Petrol Petrol Petrol

[The Moose]

So, I am getting confused here.

Have faced this issue several times before and wonder if the PH MASSIV can turn up the truth??

Going off for a race weekend, I have tried to buy 60 litres of petrol (no, not in evian bottles, rather proper 20L jerry cans).

I was under the assumption that if it was for use, not storage then that was ok??

I would love to know the law so I could print it and take it with me!! It just seems a joke as the only thing it does is waste my time - having to stop 3 times on the way rather than just the one.

Cheers

The Moose

[majordad]

Law says you can buy 5 litres in a plastic container, 20 litres in a metal one. But nowhere does it say how many of them you can buy, just what the capacities are per container not purchase.

[andy rob]

im going to anglesy tomorrow for the lma, ive got 4x20 ltr jerry cans & a 50 ltr drum in the motorhome, dont both me !!! been stopped before with race car on trailer & then never asked about fuel

[RogueMotorsport]

majordad said:

Law says you can buy 5 litres in a plastic container, 20 litres in a metal one. But nowhere does it say how many of them you can buy, just what the capacities are per container not purchase.

Actually, there are laws about how much you can purchase in containers per visit. I'm pretty sure it's 2 x 20litre containers. I've certainly been stopped by several petrol stations from filling more than two.

[miguel38]

I usualy fill up the transit with £90ish of fuel, pay then use the same pump to fill as many 20litre jerry cans before the pump shuts off i get about 4 full of tesco 99 then pay again and have no issues. although they would be silly to as there is usually an american motor home with a 300 litre tank that needs to be filled aswell...

[NTEL]

I've never had a problem. I usually turn up with the car on the trailer, put 30 litres in that then fill three, twenty litre gerry cans. Never been stopped or questioned.

[Zumbruk]

I get the cans (2 x 20l jerrycans) out before I do anything else and always make sure I put them out of sight of the pod person in the glass box. I then fill the TVR and the cans in one go. The last thing I need is an argument with some minimum wage numpty over the fine points of the Petroleum Spirit regulations. The only time I've ever had an issue was filling the 5l plastic can for the lawnmower, when the numpty stopped the pump and demanded to see the can. Sigh.

"The law is for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools."

[shivars]

erm, every time I've ever done this its been 40 litres of diesel in the tow car plus two 20 litre jerry cans plus a 5 litre petrol can. This has been at at least 3 local garages and none have ever mentioned anything about limits...

I agree the container size limits are legally enforced; 5 litres for a plastic container and 20 litres for a welded metal one (I think), also different for diesel than petrol.

But no maximum purchase amount, that would be lame...

[GreenV8S]

I believe there's a limit to how much you're allowed to store, too. I don't remember what the limit is, but it's not much.

[Galileo]

By law you are allowed to store 2 gallons of fuel in approved metal containers, over and above fuel being stored in a vehicle fuel tank/engine. Anything else requires a licence whether it is a private or commercial premises. Licences used to granted by the local fire officer but are now done by the Trading Standards office.

I am not aware of any law that stops someone buying any amount of fuel they wish, as long as it is into appropriate containers. Transportation of fuel over and above 2 gallons requires a licence and a licenced vehicle.

HTH

Edited by Galileo on Monday 6th April 12:30

[dreamer75]

BP in this area (the two local ones) don't let you fill up even one 20L jerry can. Although BP website says you can, they have stickers on the pumps saying you can only use a 5L plastic can.

PITA - but I've never had a problem at other garages filling up 2-3 jerry cans.

[Scuffers]

Galileo said:

By law you are allowed to store 2 gallons of fuel in approved metal containers, over and above fuel being stored in a vehicle fuel tank/engine. Anything else requires a licence whether it is a private or commercial premises. Licences used to granted by the local fire officer but are now done by the Trading Standards office.

I am not aware of any law that stops someone buying any amount of fuel they wish, as long as it is into appropriate containers. Transportation of fuel over and above 2 gallons requires a licence and a licenced vehicle.

HTH

Edited by Galileo on Monday 6th April 12:30

I used to think this but there seems to be no rule about carrying up to 250L (used to buy race fuel in 205L drums).

[The Moose]

Scuffers said:

Galileo said:

By law you are allowed to store 2 gallons of fuel in approved metal containers, over and above fuel being stored in a vehicle fuel tank/engine. Anything else requires a licence whether it is a private or commercial premises. Licences used to granted by the local fire officer but are now done by the Trading Standards office.

I am not aware of any law that stops someone buying any amount of fuel they wish, as long as it is into appropriate containers. Transportation of fuel over and above 2 gallons requires a licence and a licenced vehicle.

HTH

Edited by Galileo on Monday 6th April 12:30

I used to think this but there seems to be no rule about carrying up to 250L (used to buy race fuel in 205L drums).

Do you have any legal info as to this?

Cheers

The Moose

[Scuffers]

The Moose said:

Scuffers said:

Galileo said:

By law you are allowed to store 2 gallons of fuel in approved metal containers, over and above fuel being stored in a vehicle fuel tank/engine. Anything else requires a licence whether it is a private or commercial premises. Licences used to granted by the local fire officer but are now done by the Trading Standards office.

I am not aware of any law that stops someone buying any amount of fuel they wish, as long as it is into appropriate containers. Transportation of fuel over and above 2 gallons requires a licence and a licenced vehicle.

HTH

Edited by Galileo on Monday 6th April 12:30

I used to think this but there seems to be no rule about carrying up to 250L (used to buy race fuel in 205L drums).

Do you have any legal info as to this?

Cheers

The Moose

need to go digging, but the info came from Petrochem Carless..

[The Moose]

Scuffers said:

The Moose said:

Scuffers said:

Galileo said:

By law you are allowed to store 2 gallons of fuel in approved metal containers, over and above fuel being stored in a vehicle fuel tank/engine. Anything else requires a licence whether it is a private or commercial premises. Licences used to granted by the local fire officer but are now done by the Trading Standards office.

I am not aware of any law that stops someone buying any amount of fuel they wish, as long as it is into appropriate containers. Transportation of fuel over and above 2 gallons requires a licence and a licenced vehicle.

HTH

Edited by Galileo on Monday 6th April 12:30

I used to think this but there seems to be no rule about carrying up to 250L (used to buy race fuel in 205L drums).

Do you have any legal info as to this?

Cheers

The Moose

need to go digging, but the info came from Petrochem Carless..

Ok cool - I will have a gander through Google when I get a min this weekend...

Cheers

The Moose

[thunderbelmont]

Surrey Trading Standards Website said:

It is an offence to keep petroleum spirit or petroleum mixture without a licence except that :-

Not exceeding 15 litres of petroleum spirit may be kept for sale or for private use in metal vessels or suitably designed plastic petrol containers, each securely stopped and each containing not more than 5 litres.

Petroleum spirit may be kept for use in motor vehicles, motor boats, aircraft and any other internal combustion engines in accordance with the Petroleum Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929 and the Petroleum Spirit (Plastic Containers) Regulations 1982.

In no case may more than 275 litres be so kept in any one storage place. The Regulations do not authorise the keeping of petroleum spirit for sale.

(selling stuff removed)

If any person to whom a licence is granted contravenes any condition of the licence or any employee fails to observe any condition of the licence set out in the notice mentioned in 8, they are liable on conviction to a heavy penalty. A heavy penalty may also be imposed in respect of the illegal keeping of petroleum spirit.

Any person who in contravention of the relevant provisions of the Petroleum (Consolidation) Act 1928 refuses to show any officer authorised by the Authority any place or vessel in which petroleum in their possession is kept, or to give to such officers such assistance as they may require for examining any such place or vessel, or to give them samples of such petroleum on payment of the value thereof, or who wilfully obstructs the Authority, or any officer of the Authority acting in the execution of the Act, is liable on conviction to a penalty.

That's the law.

15L in tin cans
5L in plastic pots

Worrying isn't it!

You can always apply to your local trading standards for a storage licence - the basic licence allows storage of up to 2500L.

Rob.

[The Moose]

thunderbelmont said:

Surrey Trading Standards Website said:

It is an offence to keep petroleum spirit or petroleum mixture without a licence except that :-

Not exceeding 15 litres of petroleum spirit may be kept for sale or for private use in metal vessels or suitably designed plastic petrol containers, each securely stopped and each containing not more than 5 litres.

Petroleum spirit may be kept for use in motor vehicles, motor boats, aircraft and any other internal combustion engines in accordance with the Petroleum Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929 and the Petroleum Spirit (Plastic Containers) Regulations 1982.

In no case may more than 275 litres be so kept in any one storage place. The Regulations do not authorise the keeping of petroleum spirit for sale.

(selling stuff removed)

If any person to whom a licence is granted contravenes any condition of the licence or any employee fails to observe any condition of the licence set out in the notice mentioned in 8, they are liable on conviction to a heavy penalty. A heavy penalty may also be imposed in respect of the illegal keeping of petroleum spirit.

Any person who in contravention of the relevant provisions of the Petroleum (Consolidation) Act 1928 refuses to show any officer authorised by the Authority any place or vessel in which petroleum in their possession is kept, or to give to such officers such assistance as they may require for examining any such place or vessel, or to give them samples of such petroleum on payment of the value thereof, or who wilfully obstructs the Authority, or any officer of the Authority acting in the execution of the Act, is liable on conviction to a penalty.

That's the law.

15L in tin cans
5L in plastic pots

Worrying isn't it!

You can always apply to your local trading standards for a storage licence - the basic licence allows storage of up to 2500L.

Rob.

Surely the bold bit above says that you can store as many PROPER jerrys as you like as long as the total litres is less than 275L therefore my mere 60 odd litres shouldn't be an issue??

Or am I missing something...

Cheers

The Moose

[Scuffers]

best I can find is this:

The Petroleum Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929

Not more than 275 litres shall be kept in any one store (petroleum spirit in the fuel tank of an internal combustion engine within a storage place shall be deemed to be kept in the storage place). Storage places shall be more than 6 metres apart.

A storage place shall :-

Be ventilated to the open air and have an entrance direct to the open air (unless it is in the open air)
Have appropriate fire extinguishing apparatus for petroleum spirit or a supply of sand
Not be attached to any building used as a dwelling or place where people assemble for other purposes, unless it is separated by a fire resisting floor or partition
Petroleum spirit shall not be kept in a vessel exceeding 10 litres unless the storage place is more than 6 metres from any building, highway or public footpath, or have an excavation or retaining wall to stop petroleum spirit flowing from the storage place. Written notice that petroleum spirit is proposed to be kept at the premises shall be sent to the local authority, and annually thereafter each January.

If the store is within 6 metres of any building, highway or public footpath, then the petroleum spirit shall be kept in the fuel tank of an internal combustion engine or in two other vessels not exceeding 10 litres. A written notice that petroleum spirit is proposed to be kept at the premises shall be sent to the local authority, and annually thereafter each January.

All reasonable precautions shall be taken to prevent fire or artificial light from igniting petroleum vapour.

Two vessels may be kept other than in "the store" provided that the area in which they are kept is fitted with a self-closing fire resisting door if it is attached to a dwelling (i.e., the door from a garage to the house).

You should not keep petroleum under the stairs.

[The Moose]

Scuffers said:

best I can find is this:

The Petroleum Spirit (Motor Vehicles etc.) Regulations 1929

Not more than 275 litres shall be kept in any one store (petroleum spirit in the fuel tank of an internal combustion engine within a storage place shall be deemed to be kept in the storage place). Storage places shall be more than 6 metres apart.

A storage place shall :-

Be ventilated to the open air and have an entrance direct to the open air (unless it is in the open air)
Have appropriate fire extinguishing apparatus for petroleum spirit or a supply of sand
Not be attached to any building used as a dwelling or place where people assemble for other purposes, unless it is separated by a fire resisting floor or partition
Petroleum spirit shall not be kept in a vessel exceeding 10 litres unless the storage place is more than 6 metres from any building, highway or public footpath, or have an excavation or retaining wall to stop petroleum spirit flowing from the storage place. Written notice that petroleum spirit is proposed to be kept at the premises shall be sent to the local authority, and annually thereafter each January.

If the store is within 6 metres of any building, highway or public footpath, then the petroleum spirit shall be kept in the fuel tank of an internal combustion engine or in two other vessels not exceeding 10 litres. A written notice that petroleum spirit is proposed to be kept at the premises shall be sent to the local authority, and annually thereafter each January.

All reasonable precautions shall be taken to prevent fire or artificial light from igniting petroleum vapour.

Two vessels may be kept other than in "the store" provided that the area in which they are kept is fitted with a self-closing fire resisting door if it is attached to a dwelling (i.e., the door from a garage to the house).

You should not keep petroleum under the stairs.

Does that mean that a 20L jerry can is illegal?

Also does it mean that if you have a few 20L jerry cans in the car you are also breaking the law?

Or am I missing something??

Cheers

The Moose

[thunderbelmont]

I've been reading, and re-reading this, and the other one:

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspages.n...

and it does appear confusing.

It states that you may not store more than 15L in metal containers.

But, as you say, you may store a maximum of 275L - however, it does include the fuel stored within the vehicle.

Say you have three Class A American motorhomes, like mine, with it's 90US Gallon tank...

That's a lot more than 275L in one place - if they're full.

The law is a nightmare, and it will be down to the interpretation of the person enforcing it - which in this day and age is a worry!