750MC Stock Hatch as first racing experience?

[Mike_C]

Hi all,

I am looking at going racing in the next year or two and just wanted some impartial advice on where's the best place to start.

I used to do a few trackdays in my own road cars but have moved on to motorcycles for the past 3 years and been doing trackdays on them for the last 2.

However, my competitive spirit is biting and I feel motorcycle racing is too risky (absolutely no protection if you crash!) so am looking at going back to cars for a season or 2 of racing.

So, how does the 750MC Stock Hatch Championship stack up as a 'first' series to go racing in? Obviously the main things I am looking for are:

- Low cost
- Friendly atmosphere
- Close racing

The 750MC strikes me as a friendly environment, and looking at the spec sheet on the website ( http://www.750mc.co.uk/F-stock-hatch.php ) the relatively standard engines/brakes/suspension should keep the costs down and the racing close.

So, what ya reckon? Any other series' I should look at?

Also, any idea how much a single season would cost, excluding the car? Registration is only £100 and 750MC Membership a further £50, + circa £250 for a race licence, but what can I expect to pay in terms of fuel, tyres, brakes and other consumables?

Cheers!!

Edited by Mike_C on Monday 2nd August 12:27

[CoolC]

http://www.phil-law.co.uk/pl/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi... Will be a good place to ask about costs.

From what I've seen (as a marshal) the 750MC is one of the friendliest with lots of close competitive racing. I especially enjoy the formula Vee.


Edited to fix shoddy link

Edited by CoolC on Monday 2nd August 12:01

[xr287]

I always heard stockhatch was a crashfest, however could have changed by now.

You could also look at the fiesta racing series. http://www.fordracinguk.com/fiesta.html Or maybe XR championship if you are into older cars http://www.fordracinguk.com/xr.html

[RobM77]

The MG Metro Cup is worth a look too.

[Mike_C]

I must admit, the Ford XR championship looks good - always had a soft spot for the earlier XR2's!

I assume it is better (cheaper!) to buy a car used in a previous season as it will already have all the necessities for racing - seat, harness, roll cage, fire extinguishers, etc and has passed scrutineering, so hopefully will only need consumables and possibly an engine rebuild?

How does the estimated £3,000 season cost (£4k-£5k for the Fiesta Championship) compare to the 750MC Stock Hatch Championship?

[RobM77]

Mike_C said:

I must admit, the Ford XR championship looks good - always had a soft spot for the earlier XR2's!

I assume it is better (cheaper!) to buy a car used in a previous season as it will already have all the necessities for racing - seat, harness, roll cage, fire extinguishers, etc and has passed scrutineering, so hopefully will only need consumables and possibly an engine rebuild?

It's almost always cheaper to buy a ready prepared car than to do one yourself. If I were you I'd go along to a few meetings to see what the racing's like, and maybe chat to a few people to see how friendly it is and whether they're your sort of crowd.

Mike_C said:

How does the estimated £3,000 season cost (£4k-£5k for the Fiesta Championship) compare to the 750MC Stock Hatch Championship?

I haven't raced in either, but what I'd do is download an entry form or two from the website to look at race entry fees, look at the availability and cost of spares and then look at tow car fuel, B&Bs etc. £3k seems a bit low to me for a season, but that's just me guessing.

Don't forget to include the cost of all your safety equipment (suit, helmet, boots, gloves etc). Much of it isn't obligatory, but it's only sensible to wear everything that you can. Also, watch out for the hidden cost of changing fire extinguisher, harness etc as they become out of date.

Also have a think about where you would keep the trailer, the car and when you'd work on it etc. I now do arrive and drive racing, but when I used to run my own car the overriding memory was not just the money, it was the time and hassle of working on the car constantly and towing it vast distances across the country at silly hours of the morning. I'd run my own car again, but perhaps only with a nice warm workshop and maybe even a small lorry to transport the car in

[Mike_C]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info. How does arrive and drive racing work? Perhaps that would be a better way of my getting into motor racing for my first year?

Transport is OK - my Dad has a Brian James shuttle trailer for his classic cars and we have a few cars in the family I can use to tow it with. I have storage for it at my house, or it can live in the trailer possibly.

Would be interested to know more about arrive and drive racing and how it works!

[andy97]

Mike, I've not competed in Stock hatch but it does have a reputation of being good business for panel beaters & some people are thought to be spending quite a lot of money optimising absolutely everything within the rules to max performance. I race in CSCC "Tin Tops" & this is a very novice riendly series which offers good value for money race time (40 minute races for 1 or 2 drivers with a compulsory pit stop) - we have had a number of novices start out with us & we have also had people come across that used to race in Stock Hatch....

There are threads on here about "Tin Tops" - use the Search function rather than me repeating myself but feel free to ask any questions.

Its a very friendly series with good camaraderie and driving standards.

[RobM77]

Mike_C said:

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info. How does arrive and drive racing work? Perhaps that would be a better way of my getting into motor racing for my first year?

Transport is OK - my Dad has a Brian James shuttle trailer for his classic cars and we have a few cars in the family I can use to tow it with. I have storage for it at my house, or it can live in the trailer possibly.

Would be interested to know more about arrive and drive racing and how it works!

Hi there. It sounds like you've got a reasonable setup already, which is good. I guess there's somewhere you can get the car to easily and regularly to work on it? Regular jobs include a look over before and after each race (an hour each time perhaps), and then following on from what you may find you may need to schedule a day or two's work to keep the car in good shape (plus oil changes etc of course). My Dad and I always found it was best to pre-empt problems; there's nothing worse than towing all the way from Hampshire to Snetterton only to find something basic goes wrong with the car!

Arrive and Drive is becoming more popular year on year, as it doesn't require all of the things we've discussed already - you literally just arrive at the circuit and drive. No overheads or money tied up in an asset with the car etc. Cost may be the only prohibitive thing: there are a few people out there under £1000 per race, but most average at about £1000, with things progressing towards £2000 quickly if the racing is serious and competitive. On top of that you've usually got to buy your own tyres, and of course pay for your own crash damage. Make sure that you trust the person working on the car; you need to know the brakes and suspension will work at the end of a long straight I seem to have struck gold with this, in that I've found an ex F3000 mechanic who's fastidious with his car preparation, hugely passionate and knowledgeable, and yet who doesn't charge too much. Oh, and he's also a really nice guy and has great people helping him out. Such people are rare though

With your sort of budget, I'd recommend getting along to a few race meetings this season and getting an up close look at the cars, the driving and people. Once you're sure which championship is the one for you, sign up to the club newsletter or whatever they have, and look/ask around for a car for sale. When you get the car, have a jolly good look over it (no matter how "race ready" the vendor tells you it is!), and then get two or three tests in this autumn, before starting to race either at the last race of the year, or next season.

Try and get some notes from the guy you buy the car off regarding how to look after it. For the last two race cars I've sold I've provided full notes on tyre pressures, plug gaps, valve clearances, compression to look for in the engine, suspension settings, corner weights etc etc. I've also given job sheets of things to look at after each race, as each type of racing car has its quirks.

If you'd like any advice then feel free to e-mail me. I'm not racing this year due to lack of funds so talking about it at least keeps me in touch

[Jerry Can]

RobM77 said:

Mike_C said:

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the info. How does arrive and drive racing work? Perhaps that would be a better way of my getting into motor racing for my first year?

Transport is OK - my Dad has a Brian James shuttle trailer for his classic cars and we have a few cars in the family I can use to tow it with. I have storage for it at my house, or it can live in the trailer possibly.

Would be interested to know more about arrive and drive racing and how it works!

Hi there. It sounds like you've got a reasonable setup already, which is good. I guess there's somewhere you can get the car to easily and regularly to work on it? Regular jobs include a look over before and after each race (an hour each time perhaps), and then following on from what you may find you may need to schedule a day or two's work to keep the car in good shape (plus oil changes etc of course). My Dad and I always found it was best to pre-empt problems; there's nothing worse than towing all the way from Hampshire to Snetterton only to find something basic goes wrong with the car!

Arrive and Drive is becoming more popular year on year, as it doesn't require all of the things we've discussed already - you literally just arrive at the circuit and drive. No overheads or money tied up in an asset with the car etc. Cost may be the only prohibitive thing: there are a few people out there under £1000 per race, but most average at about £1000, with things progressing towards £2000 quickly if the racing is serious and competitive. On top of that you've usually got to buy your own tyres, and of course pay for your own crash damage. Make sure that you trust the person working on the car; you need to know the brakes and suspension will work at the end of a long straight I seem to have struck gold with this, in that I've found an ex F3000 mechanic who's fastidious with his car preparation, hugely passionate and knowledgeable, and yet who doesn't charge too much. Oh, and he's also a really nice guy and has great people helping him out. Such people are rare though

With your sort of budget, I'd recommend getting along to a few race meetings this season and getting an up close look at the cars, the driving and people. Once you're sure which championship is the one for you, sign up to the club newsletter or whatever they have, and look/ask around for a car for sale. When you get the car, have a jolly good look over it (no matter how "race ready" the vendor tells you it is!), and then get two or three tests in this autumn, before starting to race either at the last race of the year, or next season.

Try and get some notes from the guy you buy the car off regarding how to look after it. For the last two race cars I've sold I've provided full notes on tyre pressures, plug gaps, valve clearances, compression to look for in the engine, suspension settings, corner weights etc etc. I've also given job sheets of things to look at after each race, as each type of racing car has its quirks.

If you'd like any advice then feel free to e-mail me. I'm not racing this year due to lack of funds so talking about it at least keeps me in touch

I've been racing in stock hatch for the last 8 years or so. It is very competitive, top 20 covered by 2 secs sometimes less. You can do a season for 3-4k but you won't be doing much winning. You can pick up a car from £1000 to £10k ( I have one a class a car for sale in the classfieds for £5k).

It is a crash fest up front, in the middle and at the back. Driving standards are terrible, and if you get in the mix you can expect at least one big smash per season. It is for this reason I have left anf gone to an arrive n drive set up in the golf gti championship. However SH must teach you something as during my first race weekend in the golfs i was under the lap record in 6 laps - and I did nothing in SH.

There is a decent amount of cheating going on, it is also a traiing ground for wannabe pros, too many 17 year old's whose racing is paid for by their dad, means a gung ho approach with no consideration for those of us who have to pay for the racing.

however the paddock is friendly, and if you can win in stock hatch you are a good driver - period. Top 20 and you are half decent.

A competitive front running season is going to cost you £15k. Top 20 mediocrity about £6-7k.

I think that's it...?

of yeah did I say I have a stock hatch racer for sale?

[Mike_C]

Interesting stuff there guys.

I think Stock Hatch is out on grounds that I don't want to be spending my time repairing my car - I just want to turn up, have fun and race, and go home - the most simple form of motorsport!

The MSV Trackday Trophy looks really interesting and is probably the most cost effective and easy entry route I've found so far. Any more info on that?

[spdpug98]

Have you thought about racing MR2's in the MR2 MK1 series through Red Dragon Race & Track Club: http://mr2racing.com/ there are a few of us on here who race in it.

I picked up my car for approx £1500 (ready to race) last winter, I had starting building one and had budgeted for approx £2500 but sold it after buying the other one

Edited for my usual terrible sppeeeling

Edited by spdpug98 on Monday 2nd August 15:37

[RobM77]

Those figures for SH sound about right. I didn't want to comment directly as I've never raced in the championship.

Regarding cheating, I've suspected it in several championships to be honest, so in defence of SH I don't think it's anything particular to that championship. If you're out on track and watch other drivers closely, it's often fairly obvious who shouldn't be that quick but actually is, or conversely if you look even closer who should be really quick but isn't! Without mentioning any names or championships, I've frequently closed a gap on someone in front of me going into, going around and coming out of a corner, only to be outpowered down the next straight and then outlapped by a whole second or two, in a car that's supposed to have the same engine as mine, or in one memorable case, supposed to have a significantly slower engine than mine! The difference between a really good driver and a poor one may be a few tenths, but a powerful engine can make a whole second's difference.

The other thing valuable that you mention in your post above is the difference in cost to being competitive or not competitive. In my championship for instance we run on slicks worth about £800 a set. I use two sets a year, but the quick guys are using a set per meeting...

Because of both these points, once I'd got settled into racing, I concentrated on finding a car that was huge fun to drive, because seemingly there's always someone with more money or cheekiness with the rules willing to beat you. With the car I currently drive, I've finally found something that I absolutely love driving, so I'm happy, even though I've never finished higher than 8th in it. I am hugely competitive, but sadly my wallet can't match that ambition, but I guess that's just racing!

[Mike_C]

Yep, and that's why the MSV championship appeals so much - a smaller grid, relative freedom on cars so less chance of cheating and a bit more variety - the classes are done on a "bhp/ton" basis, so cheating would be easy I guess, but I don't think it's the sort of series that will attract people willing to cheat in order to win.

Next step is to get my ARDS licence in the next few months, then the hunt is on for a suitable car! E36 M3 would be awesome, but I think a Saxo VTR/VTS would be a safer bet as I know quite a bit about them and used to trackday a VTS a few years back!

[RobM77]

Mike_C said:

Yep, and that's why the MSV championship appeals so much - a smaller grid, relative freedom on cars so less chance of cheating and a bit more variety - the classes are done on a "bhp/ton" basis, so cheating would be easy I guess, but I don't think it's the sort of series that will attract people willing to cheat in order to win.

Next step is to get my ARDS licence in the next few months, then the hunt is on for a suitable car! E36 M3 would be awesome, but I think a Saxo VTR/VTS would be a safer bet as I know quite a bit about them and used to trackday a VTS a few years back!

Good luck!

Personally I think FWD is probably better for learning on anyway, as it instills more confidence, whilst also requiring careful management of weight transfer and a delicate but committed touch to go truly fast in.

[Mike_C]

Jerry Can said:

of yeah did I say I have a stock hatch racer for sale?

Link??

[indigorallye]

I am in my first season of racing. Currently I trundle round at the back in the North West Sports & Saloons. Next year I am looking at doing the Tin Tops as it looks like I will have more cars in the same class.
If you need any advice from a newbie like me then just drop me an e-mail.

[Jerry Can]

Mike_C said:

Jerry Can said:

of yeah did I say I have a stock hatch racer for sale?

Link??

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1779103.htm

[Mike_C]

Jerry Can said:

Mike_C said:

Jerry Can said:

of yeah did I say I have a stock hatch racer for sale?

Link??

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1779103.htm

Thanks, will take a look. Prob a bit out of my budget, but good to see what you get for the money.

[RobM77]

If we're being open about stuff for sale then I have some brand new size 9 Momo Corse Racing Boots I'm not that keen on them, but missed the returns date for the shop, by which time I'd already bought some Stand 21 ones instead. They were £160 new and I'm open to offers. I'll post them out to anyone who wants them. Been in E-Bay twice and not sold.