Considering "afforable" racing - questions, help & adv ice
Discussion
Hi all,
apologies in advance for a long-ish thread & lots of basic questions
I've read some of the threads regarding "cost effective" racing with great interest as taking part rather than watching motorsport has always appealed.
I've had a look the costs invloved in series such as mighty mini, stock-hatch, locost etc these appear to be do-able & being based in south-east midlands most circuits are reasonable to get to.
However, I've only done 1 track day, have no racing experience & zero mechanical nouse. Am I nuts to consider entering a series without getting a bit more experience (e.g. coaching & trackdays) & some mechanical support ?
I would be looking to buy a car that has already run in the series, ideally one thats competitive
Any advice on how to get mechanical back-up? How much tinkering with oily bits is needed over a weekend / season? How much of a slush fund is usual?
Is it possible to share a car with a pal, i,e. split the races between us across the season? or do the regs prevent this?
How do you learn the circuits? Any recommendations re coaching?
Whats the social side like ? do people tend to take their other halves & meet up for food & bevvies etc over the race weekend?
How much time is spent testing, set-up & training out side of a race weekend? I'm an office bod so only have finite amount of leave & wouldn't want to use all of this for racing
Any advice or insight would be welcome
Many thanks
John(porkanut)
apologies in advance for a long-ish thread & lots of basic questions
I've read some of the threads regarding "cost effective" racing with great interest as taking part rather than watching motorsport has always appealed.
I've had a look the costs invloved in series such as mighty mini, stock-hatch, locost etc these appear to be do-able & being based in south-east midlands most circuits are reasonable to get to.
However, I've only done 1 track day, have no racing experience & zero mechanical nouse. Am I nuts to consider entering a series without getting a bit more experience (e.g. coaching & trackdays) & some mechanical support ?
I would be looking to buy a car that has already run in the series, ideally one thats competitive
Any advice on how to get mechanical back-up? How much tinkering with oily bits is needed over a weekend / season? How much of a slush fund is usual?
Is it possible to share a car with a pal, i,e. split the races between us across the season? or do the regs prevent this?
How do you learn the circuits? Any recommendations re coaching?
Whats the social side like ? do people tend to take their other halves & meet up for food & bevvies etc over the race weekend?
How much time is spent testing, set-up & training out side of a race weekend? I'm an office bod so only have finite amount of leave & wouldn't want to use all of this for racing
Any advice or insight would be welcome
Many thanks
John(porkanut)
All in my opinion of course -
I'd say you definitely need some sort of basic mechanical help if not confident of basic things like changing brake pads etc. Quite simply a matter of safety - even basic shopping car based race cars take a hammering on the track and you really need to be able to do the pre-race checks and maintenance. That said, lots of people in low cost series are not mechanically talented. Some pay to hire a car, some pay others to run their car for them, many run the car with family and friends. With increasing experience you'll probably find yourself getting interested in the oily bits.
Nearly everyone gets stuff done by other people at some point. Engine and gearbox rebuilds for example. You'll soon get the contacts. I'd suggest talking to people in one of your favoured series at a race meeting. Each series has a coordinator that can point you in the right direction. If you're at Mallory on boxing day, feel free to talk to me and my brother - he's racing a Fiat Uno.
Regarding coaching, these cars are not so fast that you can't just make do with the basic coaching you get on the ARDS test to get your licence. I'm sure many competitiors would benefit from a bit more coaching than that. Partly a matter of confidence I'm sure. Also it's not so expensive compared to the other costs of racing and of course the repair bill that you might have avoided if you'd got some idea of lines around corners etc. Me - I did the full Jim Russell racing drivers course many years ago.
Once you've got the principles sorted, learning a new circuit during practice at a race meeting is fairly normal at this level. It is useful to go mid-week testing if you can - means you're already primed when you go out in timed practice.
Hope that helps,
snailpace
I'd say you definitely need some sort of basic mechanical help if not confident of basic things like changing brake pads etc. Quite simply a matter of safety - even basic shopping car based race cars take a hammering on the track and you really need to be able to do the pre-race checks and maintenance. That said, lots of people in low cost series are not mechanically talented. Some pay to hire a car, some pay others to run their car for them, many run the car with family and friends. With increasing experience you'll probably find yourself getting interested in the oily bits.
Nearly everyone gets stuff done by other people at some point. Engine and gearbox rebuilds for example. You'll soon get the contacts. I'd suggest talking to people in one of your favoured series at a race meeting. Each series has a coordinator that can point you in the right direction. If you're at Mallory on boxing day, feel free to talk to me and my brother - he's racing a Fiat Uno.
Regarding coaching, these cars are not so fast that you can't just make do with the basic coaching you get on the ARDS test to get your licence. I'm sure many competitiors would benefit from a bit more coaching than that. Partly a matter of confidence I'm sure. Also it's not so expensive compared to the other costs of racing and of course the repair bill that you might have avoided if you'd got some idea of lines around corners etc. Me - I did the full Jim Russell racing drivers course many years ago.
Once you've got the principles sorted, learning a new circuit during practice at a race meeting is fairly normal at this level. It is useful to go mid-week testing if you can - means you're already primed when you go out in timed practice.
Hope that helps,
snailpace
Have you considered the Mk2 Golf championship? I think it meets your requirements in terms of friendly paddocks, virtually unbeatable 'bang for buck' and you would certainly be able to share your car with a friend. The cars are pretty much bullet proof with relatively little fettling required between races, and if you do get stuck there are plenty of people who can help out - in fact I will be at most races next year should you get stuck.
Anyway, I have to confess to having a slightly vested interest in this as i have a front running car for sale - see http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1323364.htm
This is a proper car, professionally put together and 100% reliable and for sale at a very competitive price - less successful cars have been selling for around 1K more than mine.
I am also a registered ARDS instructor, and so can help with ARDS tests and tuition if required.
One last thing - next year the series has moved away from the 750mc to enable the organisers to cherry pick the best circuits available. So far the calender is likely to include Brands Hatch GP, Silverstone GP, Oulton park full circuit, Thruxton, Combe, and Cadwell full circuit!
Anyway if all this sounds good, you can call me on 07859 069818 or email me at spikethurston@hotmail.com
Many thanks, Michael
Anyway, I have to confess to having a slightly vested interest in this as i have a front running car for sale - see http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1323364.htm
This is a proper car, professionally put together and 100% reliable and for sale at a very competitive price - less successful cars have been selling for around 1K more than mine.
I am also a registered ARDS instructor, and so can help with ARDS tests and tuition if required.
One last thing - next year the series has moved away from the 750mc to enable the organisers to cherry pick the best circuits available. So far the calender is likely to include Brands Hatch GP, Silverstone GP, Oulton park full circuit, Thruxton, Combe, and Cadwell full circuit!
Anyway if all this sounds good, you can call me on 07859 069818 or email me at spikethurston@hotmail.com
Many thanks, Michael
Have a search on this forum for "Tin Tops" or "Future Classics", both series run by the Classic Sports car Club that give good value for money & good track time, are novice friendly & have good driving standards. 40 minute races with a compulsory pit stop mean that 2 people can share in the same race.
Plenty of straight forward cars are eligible and competitive such as XR2s, Fiat Unos, Pug 205s, BMW 318s (Tin Tops), or Porsche 924s, MX5 etc (Future Classics).
yes, a bit a bit of basic mechanical apptitude is useful but you could get track side help for not much money by sharing a mechanic between 2 cars. PM me if you want any more info or have a look at teh CSCC web site.
Andy
Plenty of straight forward cars are eligible and competitive such as XR2s, Fiat Unos, Pug 205s, BMW 318s (Tin Tops), or Porsche 924s, MX5 etc (Future Classics).
yes, a bit a bit of basic mechanical apptitude is useful but you could get track side help for not much money by sharing a mechanic between 2 cars. PM me if you want any more info or have a look at teh CSCC web site.
Andy
I have raced for 10 years and have next to no mechanical knowledge. I know how to spanner check a car but if I find any problems I have to get someone who knows what they are doing.
Most club championship have a very friendly paddock atmosphere and you will normally find someone who can help. Obviously single make championships make things easier.
You will however need a friendly local garage who can help you prepare and check the car in between races. Once you get to know people in your championship you might even find a competitor who is local who can help.
My advice is choose a single make championship that is based on a mass produced road car, get as many of your friends as you can to go racing with you and go racing!
The rest you can pick up as you go along.
Most club championship have a very friendly paddock atmosphere and you will normally find someone who can help. Obviously single make championships make things easier.
You will however need a friendly local garage who can help you prepare and check the car in between races. Once you get to know people in your championship you might even find a competitor who is local who can help.
My advice is choose a single make championship that is based on a mass produced road car, get as many of your friends as you can to go racing with you and go racing!
The rest you can pick up as you go along.
porkanut said:
However, I've only done 1 track day, have no racing experience & zero mechanical nouse. Am I nuts to consider entering a series without getting a bit more experience (e.g. coaching & trackdays) & some mechanical support ?
Yes you are. You should fit into most paddocks just fine 
porkanut said:
I would be looking to buy a car that has already run in the series, ideally one thats competitive
Any advice on how to get mechanical back-up? How much tinkering with oily bits is needed over a weekend / season?
If you're getting one that's already been run in whatever series you decide to enter there's a good chance it's previous owner may still be around in which case they'll usually be happy to help you out. Otherwise, although different paddocks vary, generally there are lots of highly competent folks around who will be happy to help both in teaching you what's required and in actually getting on with it.Any advice on how to get mechanical back-up? How much tinkering with oily bits is needed over a weekend / season?
Unless you're a genuinely gifted driver don't expect to be even remotely competitive out of the box no matter how good the car you buy is.
I race in the 750MC's RGB series and in addition to a great paddock camaraderie we have a series sponsor in Andy Bates ( AB Performance) who provides us with fabulous race weekend support. He brings his truck with loads of tools, spares and welding kit, lathe etc. There's no job that hasn't been done in the paddock - welding chassis, manifolds, engine swaps, diff rebuilds etc.
porkanut said:
How much of a slush fund is usual?
This depends to some extent on you - what car you run and how often you break it 
A race meeting will typically cost £150 to £280 depending on whether it's a single or double header (i.e qualy session + either 1 or 2 races) and what circuit it's at. Then you'll need to get yourself and your car there, fuel it etc. We generally go through 2 sets of tyres a season at about £300 a set of 4.porkanut said:
How do you learn the circuits? Any recommendations re coaching?
For most of our race weekends there's a test day on the Friday at the circuit we're racing on. This adds another £150 - £250+ but lets you shake the car down (or break it!) and learn your way round the circuit. Although you can get formal coaching it's expensive and you can generally learn loads from the other guys.porkanut said:
Whats the social side like ? do people tend to take their other halves & meet up for food & bevvies etc over the race weekend?
Again depends on who you're racing with. We have lots of other halves there and often have barbecues etc. At the very least we all hang out together and have a few beers together in the paddock, it's very social. For many of the guys that's a large part of the experience.porkanut said:
How much time is spent testing, set-up & training out side of a race weekend? I'm an office bod so only have finite amount of leave & wouldn't want to use all of this for racing
I generally do no testing other than race weekends. I've had a very, shall we say, unfortunate season with lots of mechanical problems and a couple of crashes so seemed to spend most of my summer either in the garage or in a race paddock. A lot of it will depend firstly on the inherent reliability of your car, secondly on how high maintenance it is (stock road car will tend to require less than a full on race car like a Radical for example) and lastly on your mechanical sympathy etc.You probably need to narrow your option list down and go to a couple of race meetings. You don't say if you've been to any club level meetings - it's not like F1, you're free to wander round the paddock and you'll find most drivers will be more than happy to talk to a potential new recruit.
Be warned though, for most of us it becomes a bit of an obsession. It's highly addictive and even the cheapest series will be a complete money pit - most of us make a point of not totting up the costs! But it'll take your driving to a whole new level and you'll make a bunch of new like-minded petrolhead friends
My building/spannering/racing blog is here and I've posted loads of on-board footage on my YouTube channel. Enough there to bore you to death for weeks!
You can also consider Mk1 MR2's in the MR2 Racing Series.
Minimal modifications keeps costs down and make for a closer grid.
Previous entrant cars are well priced at around £3 to £4k.
Drivers are a mix of experience, I have just finished my 2nd season having never raced before 2008 and had only done a handfull of trackdays,some drivers have come down from other series & championships to avoid being priced out.
The paddock is friendly and we have carried out all manner of repairs to make sure a fellow competitor can race.
If you are sharing a car you get reduced entry fees to Nippon Challenge races (run in the GT150 class) held on the same weekend.
Have a look at the sites:
www.MR2Racing.com
www.NipponChallenge.co.uk
Some Promo videos & in car footage
www.vimeo.com/channels/49101
edited to correct link
Minimal modifications keeps costs down and make for a closer grid.
Previous entrant cars are well priced at around £3 to £4k.
Drivers are a mix of experience, I have just finished my 2nd season having never raced before 2008 and had only done a handfull of trackdays,some drivers have come down from other series & championships to avoid being priced out.
The paddock is friendly and we have carried out all manner of repairs to make sure a fellow competitor can race.
If you are sharing a car you get reduced entry fees to Nippon Challenge races (run in the GT150 class) held on the same weekend.
Have a look at the sites:
www.MR2Racing.com
www.NipponChallenge.co.uk
Some Promo videos & in car footage
www.vimeo.com/channels/49101
edited to correct link
Edited by Hybrids on Wednesday 23 December 09:48
A one make series is definitely a good idea, if you do come unstuck on a race weekend its very likely that somebody else in the paddock will have the parts and know how needed to get you going again. Learning the DIY basics will be a big help in budget racing, spending up to half your budget paying somebody else to do pretty basic stuff doesn't really stack up.
Learning the tracks is based on what you can afford really. Track days with instruction and test days beforehand would be ideal, back in the real world of budget racing its usually sitting in front of a laptop at home watching youtube in car track day/race videos and reading the Circuit Guide. You quickly get to know other drivers with more experience, most are happy for you to follow them for the first couple of qualifying laps to learn the lines a bit if you ask nicely :-)
Another budget series worth considering is PBMW, based on the BMW E30 www.pbmwc.co.uk
Good luck
Learning the tracks is based on what you can afford really. Track days with instruction and test days beforehand would be ideal, back in the real world of budget racing its usually sitting in front of a laptop at home watching youtube in car track day/race videos and reading the Circuit Guide. You quickly get to know other drivers with more experience, most are happy for you to follow them for the first couple of qualifying laps to learn the lines a bit if you ask nicely :-)
Another budget series worth considering is PBMW, based on the BMW E30 www.pbmwc.co.uk
Good luck
My goodness Mr. Nut - you couldn't get a better set of answers to your questions!!!! Brilliant stuff. And some blatent advertising of series too ;-)
If you're at all unsure which series you want to do, there are loads of web sites out there. The main organising club web sites in addition to those mentioned so far are a good start because you'll see links to all their race series -
http://www.brscc.co.uk/
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/
http://www.barc.net/
http://www.750mc.co.uk/
http://www.mgcc.co.uk/
http://www.mightyminis.co.uk/loadframes.html
and loads more about. Race timetables for 2010 are coming out at the moment. Web sites often also have articles of getting started such as how to get a race licence etc. which can seem quite daunting to anyone who thought you can just turn up and race! Time for my blatent plug here - our coordinator does a nice line in amusing articles -
http://www.fiatracing.com/wp-content/uploads/downl...
Cheers,
snailpace
If you're at all unsure which series you want to do, there are loads of web sites out there. The main organising club web sites in addition to those mentioned so far are a good start because you'll see links to all their race series -
http://www.brscc.co.uk/
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/
http://www.barc.net/
http://www.750mc.co.uk/
http://www.mgcc.co.uk/
http://www.mightyminis.co.uk/loadframes.html
and loads more about. Race timetables for 2010 are coming out at the moment. Web sites often also have articles of getting started such as how to get a race licence etc. which can seem quite daunting to anyone who thought you can just turn up and race! Time for my blatent plug here - our coordinator does a nice line in amusing articles -
http://www.fiatracing.com/wp-content/uploads/downl...
Cheers,
snailpace
The first time I ever went on a track was for my Ards test to get the licence, I then did one track day before starting my first race at Cadwell, so you can just jump in.
although if you can afford the money and the time I'd always suggest the week long race intensive course at silverstone, that gets you your ards and a couple of races... expensive, but cheap for what you get, and really gives you a head start.
As for a race series, pick a few that you like the sound of and go an watch some, or find them on the web and talk to some of the racers..
Your going to be spending a lot of time and a fair chunk of your money on it so racing a car that you like is always a good idea..
I'll be in my 10th year of TVR racing next year which is a bit frightening !!!
Class C in the TVR challenge is another possibility for you, tamsmins start at about 3k and i think the championship winning one went for 4-5k...
Cheers
G
although if you can afford the money and the time I'd always suggest the week long race intensive course at silverstone, that gets you your ards and a couple of races... expensive, but cheap for what you get, and really gives you a head start.
As for a race series, pick a few that you like the sound of and go an watch some, or find them on the web and talk to some of the racers..
Your going to be spending a lot of time and a fair chunk of your money on it so racing a car that you like is always a good idea..
I'll be in my 10th year of TVR racing next year which is a bit frightening !!!
Class C in the TVR challenge is another possibility for you, tamsmins start at about 3k and i think the championship winning one went for 4-5k...
Cheers
G
Most of the points have been answered very well by the above posters. So i'll add a slightly different perspective. (15 years racing last 8 in stock hatch)
Firstly I am no spannerman, as lanan will atest. But I still race, if you use a prod car based racer, once its been set up and checked over, it should just need the occasional spanner check. However learn to do the simple stuff, it cuts down on the hassle.
If I was you starting out, I would spend next season doing trackdays. get either a track car, or the car you intend to race, and get some lappage. Try and use the instructor on the day, to teach you the lines. Concentrate on one circuit first so that you can see your improvement, and then try and get to as many of the others as possible. That way you will build up a good base of knowledge of the tracks, so in theory all you have to learn is racing.
When choosing your first car, go for the most reliable, not necessarily the quickest, choose one that looks like it would go better in your hands... its a sure fire way of making a car worth more - race cars are like race horses in that respect.
in your second year, do 6 races, with testing to get yourself as prepared as possible, and to understand the time commitment, and then the year after that, do all the races if you have the time/money.
then spend spend spend. this is the important bit. the more you spend the faster you go.
Firstly I am no spannerman, as lanan will atest. But I still race, if you use a prod car based racer, once its been set up and checked over, it should just need the occasional spanner check. However learn to do the simple stuff, it cuts down on the hassle.
If I was you starting out, I would spend next season doing trackdays. get either a track car, or the car you intend to race, and get some lappage. Try and use the instructor on the day, to teach you the lines. Concentrate on one circuit first so that you can see your improvement, and then try and get to as many of the others as possible. That way you will build up a good base of knowledge of the tracks, so in theory all you have to learn is racing.
When choosing your first car, go for the most reliable, not necessarily the quickest, choose one that looks like it would go better in your hands... its a sure fire way of making a car worth more - race cars are like race horses in that respect.
in your second year, do 6 races, with testing to get yourself as prepared as possible, and to understand the time commitment, and then the year after that, do all the races if you have the time/money.
then spend spend spend. this is the important bit. the more you spend the faster you go.
stockhatcher said:
with testing to get yourself as prepared as possible,
A good point there that a lot of people overlook either as preparation or in working out their budget..Testing is important and it will make you go faster, especially in the early days when seat time makes the biggest difference. So dont forget to budget for that. The most economical way to do it is the day before a race as it saves travel costs, but does often mean a day off work ( friday testing for a sat race) and if you bin it it can put you out for the race.
Hybrids said:
You can also consider Mk1 MR2's in the MR2 Racing Series.
Minimal modifications keeps costs down and make for a closer grid.
Previous entrant cars are well priced at around £3 to £4k.
Drivers are a mix of experience, I have just finished my 2nd season having never raced before 2008 and had only done a handfull of trackdays,some drivers have come down from other series & championships to avoid being priced out.
The paddock is friendly and we have carried out all manner of repairs to make sure a fellow competitor can race.
If you are sharing a car you get reduced entry fees to Nippon Challenge races (run in the GT150 class) held on the same weekend.
Have a look at the sites:
www.MR2Racing.com
www.NipponChallenge.co.uk
Some Promo videos & in car footage
www.vimeo.com/channels/49101
edited to correct link
What he said. Minimal modifications keeps costs down and make for a closer grid.
Previous entrant cars are well priced at around £3 to £4k.
Drivers are a mix of experience, I have just finished my 2nd season having never raced before 2008 and had only done a handfull of trackdays,some drivers have come down from other series & championships to avoid being priced out.
The paddock is friendly and we have carried out all manner of repairs to make sure a fellow competitor can race.
If you are sharing a car you get reduced entry fees to Nippon Challenge races (run in the GT150 class) held on the same weekend.
Have a look at the sites:
www.MR2Racing.com
www.NipponChallenge.co.uk
Some Promo videos & in car footage
www.vimeo.com/channels/49101
edited to correct link
Edited by Hybrids on Wednesday 23 December 09:48
This series is absolutely brilliant. There's someone to race against whatever level of talent you're at and you can build a car for a couple of grand or even hire one on a one off basis.
Hurry up though. I think the grids will be full in 2010.
Dave Hemingway
Red 5
All
a big
to all the feedback really appreciated, lots to mull (no pun intended) over during the festive period.
I've taken the 1st step by ordering my go racing pack from the MSA, most likley to be followed up by the ARDS day course at silverstone race school to get my licence.
Keep you posted & best wishes for Chrimbo
Jon
a big
to all the feedback really appreciated, lots to mull (no pun intended) over during the festive period. I've taken the 1st step by ordering my go racing pack from the MSA, most likley to be followed up by the ARDS day course at silverstone race school to get my licence.
Keep you posted & best wishes for Chrimbo
Jon
I have had a quick read of the posts - Affordable racing?? (how deep is your wallet?)
Not every ones bag - but I had a westfield: a rather quick one some years back,
I'm not a really a car mechanic, more of an engineer - I know a bit having worked for race teams in the paddock.
My westfield was road legal when I got it, but compared to a real road car it was an absoulte peace of cake to work on (a real joy) to keep clean, set up etc... most jobs can be done in minutes with out the need for specialised tools (sping compressors etc..) or heavy lifting.
I wouldnt advise a top spec bike engine car (like my one was) for a budget driver or beginner, - They are high maintenance
- A car engine one seems very reliable (If I had one again I would personally would go for a tuned 2.0ltr zetec or duratec
I would sugest a standard 1.6 zetec or 1.8 zetec may be more sensible for a new racer on a sensible budget) Big engines(v8's) or cosworths are awesome but are really to heavy for race use which is about fast lap times-, a highly tuned smaller engine will work better in a superlight car on the track like caterhams 1.8ltr thing!
- I would go for a zetec engine, You can pick a used engine up for peanuts £100,
Tune it later if required, easy too with after market bolt on bits - a set of throttle bodies and new ecu will see it go like stink compared to normal cars, but it starts to get more expensive with tuning (but well worth it) on these zetec engines.
General advise (I have made these mistakes with various cars)
1)Second hand ones are cheap - but beware what you are paying for,
2) what is the spec of the car (l.s.d. etc) or what the spec the car is, what it allows you to enter in?
3)If you want to race, things like extingusers, harnessed are dated and need replacing which add up - cost. - check entry fees, club fees, race wear etc..
4)Check championship rules/regs (restrictions on tyre choice etc.. makes it more expensive, some even state what work you are allowed to do on your own car)
"Just do your home work, walk the paddocks, go to the meetings ask questions, and do not be fooled by what some one with an interest in where you spend you money might tell you"
N.b, certain road cars may be cheap to buy, but uprated supension and discs and pads will ware out quicker and work out more expensive - than lighter more track orientated cars!
Westfields are used at most race schools by race instructers - they will out handle most cars that do not have down force, on short circuits they will beat most exotic cars, subject to engine choice.
I personally believe they are a good stepping stone to learn to corner faster than is possible in a lot of heavier cars and are absolute baragin pound for performance!
Has definately given me the ability to drive faster cars than I could before.
Only my personal opinion ! (I now drive something different)
Good luck
Not every ones bag - but I had a westfield: a rather quick one some years back,
I'm not a really a car mechanic, more of an engineer - I know a bit having worked for race teams in the paddock.
My westfield was road legal when I got it, but compared to a real road car it was an absoulte peace of cake to work on (a real joy) to keep clean, set up etc... most jobs can be done in minutes with out the need for specialised tools (sping compressors etc..) or heavy lifting.
I wouldnt advise a top spec bike engine car (like my one was) for a budget driver or beginner, - They are high maintenance
- A car engine one seems very reliable (If I had one again I would personally would go for a tuned 2.0ltr zetec or duratec
I would sugest a standard 1.6 zetec or 1.8 zetec may be more sensible for a new racer on a sensible budget) Big engines(v8's) or cosworths are awesome but are really to heavy for race use which is about fast lap times-, a highly tuned smaller engine will work better in a superlight car on the track like caterhams 1.8ltr thing!
- I would go for a zetec engine, You can pick a used engine up for peanuts £100,
Tune it later if required, easy too with after market bolt on bits - a set of throttle bodies and new ecu will see it go like stink compared to normal cars, but it starts to get more expensive with tuning (but well worth it) on these zetec engines.
General advise (I have made these mistakes with various cars)
1)Second hand ones are cheap - but beware what you are paying for,
2) what is the spec of the car (l.s.d. etc) or what the spec the car is, what it allows you to enter in?
3)If you want to race, things like extingusers, harnessed are dated and need replacing which add up - cost. - check entry fees, club fees, race wear etc..
4)Check championship rules/regs (restrictions on tyre choice etc.. makes it more expensive, some even state what work you are allowed to do on your own car)
"Just do your home work, walk the paddocks, go to the meetings ask questions, and do not be fooled by what some one with an interest in where you spend you money might tell you"
N.b, certain road cars may be cheap to buy, but uprated supension and discs and pads will ware out quicker and work out more expensive - than lighter more track orientated cars!
Westfields are used at most race schools by race instructers - they will out handle most cars that do not have down force, on short circuits they will beat most exotic cars, subject to engine choice.
I personally believe they are a good stepping stone to learn to corner faster than is possible in a lot of heavier cars and are absolute baragin pound for performance!
Has definately given me the ability to drive faster cars than I could before.
Only my personal opinion ! (I now drive something different)
Good luck
Edited by The Real Stig on Tuesday 5th January 18:19
Oh and that's not a big up to westfield in particular (I see you mentioned lowcost,which I have heard mentioned with these type of cars) - I know there are other manufacturers of similar cars - "I had a westfield, my father in law had a Caterham" (His was a bit better quality)
I'm not for or against any of the different types - the concept of this style of car is good - It is how I see a track car - space frame, bolt together - light weight!
- some other makes will be cheaper and maybe as good?
I would only be worried about adjustment levels and geometry (not to make it complicated) If a chassis is designed wrong and has supspension pick up points etc.. in the wrong place, no amount of set up etc, will get it handling as well, as a better designed car.
I'm not for or against any of the different types - the concept of this style of car is good - It is how I see a track car - space frame, bolt together - light weight!
- some other makes will be cheaper and maybe as good?
I would only be worried about adjustment levels and geometry (not to make it complicated) If a chassis is designed wrong and has supspension pick up points etc.. in the wrong place, no amount of set up etc, will get it handling as well, as a better designed car.
The advantage of Sevens (be they Westfields, Caterhams, Locosts or other) is that they are light, and lightness brings a whole bunch of advantages.
Over and above the obvious ability to go faster with less power, tyres, brakes and suspension components last a lot longer, as they have less to do. I have a road legal Birkin 7 which I race in South Africa. A set of semi-slicks has lasted me 18 months and counting, racing once a month and several track days. My current Mintex 1144 front pads have approx 6 months in them and are about 1/3 worn. Rear brakes (drums) have negligible wear on the shoes.
Find out what flavour engines are inexpensive where you are (somebody mentioned Ford Zetecs back there) and stick with them; you may be trading power for cheapness and reliability and if you are on a budget, that's a bargain.
Over and above the obvious ability to go faster with less power, tyres, brakes and suspension components last a lot longer, as they have less to do. I have a road legal Birkin 7 which I race in South Africa. A set of semi-slicks has lasted me 18 months and counting, racing once a month and several track days. My current Mintex 1144 front pads have approx 6 months in them and are about 1/3 worn. Rear brakes (drums) have negligible wear on the shoes.
Find out what flavour engines are inexpensive where you are (somebody mentioned Ford Zetecs back there) and stick with them; you may be trading power for cheapness and reliability and if you are on a budget, that's a bargain.
Production BMW?
www.pbmwc.co.uk
If you've no track experience at all, like when I first raced you'll still have a barrel of laughs racing with at least 5 other people in a similar boat albeit in the back half of the grid. Sounds silly, but IMHO when you're in a race the only cars that matter are the one in front and the one behind.
As long as you can follow your haynes manual with some spanners you should be OK as far as normal maintenance goes, just be methodical.
www.pbmwc.co.uk
If you've no track experience at all, like when I first raced you'll still have a barrel of laughs racing with at least 5 other people in a similar boat albeit in the back half of the grid. Sounds silly, but IMHO when you're in a race the only cars that matter are the one in front and the one behind.
As long as you can follow your haynes manual with some spanners you should be OK as far as normal maintenance goes, just be methodical.
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