Porsche Club Racing

[bmwguy]

I see Porsche Club will be allowing the Boxster 3.2S into its championship for the first time this year. ( see Porsche Club regs at: http://www.porscheclubmotorsport.co.uk/sites/defau... )

Are they going to be competitive? On paper it looks like the Boxster S ought to be able to beat the all conquering 968!! If so that would be a welcome innovation in Porsche Club racing. Might make it interesting again!!

Any views anyone?

[andy97]

Perhaps someone with more technical understanding than me can tell me if the Boxsters prepared for the BRSCC Porsche Series (http://www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk) will also be eligible for the PCGB Series without change.

Also remember that Boxsters are eligible for the CSCC's "Deutsche Marque" series of 40 minute races for one or two drivers: http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/deutschemarq...

Plenty of places to potentially race them, then.

[wildman0609]

bmwguy said:

Might make it interesting again!!

Any views anyone?

do you really mean it that it wasn't interesting last year? its one of the most exciting to watch club series in the uk. some of the closest racing you can find on uk tracks.

[bmwguy]

Sorry......I didn't mean the racing wasn't exciting! I just meant it would be nice to see some different cars mixing it at the front of the field. Those 968s are getting very long in the tooth now.

As far as I could tell from a quick glance at the regs, Porsche Club have lifted the Boxster regs straight out of the BRSCC Porsche Championship rule book, so those guys should be able to jump in with just a swap to Michelin tyres. I know where I would rather race!

[clubracing]

Interesting considering the number of Boxster race cars currently in the classifieds, might make them sell a bit quicker.

Only differences I can see are that the minimum weights are slightly higher, to bring the power to weight in line with the other cars but the Michelins are grippier than the Toyos so I would expect about the same lap times. The rollcage isnt allowed to go through the front bulkhead in the PCGB regs currently, but the control rollcage for the BRSCC series is linked to the front strut mounts. I assume they'll make an exception for the Boxster.

Edited by clubracing on Friday 7th January 01:30

[ma5da90]

1400 kilos for an '07 boxster? is that not heavier than the standard road car itself?

[wildman0609]

clubracing said:

Interesting considering the number of Boxster race cars currently in the classifieds, might make them sell a bit quicker.

Only differences I can see are that the minimum weights are slightly higher, to bring the power to weight in line with the other cars but the Michelins are grippier than the Toyos so I would expect about the same lap times. The rollcage isnt allowed to go through the front bulkhead in the PCGB regs currently, but the control rollcage for the BRSCC series is linked to the front strut mounts. I assume they'll make an exception for the Boxster.

Edited by clubracing on Friday 7th January 01:30

are you sure the michelins are grippier, I have raced on both in a 944 and will never use michelins again if i can help it, they are out of date old technology which is slow in the dry and scary in the wet. the toyo's have given a better lap time, last longer and are predictable in the wet. I know several pcgb racers which when they come race with cscc will ditch the michelins asap and get some toyo's or dunlops on.

[andy97]

ma5da90 said:

1400 kilos for an '07 boxster? is that not heavier than the standard road car itself?

987 Boxster (intro 2004) Kerb weight is 1420 Kg.

Min race series weights are:

1325 Kg (BRSCC series) & 1355 Kg (PCGB Club Series) for cars of 186-191 Kw
1365 Kg (BRSCC) & 1400 Kg (PCGB) for cars of 192-206 Kw

Should make getting down to the min weight limit easy - might not even have to remove the underseal!!!!!

clubracing said:

The rollcage isnt allowed to go through the front bulkhead in the PCGB regs currently, but the control rollcage for the BRSCC series is linked to the front strut mounts.

Is it? The diagram of the BRSCC Boxster cage is't clear to me that the front strut mounts are connected t the cage.

http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcage/LoadRollCage...

It would make sense to m for the regs to be close enough for the 2 series for people to be able to move between them. I know that isn't traditionally the way but having more places to race cars & potentially having a bigger pool of purchasers (& therefore keep residuals up a bit) might mean that there is more encouragement to build & race the cars in the first place.

Edited by andy97 on Friday 7th January 10:44

[boxsey]

bmwguy said:

Sorry......I didn't mean the racing wasn't exciting! I just meant it would be nice to see some different cars mixing it at the front of the field. Those 968s are getting very long in the tooth now.

The class 1 champions for the last 3 years were:

2008 - Ian White 964C2
2009 - Ben Demetriou 968
2010 - Marcus Carniel 964C2

So the 968s haven't had it all their own way. Both the 964 and 968 might be long in the tooth but they've both kept the younger 993s at bay over the last two seasons

I'm looking forward to seeing the boxsters involved this year and believe that the right driver in one could mixing it with the front runners

[wildman0609]

boxsey said:

I'm looking forward to seeing the boxsters involved this year and believe that the right driver in one could mixing it with the front runners

the problem will be development. its taken the 993's quite a while to become potential race winners, and the 964/968 still looked like the best bet for a championship at the end of 2010. it will take a good driver with a good preparer half a season or longer to make the car competitive, it will also take a driver with sufficient budget and patience to stick with it. the same as when 993's were introduced.

[andy97]

I agree that the 964s & 968s will have the advantage but maybe someone with experience from the BRSCC Boxster series will already have a seasons experience of the car & be able to catch up quickly?

[NJH]

The 2011 club championship is coming down to Thruxton and my other local track Combe, on the traditional August holiday weekend.

On the subject of the boxsters they may be far more competitive than many would think. Pole at Mallory for example down in the 52 seconds is certainly quick, a decent gap to any of the S2's that raced there with CSCC a month later. Also at Snett a fastest lap in the 1:19's. Nobody got under 1:20 when the club championship raced there.

[clubracing]

wildman0609 said:

are you sure the michelins are grippier, I have raced on both in a 944 and will never use michelins again if i can help it, they are out of date old technology which is slow in the dry and scary in the wet. the toyo's have given a better lap time, last longer and are predictable in the wet. I know several pcgb racers which when they come race with cscc will ditch the michelins asap and get some toyo's or dunlops on.

I've no personal experience of the Michelins but I've been told that the ultimate grip from a brand new set is greater but they don't last as long, hence why a new set is needed every meeting in Porsche club to be competitive. I thought most people switch because the Michelins are more expensive than the Toyos and the multi-car/class structure in the CSCC isn't competitive enough to need them really.

andy97 said:

987 Boxster (intro 2004) Kerb weight is 1420 Kg.

Min race series weights are:

1325 Kg (BRSCC series) & 1355 Kg (PCGB Club Series) for cars of 186-191 Kw
1365 Kg (BRSCC) & 1400 Kg (PCGB) for cars of 192-206 Kw

Should make getting down to the min weight limit easy - might not even have to remove the underseal!!!!!

clubracing said:

The rollcage isnt allowed to go through the front bulkhead in the PCGB regs currently, but the control rollcage for the BRSCC series is linked to the front strut mounts.

Is it? The diagram of the BRSCC Boxster cage is't clear to me that the front strut mounts are connected t the cage.

http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollcage/LoadRollCage...

I think that the BRSCC cars still have the underseal on them, the minimum weights are deliberately high to make them easy to build.

The triangulation ahead of the door openings on the cage is to the front strut mounts, labelled as the 'C' thickness tubing in the diagram.

[bmwguy]

The boxsters should be very competitive at Thruxton....250+ bhp and six cylinders plus a more slippery body shape than the other cars? Suspension is the same basic design as the GT3 plus they are allowing some GT3 suspension parts so they ought to be quicker through the twisty bits as well. I would like to have a go at taking Church flat in one of those.......

Checked the Custom Cages site. The roll cage does go through the bulkhead and attach to the front struts.....

http://www.customcages.co.uk/news-room/boxster-des...

[bmwguy]

Just checked the classifieds...are there any of the BRSCC boxsters which aren't for sale?

They must be a good bet for the Porsche Club though.....so people will want them. Are there any on display at Autosport?

[andy97]

bmwguy said:

Checked the Custom Cages site. The roll cage does go through the bulkhead and attach to the front struts.....

http://www.customcages.co.uk/news-room/boxster-des...

Trouble is that the PCGB Club Championship regs forbid this for all cars, so Boxsters built for the BRSCC championship regs do not seem to be legal for the PCGB series, to this non-expert person.

[bmwguy]

Thats a shame.....

Still...I suppose PCGB must have their eye set on filling their grids with BRSCC Boxsters ....so maybe they will make an exception. They need to get it in the regs though, otherwise I can see protest fees flying around after round one of the championship has finished!

[clubracing]

There is a rule in the PCGB regs that the scrutineer can waive any chassis regs for specific competitors as appropriate.

Another interesting thing is that the engine mapping is free in the PCGB as long the maximum power output reamains the same, where as it has to be completely standard in the BRSCC.

[NJH]

How would they know that? There are all sorts of old tricks such as running a 2nd ECU stuffed up under the dash etc. etc. Not to mention any number of cheeky little hidden engine mods. Porsche club get round this by power testing the cars.

[Porsche Racer]

bmwguy said:

Just checked the classifieds...are there any of the BRSCC boxsters which aren't for sale?

They must be a good bet for the Porsche Club though.....so people will want them. Are there any on display at Autosport?

You seem to be quite negative about the BRSCC championship. As someone that has been very much involved in getting the championship to where it is now, Im curious to know what you base your comments on?

Yes, there are some cars for sale. But for what its worth there is a genuinely good reason behind each one.