Towing after 1997
Discussion
I missed out on entitlement by a few month's
(I'm sure this topic will have been covered before)
1)It's my undestanding that I can drive and tow combined up to 3.5 tonne?
As long as the towing vechicle is heavier than the trailer and mass on it? (I know there is a ratio!)
2)Or Can I not tow at all?
(I have had a quick read of the website) I think my first point is correct.
i.e.
So my 4wd at 1.8ish tonne kurb weight,
should pull trailer with (v light car on it) of 1.5 tonne combined
which equals 3.2 tonne plus maybe a couple hundred kg of kit,driver etc.. so 3.4 tonne! all in
NEXT
If I do I need to take a test (which is a bit confusing because I read it's based on a lorry test) well if it doesnt add lorry entiltlement, just the right to tow with car why is that?
or does it allow me to drive 7.5 tonne too?
I just want the simplist cheapest test to tow a car and trailer combo! (obviously there must be a limit anyway to weight - because not many towing (cars) vehicles would be heavy enough to tow crazy weight any way!
So do I do a course, then take a test at a seperate exam centre?
or is it a day course with a bit of training then a quick exam in the car park? - like the ards course(more of a compentency attendance thing?)
Any recommendations of training/exam school for simple people Northant's way and Ideas of cost would be handy - the internet is great but throws up all kinds of wonderful info.
Thanks
(I have towed lots in the past, all sorts of things and was only made aware of this recently)
(I'm sure this topic will have been covered before)
1)It's my undestanding that I can drive and tow combined up to 3.5 tonne?
As long as the towing vechicle is heavier than the trailer and mass on it? (I know there is a ratio!)
2)Or Can I not tow at all?
(I have had a quick read of the website) I think my first point is correct.
i.e.
So my 4wd at 1.8ish tonne kurb weight,
should pull trailer with (v light car on it) of 1.5 tonne combined
which equals 3.2 tonne plus maybe a couple hundred kg of kit,driver etc.. so 3.4 tonne! all in
NEXT
If I do I need to take a test (which is a bit confusing because I read it's based on a lorry test) well if it doesnt add lorry entiltlement, just the right to tow with car why is that?
or does it allow me to drive 7.5 tonne too?
I just want the simplist cheapest test to tow a car and trailer combo! (obviously there must be a limit anyway to weight - because not many towing (cars) vehicles would be heavy enough to tow crazy weight any way!
So do I do a course, then take a test at a seperate exam centre?
or is it a day course with a bit of training then a quick exam in the car park? - like the ards course(more of a compentency attendance thing?)
Any recommendations of training/exam school for simple people Northant's way and Ideas of cost would be handy - the internet is great but throws up all kinds of wonderful info.
Thanks
(I have towed lots in the past, all sorts of things and was only made aware of this recently)
I've just done all this, lessons and test etc.
This is what my test centre says:- 'A car with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a maximum authorised mass of 2 tonnes towing a trailer with a maximum authorised mass of 1.25 tonnes could be driven under category B entitlement as the maximum authorised mass of both is not more than 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer is not more than the unladen weight of the car'.
I needed to be able to tow a car on trailer with a van so decided to do the test.
I did a a course at a centre followed by a test. You do it in a van towing a box trailer. 8 hours on one day, then 4 hours plus a test on another day. £750 all in. It is a difficult test to be honest. It's like an advanced version of a car test with extras. 1.5 hour test in total. At the centre, 10 mins technical questions, reversing test then emergency stop, an hour and a bit out on the road, then back to the centre for an uncoupling and recoupling test.
Basicaly a complete b
d. I think you are allowed 14 minor faults, but it is very, very easy to get a major.
I managed to pass with only 4 minors but would still consider myself lucky. It only entitles me to drive with a trailer eventhough it is a harder test then for a massive lorry. Also worth mentioning, is that you can only practise provisionally with someone who has passed this test, even if they themselves are allowed to tow a trailer because they passed before 97.
Hope that helps.
This is what my test centre says:- 'A car with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a maximum authorised mass of 2 tonnes towing a trailer with a maximum authorised mass of 1.25 tonnes could be driven under category B entitlement as the maximum authorised mass of both is not more than 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer is not more than the unladen weight of the car'.
I needed to be able to tow a car on trailer with a van so decided to do the test.
I did a a course at a centre followed by a test. You do it in a van towing a box trailer. 8 hours on one day, then 4 hours plus a test on another day. £750 all in. It is a difficult test to be honest. It's like an advanced version of a car test with extras. 1.5 hour test in total. At the centre, 10 mins technical questions, reversing test then emergency stop, an hour and a bit out on the road, then back to the centre for an uncoupling and recoupling test.
Basicaly a complete b
d. I think you are allowed 14 minor faults, but it is very, very easy to get a major.I managed to pass with only 4 minors but would still consider myself lucky. It only entitles me to drive with a trailer eventhough it is a harder test then for a massive lorry. Also worth mentioning, is that you can only practise provisionally with someone who has passed this test, even if they themselves are allowed to tow a trailer because they passed before 97.
Hope that helps.
Edited by jamwill79 on Saturday 6th February 17:03
jamwill79 said:
I've just done all this, lessons and test etc.
I did a a course at a centre followed by a test. You do it in a van towing a box trailer. 8 hours on one day, then 4 hours plus a test on another day. £750 all in. It is a difficult test to be honest. It's like an advanced version of a car test with extras. 1.5 hour test in total. At the centre, 10 mins technical questions, reversing test then emergency stop, an hour and a bit out on the road, then back to the centre for an uncoupling and recoupling test.
Basicaly a complete bd. I think you are allowed 14 minor faults, but it is very, very easy to get a major.
I managed to pass with only 4 minors but would still consider myself lucky. It only entitles me to drive with a trailer eventhough it is a harder test then for a massive lorry. Also worth mentioning, is that you can only practise provisionally with someone who has passed this test, even if they themselves are allowed to tow a trailer because they passed before 97.
Hope that helps.
It sounds the same as the HGV test but in a smaller vehicle but how is it a harder test than if you were in a massive lorry?I did a a course at a centre followed by a test. You do it in a van towing a box trailer. 8 hours on one day, then 4 hours plus a test on another day. £750 all in. It is a difficult test to be honest. It's like an advanced version of a car test with extras. 1.5 hour test in total. At the centre, 10 mins technical questions, reversing test then emergency stop, an hour and a bit out on the road, then back to the centre for an uncoupling and recoupling test.
Basicaly a complete b
d. I think you are allowed 14 minor faults, but it is very, very easy to get a major.I managed to pass with only 4 minors but would still consider myself lucky. It only entitles me to drive with a trailer eventhough it is a harder test then for a massive lorry. Also worth mentioning, is that you can only practise provisionally with someone who has passed this test, even if they themselves are allowed to tow a trailer because they passed before 97.
Hope that helps.
Well, I believe the test is slightly longer, which obviously allows for more potential mistakes. You also have the uncoupling/recoupling part, which is additional to the lorry test, i.e even more chance of making a mistake. Then there is also the fact that you have to do all the safety checks for both the towing vehicle and the trailer.
Ok (I actually purchased my van) trailer with the 3.5t rule in mind with the correct ratio for the towing vehicle in relation to the trailer etc... SO will get to the weigh bridge before I decide to do the test @£750.
I'm not to worried about towing in practice - would have to brush up a bit and maybe learn some of the theory.
Sounds like a pain in the ass though - towed with a van and trailer for several years before finding this out, and did my IAM test not long ago, obviously my previous employeer was not aware of this either.
Thanks guys
I'm not to worried about towing in practice - would have to brush up a bit and maybe learn some of the theory.
Sounds like a pain in the ass though - towed with a van and trailer for several years before finding this out, and did my IAM test not long ago, obviously my previous employeer was not aware of this either.
Thanks guys
Stig,
It's worth bearing in mind that it is the MAM of the trailer that must be less than the unladened weight of the car.
The MAM is the Maximum Authorised Mass - so what the trailer constructor deemed the maximum trailer could weigh including the weight of its load.
A car trailer such as Brian James etc would typically have a MAM of 1800KG - therefore you could not tow it even if it was empty!
One option is to find out what the maximum weight of your trailer will be once you have loaded your race car on and down plate the trailer to that weight.
Dan
(edited to explain MAM)
It's worth bearing in mind that it is the MAM of the trailer that must be less than the unladened weight of the car.
The MAM is the Maximum Authorised Mass - so what the trailer constructor deemed the maximum trailer could weigh including the weight of its load.
A car trailer such as Brian James etc would typically have a MAM of 1800KG - therefore you could not tow it even if it was empty!
One option is to find out what the maximum weight of your trailer will be once you have loaded your race car on and down plate the trailer to that weight.
Dan
(edited to explain MAM)
Edited by spcmarine on Sunday 7th February 16:33
Yep it is the MAM that counts. A friend of mine was done on the M5 last year for no Tacho which follows similar rules (though only applies to business uses) and although the trailer he was using was empty at the time of the offence and his overall weight was miles under the limit yet it had a MAM that took the outfit over 3500kgs.
I planned to plate the trailer up to match the maxium 80 percent ratio of kerb weight of the towing vehicle 1800 kg ish (4wd van) so mam of trailer will be about 1440kg should be enough.
Despite the fact the trailer could carry almost 2tonne and will weigh about 700/800kg so would be a long way over my licence entitlement and towing capability of my van - if it is plated up as was intended.
(why does the plate not just show the stock max capacity of the trialer as is? Rather than down grading the mam of the trailer?)
Surely the police could establish via your driving licence and weigh bridge if you are over your entitlement, what difference does actually make having a trailer capable of carrying more , if your not actually carring that combined mam - means your well within the safe limits of the trailer yes no yes? (or is it because the brakes are not set up for a lighter load?)
I Will allow a payload in the van of about 300kg - so may have to carry half a tank of diesel etc.. but should have the combined under 3.5tonne.
If not will have to take the dreaded test (yet another one)
- It would Perhaps be more cost effective to just move abroad where the sun is always shinning, where I suspect the road laws are bit more relaxed.
I thought you could only tow 80 per cent of the kurb weight of the towing vehicle any way? - obvioulsy using a braked trailer!
(all this dribble does complicate things some what)
Fortunately the race car only weighs about 400kg (which should allow trailer + plus race car + 200kg of kit = mam ) or if I can exceed 80 percent of kerb weight of towing vehicle then maybe I could up the mam of the trailer 100kg and lose 100kg from pay load in van - enough to carry some jerry cans full of fuel or other kit..
Any way I think I have the idea - (I understand the idea for restricitng licenses but I would have thought any one attempting to tow, would have the self confidence and ability,(maybe not) it is a shame to restrict the capable for the minority of idiots,then make it such a hassle to get the pass - whats wrong with a motorbike cbt style test, after all it's only an add on to what we can already do)
Infact what does the test allow the individual to tow? up to 7.5 tonne combined if the towing vehicle is capable,no? does it add 7.5 tonne lorry entitlement?
Sorry to be a tad negative - nearly testing time lots to do!
Despite the fact the trailer could carry almost 2tonne and will weigh about 700/800kg so would be a long way over my licence entitlement and towing capability of my van - if it is plated up as was intended.
(why does the plate not just show the stock max capacity of the trialer as is? Rather than down grading the mam of the trailer?)
Surely the police could establish via your driving licence and weigh bridge if you are over your entitlement, what difference does actually make having a trailer capable of carrying more , if your not actually carring that combined mam - means your well within the safe limits of the trailer yes no yes? (or is it because the brakes are not set up for a lighter load?)
I Will allow a payload in the van of about 300kg - so may have to carry half a tank of diesel etc.. but should have the combined under 3.5tonne.
If not will have to take the dreaded test (yet another one)
- It would Perhaps be more cost effective to just move abroad where the sun is always shinning, where I suspect the road laws are bit more relaxed.
I thought you could only tow 80 per cent of the kurb weight of the towing vehicle any way? - obvioulsy using a braked trailer!
(all this dribble does complicate things some what)
Fortunately the race car only weighs about 400kg (which should allow trailer + plus race car + 200kg of kit = mam ) or if I can exceed 80 percent of kerb weight of towing vehicle then maybe I could up the mam of the trailer 100kg and lose 100kg from pay load in van - enough to carry some jerry cans full of fuel or other kit..
Any way I think I have the idea - (I understand the idea for restricitng licenses but I would have thought any one attempting to tow, would have the self confidence and ability,(maybe not) it is a shame to restrict the capable for the minority of idiots,then make it such a hassle to get the pass - whats wrong with a motorbike cbt style test, after all it's only an add on to what we can already do)
Infact what does the test allow the individual to tow? up to 7.5 tonne combined if the towing vehicle is capable,no? does it add 7.5 tonne lorry entitlement?
Sorry to be a tad negative - nearly testing time lots to do!
The Real Stig said:
If not will have to take the dreaded test (yet another one)
- It would Perhaps be more cost effective to just move abroad where the sun is always shinning, where I suspect the road laws are bit more relaxed.
.....
Infact what does the test allow the individual to tow? up to 7.5 tonne combined if the towing vehicle is capable,no? does it add 7.5 tonne lorry entitlement?
I believe the new licence categories were brought in to bring the UK in line with EU laws, so maybe some non European sunshine would suit better. - It would Perhaps be more cost effective to just move abroad where the sun is always shinning, where I suspect the road laws are bit more relaxed.
.....
Infact what does the test allow the individual to tow? up to 7.5 tonne combined if the towing vehicle is capable,no? does it add 7.5 tonne lorry entitlement?
Test doesn't add the 7.5 tonne entitlement. As for what you can tow, IIRC from doing the test there is no defined limit within the licence of what weight trailer you can tow, simply what your tow vehicle (up to 3.5tonne) is rated to tow.
Your earlier post said £750 for the test ? What does that consist of? I sat mine last June, for £450 that included the circa £115 test fee and usage of the firms Nissan X Trail & box trailer. The course was over 2.5 days with the final afternoon for the test. There was me and another chap - we took turns driving, actually sitting in the back listening to the instructor was more helpful than you'd think. You learn from each others mistakes.
Edited by BMR on Sunday 7th February 20:12
My wife has taken the test (I am old enough not to need to!) but as I recall it cost her about £600 and that included the test and about 5 or 6 lessons in the weeks leading up to it and all the use of the appropriate car and trailer etc.
BTW if you do the test I would recommend taking at least a couple of lessons first as it is worth brushing up a bit on the general driving test skills before the test. The actual towing bit is a piece of cake.
BTW if you do the test I would recommend taking at least a couple of lessons first as it is worth brushing up a bit on the general driving test skills before the test. The actual towing bit is a piece of cake.
The MAM of the trailer (IE what the plate says) must be less than the unladen weight of the tow car. AND the MAM of the tow car & trailer together must be less than 3.5 ton. Unless the laden trailer weighs less than 750Kg.
Therefore, generally, you can not tow a car trailer behind a van as the gross weight (or MAM) of the van is probably at least 2.5 tons & your trailer won't come in any much lower than that.
The actual weight of the van and trailer at the time is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer's plate says.
There is no 80% rule. I believe this is a recommendation by the caravan club & has no standing in law.
The only way round doing the test is to tow something like a 7 on a light trailer behind something approx focus sized. ie if the unladen weight of the car is 1500kg & the maximum weight of the car is 2000Kg then you could tow a 1500Kg trailer behind it (ie less than the unladen car & 1500Kg + 2000Kg (max laden weights) is no more than 3500Kg. I did this briefly before I passed the test & it isn't fun & the prospect of trying stop that light a car with a trailer weighing more or less the same is somewhat scary.
Or. Just do the test, cost a couple of hundred quid, dead easy. You can then tow a much safer setup & never have to worry about it again.
Pete
Therefore, generally, you can not tow a car trailer behind a van as the gross weight (or MAM) of the van is probably at least 2.5 tons & your trailer won't come in any much lower than that.
The actual weight of the van and trailer at the time is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer's plate says.
There is no 80% rule. I believe this is a recommendation by the caravan club & has no standing in law.
The only way round doing the test is to tow something like a 7 on a light trailer behind something approx focus sized. ie if the unladen weight of the car is 1500kg & the maximum weight of the car is 2000Kg then you could tow a 1500Kg trailer behind it (ie less than the unladen car & 1500Kg + 2000Kg (max laden weights) is no more than 3500Kg. I did this briefly before I passed the test & it isn't fun & the prospect of trying stop that light a car with a trailer weighing more or less the same is somewhat scary.
Or. Just do the test, cost a couple of hundred quid, dead easy. You can then tow a much safer setup & never have to worry about it again.
Pete
pistol pete said:
Therefore, generally, you can not tow a car trailer behind a van as the gross weight (or MAM) of the van is probably at least 2.5 tons & your trailer won't come in any much lower than that.
Pete
Most Brian James-style trailers weigh around 400kg - if you have something like an A4 estate it will weigh around 1500kg unladen so you can tow up to about a ton behind it...Pete
Having done lots of trailer-ing with estates and Se7ens/cars behind, its never been a problem?
pistol pete said:
The MAM of the trailer (IE what the plate says) must be less than the unladen weight of the tow car. AND the MAM of the tow car & trailer together must be less than 3.5 ton. Unless the laden trailer weighs less than 750Kg.
Therefore, generally, you can not tow a car trailer behind a van as the gross weight (or MAM) of the van is probably at least 2.5 tons & your trailer won't come in any much lower than that.
The actual weight of the van and trailer at the time is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer's plate says.
There is no 80% rule. I believe this is a recommendation by the caravan club & has no standing in law.
The only way round doing the test is to tow something like a 7 on a light trailer behind something approx focus sized. ie if the unladen weight of the car is 1500kg & the maximum weight of the car is 2000Kg then you could tow a 1500Kg trailer behind it (ie less than the unladen car & 1500Kg + 2000Kg (max laden weights) is no more than 3500Kg. I did this briefly before I passed the test & it isn't fun & the prospect of trying stop that light a car with a trailer weighing more or less the same is somewhat scary.
Or. Just do the test, cost a couple of hundred quid, dead easy. You can then tow a much safer setup & never have to worry about it again.
Pete
Are you quoting this for people who have not done the test or not old enough to have grandfather rights on towing, I.E. post 97? I passed my test in 1973 (plus I have an HGV1) and can tow any trailer with any car providing I don't exceed the gross train weight of the car. So I can tow a trailer that may be plated for 4 tons gross with a car that only has a gross train weight of say 3 tons provided the whole lot is not over 3 tons.Therefore, generally, you can not tow a car trailer behind a van as the gross weight (or MAM) of the van is probably at least 2.5 tons & your trailer won't come in any much lower than that.
The actual weight of the van and trailer at the time is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer's plate says.
There is no 80% rule. I believe this is a recommendation by the caravan club & has no standing in law.
The only way round doing the test is to tow something like a 7 on a light trailer behind something approx focus sized. ie if the unladen weight of the car is 1500kg & the maximum weight of the car is 2000Kg then you could tow a 1500Kg trailer behind it (ie less than the unladen car & 1500Kg + 2000Kg (max laden weights) is no more than 3500Kg. I did this briefly before I passed the test & it isn't fun & the prospect of trying stop that light a car with a trailer weighing more or less the same is somewhat scary.
Or. Just do the test, cost a couple of hundred quid, dead easy. You can then tow a much safer setup & never have to worry about it again.
Pete
jagracer said:
Are you quoting this for people who have not done the test or not old enough to have grandfather rights on towing, I.E. post 97? I passed my test in 1973 (plus I have an HGV1) and can tow any trailer with any car providing I don't exceed the gross train weight of the car. So I can tow a trailer that may be plated for 4 tons gross with a car that only has a gross train weight of say 3 tons provided the whole lot is not over 3 tons.
Yes. With grandfather rights, you can do more or less what you like, unfortunately there is a growing number of us that that doesn't apply to..I completely agree, and as someone who took their test post-97 it is more than a little annoying, not to mention frustrating! My advice, buy the trailer you want in terms of size, weight etc and then plate it down to the maximum weight you will ever put on it - in my case hatchback plus 4x tyres (last time it cost a tenner from Brian James). Keep the old one for when you sell it, job jobbed.
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