CATs for 2009 - I'm confused?
Discussion
Now that the MSA have decreed that everyone with a post 2000 car must have a CAT fitted for 2009 I've been looking at CAT's on tinternet and I'm totally confused. Do I get a 200 cpi or a 100 cpi? Are there any restrictions on cpi? I'm racing a Westfield 1.8 zetec in the Westfield championship and possibly one or two rounds of the magnificent 7's. Does anyone have any idea of which CAT I should fit?
RogueMotorsport said:
Although the regulations say that a cat must be fitted, it doesn't say where. Mine's going in the passenger footwell.
im sure they'll cotton on at some point... but i dont know how they are going to police it a total waste of time... most of the cats will be ruined within a lap, so quite how mining and wasting heavy metals and then burning them up in a race car exhaust is good for the environment i dont know !!!something better would have been a recycling program for oil and tyres...
What do you do with a car on carbs... how is that going to work....
strangely my new car is built on an existing chassis from 31 dec 1999...
Rules are that it must be fitted in the exhaust, and scrutes need to be able to see that it is there by way of an inspection hole. 100 cells per square inch offer less restriction and more power. There are quite a few cheap ones on the market now, make sure whatever you use has a metallic core, ceramic ones although much cheaper will break up. You don't need an FIA approved cat for UK, only for international events. So far the MSA has no way of measuring catalytic efficiency AFAIK, so it doesn't really matter if it is off an old road car or whatever, just make sure it is not melted internally or blocked in any way. Don't be tempted to put one on behind the silencer or any stuffing that comes out of the silencer will block the cat, which could damage your engine.
Edited by 456lbft on Tuesday 10th February 17:55
Went to the NEC this year to find out about catalytic converters. The size of Cat depends on your engine capacity to cope with air throughput. Found Piper Exhausts (Cams) to be the chepeast, prices varied from about £150 to £500, nothing fancy, not stainless or chromed. Tell them the engine size and they will tell you whether you need the 100 or 200.
Location of the Cat will I think be a contentious issue this season and I think we will see clarification in next years Blue Book.
Barrie...
Location of the Cat will I think be a contentious issue this season and I think we will see clarification in next years Blue Book.
Barrie...
456lbft said:
Rules are that it must be fitted in the exhaust, and scrutes need to be able to see that it is there by way of an inspection hole. 100 cells per square inch offer less restriction and more power. There are quite a few cheap ones on the market now, make sure whatever you use has a metallic core, ceramic ones although much cheaper will break up. You don't need an FIA approved cat for UK, only for international events. So far the MSA has no way of measuring catalytic efficiency AFAIK, so it doesn't really matter if it is off an old road car or whatever, just make sure it is not melted internally or blocked in any way. Don't be tempted to put one on behind the silencer or any stuffing that comes out of the silencer will block the cat, which could damage your engine.
'An inspection hole'? How is that going to work? Does anyone have any pictures of a CAT fitted to a Westfield?Edited by 456lbft on Tuesday 10th February 17:55
Edited by shortshift on Sunday 15th March 18:03
shortshift said:
456lbft said:
Rules are that it must be fitted in the exhaust, and scrutes need to be able to see that it is there by way of an inspection hole. 100 cells per square inch offer less restriction and more power. There are quite a few cheap ones on the market now, make sure whatever you use has a metallic core, ceramic ones although much cheaper will break up. You don't need an FIA approved cat for UK, only for international events. So far the MSA has no way of measuring catalytic efficiency AFAIK, so it doesn't really matter if it is off an old road car or whatever, just make sure it is not melted internally or blocked in any way. Don't be tempted to put one on behind the silencer or any stuffing that comes out of the silencer will block the cat, which could damage your engine.
'An inspection hole'? How is that going to work? Does anyone have any pictures of a CAT fitted to a Westfield?Edited by 456lbft on Tuesday 10th February 17:55
Edited by shortshift on Sunday 15th March 18:03
Edited by custardtart on Monday 16th March 08:57
The regulations stipulate that a cat must be fitted, however this does not mean by implication that the car must comply with the emissions regulations of that particular car/age/engine.
I have been told by a respected engine builder that CATS are fitted close to the manifold in road applications as that is where they are most effective, however for race applications (where we don't acually give a s
t how effective they are), we are better mounting them as far back in the system as possible - BUT, be careful that your silencers aren't filled with fibreglass wadding that could dislodge and block the Cat, and potentially blow your engine.
I have been told by a respected engine builder that CATS are fitted close to the manifold in road applications as that is where they are most effective, however for race applications (where we don't acually give a s
t how effective they are), we are better mounting them as far back in the system as possible - BUT, be careful that your silencers aren't filled with fibreglass wadding that could dislodge and block the Cat, and potentially blow your engine.You could always try the method as used by fellow competitors on the Continent last year with a motorcycle catalyst fitted in the end of the exhaust pipe. Complies with the letter of the regulations and is easily checked. Also very cheap, I believe they were paying 25 euros from bike breakers.
custardtart said:
I think the general consensus among us Westy racers is not to fit them as our cars are all pre 200o - aren't they?
My understanding of the blue book is - you do not need a CAT if the car is pre 2000. However the 750MC seem to have made a CAT compulsary for their events. So I guess it depends on your race series & regs.Edited by custardtart on Monday 16th March 08:57
Kevp said:
custardtart said:
I think the general consensus among us Westy racers is not to fit them as our cars are all pre 200o - aren't they?
My understanding of the blue book is - you do not need a CAT if the car is pre 2000. However the 750MC seem to have made a CAT compulsary for their events. So I guess it depends on your race series & regs.Edited by custardtart on Monday 16th March 08:57
I certainly don't want another £200 added to the cost of racing this year, we're trying to attract people to come and race in the Westfield series not put them off.
custardtart said:
Usually just one, on one of the cross members in the engine bay, the good news is it will be impossible to verify that your car is not a pre 2000.
until the msa say you have to prove that your car is pre 2000 to allow you to not run cats, rather than them having to prove its post 2000 to make you...Its probably too late now that its in place but is there any merit in starting a campaign to prove how damaging to the enviroment the use of cats in motorsport it, and put forward a sensible alternative i.e. tyre and oil recycling and planting trees!!!! that would actually do some good...
for a start motorsport stops some land development i.e. brands would easily be a housing estate if it were not a race track !! and other places would probably be industrial estates
Graham said:
custardtart said:
Usually just one, on one of the cross members in the engine bay, the good news is it will be impossible to verify that your car is not a pre 2000.
until the msa say you have to prove that your car is pre 2000 to allow you to not run cats, rather than them having to prove its post 2000 to make you...Its probably too late now that its in place but is there any merit in starting a campaign to prove how damaging to the enviroment the use of cats in motorsport it, and put forward a sensible alternative i.e. tyre and oil recycling and planting trees!!!! that would actually do some good...
for a start motorsport stops some land development i.e. brands would easily be a housing estate if it were not a race track !! and other places would probably be industrial estates
teamHOLDENracing said:
I received this the other day:
You will be delighted to hear the MSA have confirmed with us that none of the cars running in the GT Cup in 2009 will be required to have Catalytic Converters fitted.
Which is interesting!
I thought the ruling in the blue book was universal across all formulas? How can some be exempt and not others? I doubt that the GT Cup cars are less environmentally damaging than little Westfield Zetecs?You will be delighted to hear the MSA have confirmed with us that none of the cars running in the GT Cup in 2009 will be required to have Catalytic Converters fitted.
Which is interesting!
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