Monoposto Racing Club 2010

[tristancliffe]

On behalf of the Monoposto Racing Club, allow me to draw you attention to the publication of the 2010 calender and draft regulations.

Both are available on the Monoposto website - www.monoposto.co.uk
The draft regs can be downloaded in PDF form here
The 2010 calender can be downloaded in Word format here

The calender looks like this:


Date Round Venue Organising Club

28/03/2010 1 Brands Hatch MSVR
08/05/2010 2 Thruxton MSVR

22/05/2010 3/4 Anglesey CSCC

19/06/2010 5/6 Snetterton MSVR

08/07/2010 NC Spa Francorchamps (Provisional - TBC)

29/08/2010 7/8 Mallory Park CSCC

11/09/2010 9 Oulton Park Inter. MSVR

25/09/2010 10/11 Croft DDMC

02/10/2010 NC Silverstone GP (NC) BRSCC (Britcar)

16/10/2010 12/13 Silverstone National MSVR

If you aren't aware of the Monoposto Racing Club (MRC, or just Mono), then allow me to explain a little. Mono is a single seater championship, split into (usually) two grids, and several classes, that aims to allow a huge variety of cars to compete with each other. From early naughties Formula Three and Formula Renault cars (2000cc), through to 70s homebuilts (the one I'm thinking of is still competitive, proving age itself (car or driver!) isn't a problem), via Formula Fords (1600 and 1800cc), bike engine cars (1000 and 1400cc), with classes for older cars in some cases as well. Chances are, if you own a single seater, it'll be eligible somewhere in Mono. If you don't own a single seater but want to, then you don't need to spend a fortune to get a car that is competitive in its class, or there are often rent-a-car deals to be done if you want to race them, without the hassle of owning/storing one.

I've been racing with them since 2007 - I debuted in a slicks and wings F3 car, so don't think you have to start in slower, wingless cars - and found them to be friendly, fair, helpful and above all totally sportsmanlike.

Check it out www.monoposto.co.uk or on Wikipedia.

Edit: Added Spa non-championship date and revised (by one week) Snetterton date.

Edited by tristancliffe on Thursday 7th January 10:06

[Muz_Wez]

Only 2 meetings with the CSCC in 2010, that's a shame.

Have a good season Tristan!

[The Real Stig]

Might be doing that guest entry thing this year - not in your class though Tristan. Got to decide what championship I'm gonna race in. How much I can do will depend on work.

[tristancliffe]

Great - the more the merrier! You won't regret it, I'm pretty sure of that. Shame you're not in my class, but I'll cope

Edited by tristancliffe on Sunday 27th December 19:25

[sam919]

Tristan, a mate races in monoposto, he said you had some exeperience with silverstone tyres. I used them for a couple of races in a 300hp caterham. Took a lot to heat up, releasing agent seemed to be lethal in the damp. Season cut short due to engine failure so no real data aquired, can you shed any light on them. Apologies if this interferres with thread.

[tristancliffe]

I can try!

I used Silverstone tyres for 3 races last year - one set of slicks, and all running in totally dry conditions, so I can't speak about their wet performance.

The release agent was VERY slippery; I spun at the first corner despite going REALLY slowly (I had been warned). It took about 10 laps for the tyres to 'come in', and even then they didn't give me confidence to push or trust the car. We tried to develop a setup that would work with them, but failed. They have a far, far stiffer shoulder than the Avons, so if you like a stiff car then they might be wonderful for you. But I prefer a softer car (and our car is designed for the Avon style of rubber). I managed 3 third places, and a couple of seconds on the grid on them.

For the final race of the year I went back to Avons - I borrowed a set from the championship leader who had blown his engine in the penultimate race. Pole to flag victory. That, for me, sums up the difference. Incidentally, that chap went on to win the championship as his main rival retired.

But different drivers have different needs, and different ideas about car setup. They might work for you. They didn't work for me, to the tune of 1 or 2 seconds per minute. I belive another F3 club championship also tried them out in a back-to-back test, and couldn't generate the lap times on the Silverstone's either. It would seem that they're not F3 rubber.

The last I heard they were thinking of reverse-engineering an Avon, so as to move in that direction in terms of construction. So my 'data' might be out of date by now. I know a team that use them Global Lights cars, and they love them, especially the wets. Make of that what you will (probably me not being good enough to take advantage of them?). I would also like to say that the UK dealer was great - super service, and they really tried to help get me comfortable with them. Absolutely can't fault them in that regard, but I couldn't get used to their tyre.

P.S. Never let a driver start a race on an unscrubbed set of Silverstones. There will be an accident. It's not like an Avon where you struggle a bit for a couple of corners, but by lap two they are brilliant. Someone will have an accident, as they give NO (Zero. Zilch.) grip for the first lap or two.

[The Real Stig]

I here this is the case with many different types of tyres - due to the tyre constuction?

Something to do with cross ply? being much stiffer than radials? We use Avon's (a flexable tyre) and I was told by the factory, They tried different tyres and certain makes require total adjustment changes to suspesion settings etc.(before my time)

It is my understanding that some of movement in the tyre actually forms part of the role of the suspension? or somehting like that,the tyre flexes which aids traction (well I know what I mean anyway - with out getting into some techo argument)

---

Tristan - I did come to watch Mono earlier this year - was interested in the 2.0ltr f3 type classes, - I have had a look at different cars but unless I'm looking in the wrong places the up to date ish looking cars still go for really stong money??

( I know cheaper older ones are available, but I like the fact the newer one look up to date, more f1 style and still lap similar times to my car)

No point selling mine for a less up to date slower car, but the resale value of mine compared to a formula 2000 or some thing similar would leave, a big hole in the budget. As mine has had nearly new everything (I have my own reasons for considering changing cars at some point)

I do not want to buy a dog and spend shed loads replacing everything.

Will have to clock up a few miles on my own, before I decide which way to go was just thinking - winter, to much time on my hands lol.

Edited by The Real Stig on Monday 28th December 09:13

[sam919]

Thanks for the info. I tried them in the wet, just a track day at Mallory but they seemed to be fine. The first time i raced them, practised/ qualified in the damp first which didnt do much to scrub the release agent off, then had the race so the first few laps were shady to say the least. Im going to persist and maybe soften the suspension wether it be ARB's or shocks, i suppose shock wise adjustments can be more presice. If the tyres arent the best then will have to go to avons but im going to have a concerted effort to find there potential with the help of a few mates that will have a better idea!

Anwyay Timms Dallara? mmmm!

[tristancliffe]

The Real Stig said:

I here this is the case with many different types of tyres - due to the tyre constuction?

Something to do with cross ply? being much stiffer than radials? We use Avon's (a flexable tyre) and I was told by the factory, They tried different tyres and certain makes require total adjustment changes to suspesion settings etc.(before my time)

It is my understanding that some of movement in the tyre actually forms part of the role of the suspension? or somehting like that,the tyre flexes which aids traction (well I know what I mean anyway - with out getting into some techo argument)

---

Tristan - I did come to watch Mono earlier this year - was interested in the 2.0ltr f3 type classes, - I have had a look at different cars but unless I'm looking in the wrong places the up to date ish looking cars still go for really stong money??

( I know cheaper older ones are available, but I like the fact the newer one look up to date, more f1 style and still lap similar times to my car)

No point selling mine for a less up to date slower car, but the resale value of mine compared to a formula 2000 or some thing similar would leave, a big hole in the budget. As mine has had nearly new everything (I have my own reasons for considering changing cars at some point)

I do not want to buy a dog and spend shed loads replacing everything.

Will have to clock up a few miles on my own, before I decide which way to go was just thinking - winter, to much time on my hands lol.

Edited by The Real Stig on Monday 28th December 09:13

You are correct - the tyre is very much a part of the suspension - the spring rate of the tyre, and it's internal damping rate impact heavily on the handling of the car. A stiffer tyre and softer suspension could give the same results as a softer tyre and stiffer suspension. But in reality it's a lot more complex, not least because the tyre flex defines how the tyre grips and, more importantly, how it loses and regains grip. A softer tyre is generally more forgiving, which equates to the crossply/radial thing. Both the Avons and the Silverstones were, technically, radials, but still had markedly different internal construction.

What car have you got at the moment? A late 90s car is somewhere between £15k and £22k, rising more and more as you approach a 2004 car (the newest F3 car allowed in Mono I believe). Until this year the newest allowed was a 2001 car, and it was felt that this wasn't much better (if at all) than the 1997/1998 cars. I would be surprised if a 1995/1996 car is much slower, although the aerodynamics are clearly less advanced on that generation.

Our previous car, a 1988 Reynard, was as quick or quicker than a comparible 'modern' Dallara in the wet, probably because it was softer and therefore more predictable and catchable in those conditions. In the dry it was between 1 and 3 seconds per lap slower, although this was magnified by us using a compound harder than the Dallaras. So somewhere between 0.5 and 2 seconds would be about right. A decent driver could reduce that even further. A lot comes down to the engine - a decent engine is worth a lot of lap time over a cobbled together job. And a decent setup - not neccesarily a different one for each circuit - can give a lot of confidence. And at this level confidence is more important than the outright 'fastest' setup.

There is a school of thought that the 'ultimate' Mono car would be a post-2000 Formula Renault, as they're a bit smaller, yet generate similar downforce. It would be interesting to find out, and a good challenge for the person that tried it.

sam919 said:

Thanks for the info. I tried them in the wet, just a track day at Mallory but they seemed to be fine. The first time i raced them, practised/ qualified in the damp first which didnt do much to scrub the release agent off, then had the race so the first few laps were shady to say the least. Im going to persist and maybe soften the suspension wether it be ARB's or shocks, i suppose shock wise adjustments can be more presice. If the tyres arent the best then will have to go to avons but im going to have a concerted effort to find there potential with the help of a few mates that will have a better idea!

Anwyay Timms Dallara? mmmm!

It might be that you'll love them. You're style might be what is needed to get the most of out them. And as they're so cheap you might find that more new tyres gives you a huge advantage. The release agent is nasty!
Remember that ARBs, springs and dampers do different things at different times. If the car is to twitch at turn in or during direction changes (i.e. roll transients) then soften the ARBs. If it's harsh over bumps, or isn't good at braking/accelerating, then look at the springs. In both cases it might also be dampers (all transients). Experimenting is the thing to do, be it at test days or race days. Never accept the car as 'good enough' as there is always something it can do better. So keep fiddling, but write everything down. If it doesn't work you can at least revert to a known setup easily.

Timms' Dallara - very very fast. Needs a bit of TLC in places (I hope he wouldn't mind me saying that, I think he'd be the first to agree), which could make it go even faster. Personally, I think it's a bargain at the moment, so make that call before someone else does.

[sam919]

Thanks, im going to try and put together a test programme and go through an array of set-ups. Been looking hard at getting a data logger, but i need time in the seat more. Lap times will be the only way of recording changes for now, i suppose there will be an element of inaccuracy though. I usually take notes afer every meeting, but again have put together a better excel spreadsheet to record all that can be changed for 2010.

Its a quick car and if he sells it someone will do alright.

[tristancliffe]

By recording the changes, I meant write down ride height, caster, camber, toe, wing angles, tyre pressures, spring rates, preloads, fuel levels (before and after), damper settings etc. If you do this for every run (including writing down the values you don't change, so that each sheet of paper has an entire setup on it), then it's much easier to revert back, see trends, and generally learn.

I'm sure there are many quick people who just change stuff and go and race it. I'm not one of them, until I've written it down.

Datalogging is great, but seat time is more essential, especially to begin with. A 'cheap' datalogger (Race Technology DL1 for instance) is good for recording engine parameters - oil pressure, coolant temp, revs - which can help predict and prevent costly engine blowups. Adding 'driver logging' (steering, brake, throttle etc) isn't critical (at least, to begin with).

Timms car is quick, but bear in mind a lot of that speed is also down to him as a driver. In all of Mono he's got to be up there as one of the "Best Drivers" in terms of speed and consistency. He has made vastly inferior cars be on (or near) the pace of the leading Dallaras, and was the 1998 BARC Formula Renault 1700 champion. It's not just the car (in his case).

Edited by tristancliffe on Thursday 31st December 10:03

[sam919]

I probably didnt explain well, i meant by recording lap times and the potential changes in lap times to reflect the data and subsequent technical changes made to the car. It may be easier with the caterham as im sure it hasnt the complexity of a SS with regards to set-up.

True about drivers skill, im afraid ive gone for the cheating option of power before learning the car!!

[andy97]

Mono is a good club and I really do recommend it for the aspiring club single seater driver, but I would say that most of the differences between car performances, for the majority of the grid, are down to differences in the driver! Remember that some lap records are still held by a Vauxhall Lotus and Richard Purcell still goes well in his (modified) version.

I know that even if I drove the best Mono spec Dallara, I probably would not be much above the back of the grid, whilst i reckon that Jeremy Timms or the Harrisons could still get decent result in my old Vauxhall Lotus!

[tristancliffe]

Updated the first post with the revised Snetterton date (one weekend later), and also added mention of the Spa non-championship race in July (to be confirmed).