Too many race series

[MG CHRIS]

Is it me or has anybody noticed there are far to many champonships in the uk we have come to the point that grid numbers haave shrunk in many race series to below 15 cars why hasnt somebody reliased that nobody wants to see only small numbers of cars going around a track. I have had a quick look at the different race series and we have over 20 champonships just for saloon cars. champonships like fiat 500, renault clio, ford fiesta just to name a few one make series ar taking entries from other series reducing numbers of racers or is it down to the reccession. I would rather see fewer champonships that have big entries 30 plus than loads of champonships with small grids 15 or less

[indigorallye]

Are the MSA to blame?
Should they stop sanctioning new championships/ series?

[spdpug98]

I think it is more that the MSA should cancel existing Championships / Series that do not have enough entries. I know that they put ‘Championships’ on warnings if they don’t have enough entries BUT even if they remove the Championship status, they can still run as a ‘Series’

I currently race in the MR2 MK1 ‘Series’ even though we usually have over 30/40 entries per meeting we are still classed as a Series, as I believe you need to run for 4 years with over 25 entries per meeting before you can be classed as a ‘Championship’ plus then you can award points

I like the idea of the LMA Saloons (although called something else this year) as you can race almost anything if it has a roof, which brings a lot of cars together which may usually race in Championship that only have 10/12 cars or even less

This has been a subject on the MSA agenda for a long time, when I raced in the Toyo Tyres Road Saloons Championship we where placed on the ‘list’ of possible down grading to a Series unless they upped the grid sizes – but this was 7/8 years ago

[RobM77]

There are two solutions to the problem - one is to bring people with diverse cars into one championship with different classes, and the other is to stop people racing so many different cars. The second solution obviously isn't really practical, especially with the limited budgets in class based racing. Regarding the first solution, many people find class based racing confusing. I've raced in two class based championships, and my friends and family have often been confused as to who's racing who and precisely what's going on. I agree with them actually, and I'd rather see 10 identical cars racing each other than 40 all in different classes. Obviously 40 identical cars is better than 10, but that's another issue altogether. I was on the committee of a class based championship once, and this frequently came up. The sad fact was that most of us were on the brink of running out of money and giving up, so we couldn't afford to revert our cars to one spec and make one class. It's a tricky problem. I think the only solution is for the MSA to somehow encourage single class championships, and when a championship is designed from scratch, design it with one class from the start.

[RogueMotorsport]

spdpug98 said:

I currently race in the MR2 MK1 ‘Series’ even though we usually have over 30/40 entries per meeting we are still classed as a Series, as I believe you need to run for 4 years with over 25 entries per meeting before you can be classed as a ‘Championship’ plus then you can award points

You do know that there already is an MR2 Championship, don't you?

http://www.mr2championship.com

[wildman0609]

some people prefer to run as a series, as there is no pressure to attend every meeting and the rules can be slightly more relaxed.

[thunderbelmont]

Going back to the OP, YES there are too many race series.

The MSA is pretty toothless when it comes to culling the dross. The best they can do is withdraw the championship permits, which to some is like the end of the world, and suggest amalgamations, which to others is like the end of the world.

The MSA can't just go "No, you ain't running that half baked insult to a race series", because someone might get upset and go whining to the European Court of Human Rights - as they're entitled to do, because minorities area always favoured over the majority, except in Belgium, or France, etc....

That's why we have 10-12car race series that should really be chopped off.

And they should go back to the blue book for our National formulae:

For saloons, it should be Prod Saloons, Mod Saloons, Special Saloons & GT
For sports - Prod Sports, Mod Sports, Special Saloons & GT
For single seaters - FF1600, F3, F2, F5000, F.Libre

Any manufacturer wanting to run a one-model series should be prepared to fully back & support it for 5 years, after that it dies and the cars run in a genre that fits them.

That way we could have full grids, local, regional, and national championships, and something that is identifiable, marketable for the media, and thus the public.

[Graham]

Playing devils advocate for a moment, does it really matter? motorsport isnt really a mass spectator sport in the uk. at anything other than f1 and btcc 90% of the spectators are there because they know the driver or the team.

So in reality the racing is for the competitors, so as long as the series/championship can cover the cost of the track time with the organising club where is the problem..

Actually that is theone thing that will cull championships with low number, when they dont cover the cost of the track time..

[indigorallye]

I have never understood why there is not a regional league type thing!
eg BARC North West Sports & Saloons v Northern Saloons v SE Tin Tops.

Or, on a similar vein, the top five from each regional series/ championship go against each other in a National final.

[Graham]

indigorallye said:

I have never understood why there is not a regional league type thing!
eg BARC North West Sports & Saloons v Northern Saloons v SE Tin Tops.

Or, on a similar vein, the top five from each regional series/ championship go against each other in a National final.

Its hard enough to put a single series together and work out the classes,and keep a resonable playing field. trying to put a level playing field together with lots of different series with different speced cars would be impossible..

[NJH]

wildman0609 said:

some people prefer to run as a series, as there is no pressure to attend every meeting and the rules can be slightly more relaxed.

I agree with this point, as a rookie I can't really commit to a whole championship just yet but a series such as the CSCC Future Classics is just right for many ppl myself included.

[thunderbelmont]

Graham said:

Playing devils advocate for a moment, does it really matter? motorsport isnt really a mass spectator sport in the uk. at anything other than f1 and btcc 90% of the spectators are there because they know the driver or the team.

So in reality the racing is for the competitors, so as long as the series/championship can cover the cost of the track time with the organising club where is the problem..

Actually that is theone thing that will cull championships with low number, when they dont cover the cost of the track time..

It isn't a mass spectator sport purely because of the way that it's run.

Clubs don't promote because they don't get the gate
Circuits don't promote because the club has gifted them a big fat cheque for doing feck all. If they promote, that needs staff, staff cost money, and it *might not* make as much easy profit.

Club motorsport WILL become more expensive if more meetings for fewer cars are run. To make it cheaper for US under the current regime, we need fewer meetings with bigger grids, and that means we need fewer championships/race series.

When the grids are full, it stands to reason that the racing should be closer, which is much more promoteable. Then, and only then, would the circuits have something to sell to the public, and it all becomes rosy in the garden.

However, while the MSA and the clubs pander to Sebastian and Tarquin's whim to pop out with a few chums in their MGC's at Thruxton, or Brands, poorly supported championships with fewer than 16 cars.

Or yet another one make droneathon procession.

People want to see "angry" cars racing close (and fair) and fast (though 2CV's are still fab!)

[wildman0609]

lets start naming and shaming

BARC Westfield championship - st 8 cars regularly - go racing with cscc mag 7's bigger grids = more fun


anyone else care to join me with naming and shaming

[BJD]

Graham said:

So in reality the racing is for the competitors, so as long as the series/championship can cover the cost of the track time with the organising club where is the problem..

Races with small grids don't cover track time costs, they get subsidised by races with healthy grids. So the general rule is that low end budget racers (strong grids) subsidise the well heeled chaps racing in a marque/era with a dozen (on a good day) of their chums. The world has gone mad :-)

[Redlake27]

Rationalising isn't possible.....

The reason is anti-competition law.

If BRSCC said they wanted to start a Saloon Car series, and BARC had one, the MSA couldn't say 'sorry, it already exists you can't do it'

Likewise, if Chevrolet wanted to launch a one make series (as they did this year - almost) , again, the MSA can't say no if Fiat, Renault, Mini etc all have series. A manufacturer could then take legal action against the governing body for being trade-restrictive.

The only people that can force championships to stop multiplying are competitors, who can vote with their entry fee.

[MG CHRIS]

wildman0609 said:

lets start naming and shaming

BARC Westfield championship - st 8 cars regularly - go racing with cscc mag 7's bigger grids = more fun


anyone else care to join me with naming and shaming

Dunlop sport maxx cup 10-12 cars and this is meant to be a proving ground for the btcc
CSL CUP 8 BMW st
Actually come to think of it the whole dunlop best of british motor race or whatever it is called apart from the minis

[andy97]

I don't think this has been updated for a while, & there are some inaccuracies, but this shows the state of many series:

http://www.oddballracing.com/uk_motorsport_grid_si...

Edited by andy97 on Thursday 5th August 09:01

[micron750]

MG CHRIS said:

wildman0609 said:

lets start naming and shaming

BARC Westfield championship - st 8 cars regularly - go racing with cscc mag 7's bigger grids = more fun


anyone else care to join me with naming and shaming

Dunlop sport maxx cup 10-12 cars and this is meant to be a proving ground for the btcc
CSL CUP 8 BMW st
Actually come to think of it the whole dunlop best of british motor race or whatever it is called apart from the minis

It was the same last year BUT as usual BARC did bugger all about it so to add Young Guns to the package with just 6 cars was bloody madness!!

The MSA must bring in the rule if you can't muster 15 cars then the Series/championship should be yellow carded in the first year if this doesn't change its RED carded end of, the Great and British is the prime example of flogging a dead horse

[dsl2]

I think you will find that the Radical Club cup has fielded well in excess of 20 cars at all Great & British rounds, with the exception of Pembrey for all the usual reasons!

[wildman0609]

i think on the dunlop g + b package the only small grids are sport maxx, which is a shame because there is some great racing between the cars which are there.

forgot about csl cup.

waste of time, if you have an m3 race it in another series there are plenty of them. csl cup is a joke.