Scrutineers Check List

Scrutineers Check List

Author
Discussion

indigorallye

Original Poster:

555 posts

230 months

Friday 26th March 2010
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Is there anywhere that I can download a scrutineers check list?
Not eligibility, just what they will be looking for on a saloon race car, and how they carry out the checks.

jpivey

572 posts

223 months

Friday 26th March 2010
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I have always found it's down to each Scrutineer what there pet thing is amazing how my car could have been scrutineered ten times then at the next race they find something that have never been mentioned before, i love the one's that check wheels nuts with there fingers!!! My cars are always 100% but i surpose there are plenty that never check there car at all...

spdpug98

1,551 posts

227 months

Friday 26th March 2010
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jpivey said:
I have always found it's down to each Scrutineer
I raced my Peugeot 205 which had a fully welded in cage for about 5 years and never ever had the welding on my rollcage mentioned/discussed, then one day at Silverstone a scrutineer decided to tell me that the welding looked rough and that all the welds on the cage should be removed and the cage re-welded!!!!

It was never mentioned again, by anyone else, as of course there was nothing wrong with it

But usually they tend to check – seats / seat belts / battery securely fastened / lights / extinguisher / cut out switch – pull cord / but then again they sometimes check everything

roddo

570 posts

200 months

Friday 26th March 2010
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Not forgetting your race suite and helmet

refoman2

266 posts

196 months

Saturday 27th March 2010
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im sure there is set list of things they are meant to check but a lot of it is down too is the car known by the circuit scrutineers,do you know any of the scrutineers? does it look like a wreck??

i raced in the 750mc stock hatch series a few years with the same scrutineers at every round and the car would routinely pass with no problems until one day,the same guy who passed the car at the previous round decided to fail it on the seat mountings!!!! if you ask me most scrutineers along with a lot of other officialdom are doing it for nothing more than a power trip with the abilitly to ruin someones day!



teamHOLDENracing

5,089 posts

272 months

Saturday 27th March 2010
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I disagree. The vast majority of scrutes I have come across have been entirely reasonable and sensible. They are there wanting to pass cars not fail them. You often see cars being rolled off trailers and into scrutineering and you just know it's not been off the trailer and checked since the last race. There are some dreadful sheds out there and if you pitch up to scrutineering with a dirty, apparently uncared for car, don't be surprised if they do extra checks

it can be frustrating if one comes up with something new that's not been picked up on before, but j usually find a reasonable discussion resolves things. If it's something that will genuinely improve safety then make the change before the next race

stacy

182 posts

276 months

Saturday 27th March 2010
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Hi,

We have a series of checklists in Excel - pre event, pre scrut, pre qual, pre race, post race. The pre scrut is a summary of pre event checks and just rechecks;

Emergency pulls full and free, and engine cuts out
seat secure
harness secure, not twisted and clean. split pins installed.
brake lights
rain lights
wipers (if it looks wet)
fire extinguisher charged
battery charged and jump battery installed (in case they want us to fire it up)
wheels torqued (sillier things have happened)
overalls and helmet in car
sign on slip in car

That's what'll get checked every time, but I've also seen adhoc checks on scrut faves (not us fortunately) including;

oil fed guages without metal braid - no race
seat mounts not solid - seat moves around - no race
didn't like a door bar and wanted it removed (they angle ground it off. nice..)
various moans about cages - usually come to nowt and a misunderstanding on legal design.
tyres poking out from arches
belts coming out of the seat back at the wrong angle
belt eyelets not reinforced with the correct sized plates
alloy wheel nuts (actually i did get pinged with those)
holes in the bulkheads (actually i did get pinged on that too, as a rubber grommet had come adrift).

basically a random selection from the blue book general regulations.

I agree that scruts are almost always enthusiasts, otherwise why give up their time for a thankless job. Very occasionally there is the odd one insistent on finding /something/ and/or enjoying the temporary authority a bit too much, but that's an extreme minority (2-3 in 10 years of racing) - most want to help and who wouldn't want to learn if it's valid.

One took so long trying to find something wrong when he did finally give up and write out the ticket I asked him if it was valid for 12 months.. He had the good grace to smile. ;-)

S.



stacy

182 posts

276 months

Saturday 27th March 2010
quotequote all
as mentioned, this is our list - often the buckles can get caught in the seat holes, and we run a hans. We also have holes for the belts.

S.

indigorallye

Original Poster:

555 posts

230 months

Sunday 28th March 2010
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Thanks guys. It passed scrutineering yesterday which was a relief. I think i was more nervous about that than my first race!
I do think that there maybe some items within the car which a different scrutineer may have picked up on, such as a rubber boot over the positive terminal. Therefore I will be rectifying them very soon, and certainly before my next race.

FlyInMySoup

81 posts

189 months

Sunday 28th March 2010
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Spoke to you briefly in the holding area after 2nd qualifying, you looked a little (understandably!) shell shocked. Hope you had a good race and enjoyed it in the end.

indigorallye

Original Poster:

555 posts

230 months

Sunday 28th March 2010
quotequote all
It was good to talk to you. I was shell shocked but I thankfully enjoyed it in the end. It's a shame my engine let go (suspected head gasket) on the first lap of race two.

bucksmanuk

2,320 posts

175 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
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Holy thread resurrection Batman…

Scrutineer check list

All these are SAFETY related – nothing to do with technical compliance/”cheating”.

Working round the car – in the order I do things…

• Do you have the signing on sheet to prove that you have signed on and allowed to compete?
• Does the number on the signing on sheet match the number on the car?
• Are there numbers on the car?
• Do the numbers on the car match each other?

Inside the car
• Is the seat securely mounted, and doesn’t rock about when firmly pushed?
• Are the floor mounts in good condition – some GT3’s had a real problem in the floor with the rear seat mounts some time ago. The largest crack seen was 7 inches long.
• Does it look like it’s the correct seat for the car, suitable construction - FIA spec if appropriate, and in date?
• Are all the harness points secure and at appropriate angles?
• Are the belts in date, and a matching set? Be prepared for some discussion if they don’t match.
• If Hans belts are fitted, remember to take your Hans device with you to scrutineering. Is it a correct Hans device? – Pirate ones are now on the market.
• Is the brake pedal solid?
• Is the steering lock inoperative? If it still works, you will be asked to prove you drove the car to the circuit, so it must be taxed and have an MOT. Be prepared to prove this.
• Are any video cameras fitted and secure? Do NOT fit the video camera AFTER scrutineering. That’s a post-race inspection fail.

Roll cage
• Does it look like a correct cage from the usual suppliers, and the right fit for the car?
• Is it of suitable construction, layout, decent welding and installation, correct size tubes? How we check the thickness is another matter.
• Are the mounting plates the correct size/thickness?
• Are the correct bolts used?
• Is there padding used on the cage, is it securely mounted and of the correct type?

Side of the car
• Do the tyres stick out past the bodywork more than 90 degrees of circumference? Hmm….
• Does the car rock on the wheel bearings, indicating they are worn, common on old cars.
• Are all the spokes tight and ring when dragging a plastic pen over them?
• Are the wheel nuts on tight? Although how you check they are torqued up is for others.
• If tinted windows are fitted - Can you see how many fingers someone is sticking up at you through both side windows? A real sticking point today.

Front of the car
• Is the towing eye visible and obvious to the recovery crew? If not make sure the arrow at least points to the area/eye underneath the car where it can be attached. It will be in a contrasting colour too. Also make sure it’s SECURELY mounted. It really hacks off the marshals when the towing eye gets ripped off at the first towing attempt. I have seen 2 complete bumper assemblies ripped off this year alone due to incorrectly mounted towing eyes.
• Are headlights fitted correctly to the car?
• Do the tapes that go over headlights attach to the bodywork? (Very common fail)
• Are bonnet pins fitted?
• Do the cracks on the windscreen come through the laminate to the inside glass of the screen?
• Do the wipers work?

Under the bonnet
• Is the oil catch tank the correct size for the engine? (another common fail)
• Are all fluid containers securely mounted with tops securely fitted?
• Is there actually brake fluid in the reservoirs?
• Is the battery securely mounted?
• Is the live terminal on the battery covered? (another common fail)
• Does the throttle actuation operate freely, not go over centre, and be fully capable of returning ALL throttle linkages to their shut position? Common fail on big multiple Weber setups and V12 Jags
• No oil, water, brake fluid leaks?
• Is the seal in place between the bonnet and the lip on the bulkhead?
• Can I see daylight through the fireproof front bulkhead? – 20% of cars inspected get warnings about this at every meeting. The most warnings I have given to same car in one season on this is 7 (yes SEVEN!)

On top of the bonnet
• Are there stickers indicating which is the master cut out switch and the fire extinguisher pull?
• Is the fire extinguisher pull fitted OUTSIDE the car actually connected to the fire extinguisher INSIDE the car? Yes… really….rolleyes

Back inside the car
• Is the fire extinguisher securely mounted?
• Is the fire extinguisher all correct?
• Are the fuel lines inside the car, and if so, are they the correct type, in an appropriate position, and securely located?

In the boot/rear of the car
• Is the towing eye visible and obvious to the recovery crew?
• Is the fuel tank securely mounted, and all the associated hardware? –pumps, filters, lines.. Etc.…
• Does the venting system layout work? I saw a freshly prepped almost new Aston turn into a BBQ because the team had messed around with the venting system…
• Non return valve fitted? (we’ll assume it works)
• If a bag tank, do all the numbers work accordingly (in date etc...?)
• Is there daylight through the fireproof rear bulkhead? – see above…
• Wiring all neatly clipped in position, and not likely to come into contact with fuel lines?

Checks
• Do the lights work, rear, brake, wet weather (fog)?
• Do they all work with the engine running?
• Does the master switch function and kill ALL the electrics – this is the biggie – there is NO compromise on this at all EVER! Any scrutineer letting cars go through with this fault won’t be a scrutineer much longer. As an ex marshal who has operated a kill switch on a car beginning to catch fire, and the master switch didn’t keep the fuel pump from running - this is a very real issue for me.
• Is the race suit in date and of suitable construction? Thankfully we don’t have to check underwear…. yet….
• Is it clean (read oil free) and free from rips and tears?
• Is the fancy CNC embroidery on the suit Nomex thread? And if not, check that it hasn’t come through to the inside of the suit.
• Are the gloves and boots of the correct specification, free from holes/defects?
• Is the helmet suitable, legal (pirate ones are now on the market) and not suffering from undue damage/deep scratches etc.…?


This is just for a normal type saloon, and is by no means complete; there can be more if the scrutineer wishes it to be so. Single seaters have more/different checks again.
For all of the above I get 6 minutes to check each car. Older cars, that we don’t see very often, this may be increased to 10. This is assuming that there are no problems with the car itself. There are certain chiefs who will kick you off the team if your average creeps up past 6 minutes too often.
In 15 years of scrutineering I have personally “failed” cars on EVERY single one of the above.
Note- although I do “fail” cars, I’m not the one who says you can’t compete. From me it goes to the chief, if the chief is in agreement with me, it goes to the Clerk of the Course, and if they are in agreement with the chief, the Clerk excludes the competitor. It is rare though…

Let’s not get started on eligibility checks…

I would just like to add one extra bit to this…

At a big meeting (250 cars plus), statistically at least one car will be blitzed, and come back on the transporter in many pieces. It’s a genuinely sad sight. Hopefully the driver is up on their feet, all tickety boo and just trying to come down from the adrenalin rush. So at a meeting 1 in 250 cars is knackered.
If someone competes in a championship, which could be 10 races a year, the statistical likelihood is they could compete for 20+ years and never have a big crash in that time. A scrutineer usually sees the remnants of a big crash each time they go to a circuit, and that’s what makes us sensitive to all of the above.

Once a season, on average, it’s a LOT worse than just a damaged car/ego and some mild concussion. An accident report will be requested from the Clerk of the Course, and that’s when the headaches start. Chiefs do have to go to coroner’s courts.

I can’t speak for all, but many of us compete and have competed in the past, (in my case road rallies) and we know just how much blood, sweat, tears and MONEY goes into prepping a car. I am sorry to say , we see a number of competitors who have spent a fortune of engines, drive train, paint jobs, brakes, tyres et al, but then use incorrect fuel hose, out of date belts etc.… it just seems lots is spent on looking good and going fast, but not enough (in my eyes) on the “what-ifs”.
If I get more racing funds in the future, I’ll be back out there.

If you think scrutineers are being petty (and some are- no-one is perfect), then please ask to spend half a day of your time in the scrutineering bay watching, hearing and learning - we will be genuinely happy to see you there. Bring Hob-Nobs though.

Be civil to us and we’ll be more than happy to be civil back.

I hope this has helped someone and provokes further discussion.

stuartj

110 posts

200 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
quotequote all
What an excellent post, thank you BucksmanUK.

I have raced for 26 years and have always found the ‘Be civil to us and we’ll be more than happy to be civil back’ attitude applies to almost all scrutineers.

I have in that time been picked up on a few minor points, but all have been sensibly resolved on the day and permanently fixed for the next race…..but if you check your car against the BucksmanUK list, you should have few safety scrutineering problems.

Tanuki

108 posts

210 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
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That really is an entertaining, enlightening and informative post.

Thanks for that.

Mark Benson

7,687 posts

274 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
quotequote all
bucksmanuk said:
Be civil to us and we’ll be more than happy to be civil back.
Good post (in it's entirety) but the above is worth singling out.

Being civil to all the officials at the circuit nearly always pays dividends. Contrary to what some believe, they're not there to make drivers' lives difficult and can be very enabling if you have a problem.

spikey78

701 posts

186 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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Smart arse scrutineers are one of the things which made me virtually pack up racing.. Obviously not all are the same but I couldn't help feeling that some are on some kind of mission to prove how clever and important they are
Don't misunderstand me-I absolutely understand that they, along with the other officials are vital to any meeting and I was always friendly, helpful, respectful etc and yet, and yet there is this bizarre 'i am considerably more cleverer than yow' attitude displayed!
For info i raced and prepared my own cars, built and prepared cars for others for 20 odd years. My cars were always scrupulously clean and well presented and even won a couple of awards for best prepared and i think actually 'failed'scrutineering twice out of literally hundreds of times and yet still I'd get this nonsense.
I invested a considerable amount of time and money on what is just a hobby, I don't need this st! Whilst it's not the only reason my car just sits in the garage now, and the racetruck is sold, it certainly helped me lose the love for MSA racing

bucksmanuk

2,320 posts

175 months

Friday 11th September 2015
quotequote all
^^^^^^^
Ok I’ll bite….
Did you take up your concerns about the scrutineer’s “holier than thou” attitude with the Chief or the Clerk?
Did you ask the scrutineer concerned why he/she had that attitude or ask them to prove what they said?
As above - Did you spend any of your own time one day just watching what went on in the bay understanding the due process of motor sport from the other side? My first few meetings at the scrutineering game were a real eye opener. I too used to wonder what my road rally car was going to fail on this time on– only once though!
Don't worry – with the current age range of today’s scrutineers and an almost total lack of youngsters coming in at the bottom, there ‘ll hardly be any one left to inspect the cars at all in a few years.
There is discussion ongoing NOW that competitor safety self-certification is the way to go, and I’ll leave it up to others where they think that will end up.

BertBert

19,475 posts

216 months

Friday 11th September 2015
quotequote all
It's always going to be a bit thankless as the scruts are finding "fault" and there's always the things that come in debate or seem a bit trivial or even mistakes made.

So my MSVR badge that JP asked me to wear was dutifully sewn on by my wife with some nomex thread we have, but caused the debate - is it or isn't it. Off to see boss scrut, faff, debate, faff. Eventually ok. So what do I think? Bit of a pain but done for safety reasons.

The belts being a set is also an interesting one. I have new belts with different dates on the shoulders, apparently not a set, got let out but I had to do a lot of faffing with Schroth in Germany to get sent shoulders of the same date. But in fact the newer dated shoulders were ok.

So all in all seems ok to me, good job done.

What qualifications are needed? I wouldn't mind getting my own back. Whoops I mean having a go biggrin

indigorallye

Original Poster:

555 posts

230 months

Friday 11th September 2015
quotequote all
Great thread resurrection, with a great informative post.

NJH

3,021 posts

214 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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Thanks bucksmanuk

Couple of questions though, I didn't think we have general rulings here that date seats and suits for circuit racing. Some series/championship regs quote current FIA homologated seating others don't say anything. The FIA standard quoted for suits I believe runs through next year then who knows as reading the FIA regs indicates that practically any suit model will require re-submitting (surprised this question/point hasn't been raised on here yet but heho this thread is as good as any).

This is the text at section 6 of the FIA Homologation Regulations for Safety Equipment e.g. 8856-2000, available from (http://www.fia.com/homologations):

All equipment which has been homologated before 01.01.2013 will be homologated until 2017. After this date, the manufacturer shall decide whether or not it wishes to submit the equipment to the FIA for re-homologation. If they do, they must submit the re-homologation request in the same calendar month as the original date of homologation (e.g. a piece of equipment originally homologated on 1 January 2010 must be submitted for re-homologation in January 2017). All safety equipment homologated after 01.01.2013 shall have a homologation validity of 5 years.