What are your opinions on the Kumho?

[RobbieL]

After karting for many years, I am now in the position to make the step up to club racing. I have looked at many championships but the only one I really have lots of info on (and the one I''m swayed towards) is the kumho.

I am in a position now to buy a car for circa 10k and spend another 4-5k on it to get it up to race spec.

I just want to do a final bit of research to see what your opinions are on the Kumho series and if there is anythign else I need to know as I am a complete novice.

Cheers
Rob

[1]

From what I understand it is a good, well organised series but if you want to be competitive it can be expensive. You will be looking at £20-£30 to develop a decent car.

The new CLS Cup looks interesting, E46 M3's and CSL's with a standard and modified class. I would say you are looking at £18-£20k build costs and that should get you a fairly competitive production class car. Lots of controlled parts means it will be much easier to build a competitive car.

[Simon Mason]

Yes its a very nice race series but you'll spend 3 to 4k just getting it ready to sit on the grid as a road car with a nice roll cage and decent brake pads, let alone be anywhere near competitive. Your best off buying a built car or buying a car for 5k and spending 10k on it.

Alternatively the best advise I can give you based on your budget would be go and race in the E30 series (not sure what its called any more, it was and maybe still is the Seloc one) for E30 320 and 318's and have a competitive car and lots of fun without always wishing you could buy more performance for your car to have a fair crack at it.

[cyclonic88]

Hi Robbie, Great championship, come joinus you know you want to. Your best bet at the moment is to buy a ready to run car, Geoff steel has this Class A Car http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/17165/E36_M3...

You wouldn't be allowed the sequential box for kumho so maybe you could do a bit of a deal to get it to your budget.

Piers

[RobbieL]

cyclonic88 said:

Hi Robbie, Great championship, come joinus you know you want to. Your best bet at the moment is to buy a ready to run car, Geoff steel has this Class A Car http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/17165/E36_M3...

You wouldn't be allowed the sequential box for kumho so maybe you could do a bit of a deal to get it to your budget.

Piers

Hi Piers,

You may remember you took me for a few hot laps around Brands late Nov'!! Thanks for the info huys. The car I have my eye on is pretty much race ready with only a few parts being essential to sit on the grid. The rest of the money would be spent on making it competitive. Grateful for your thoughts on the spec list below:

Full GTR Body kit - Arches / Bumpers / Splitter / Sills
18" BBS RK2 Lightweight Alloys - Yokohama Tyres 48R (RS-GT) (RX II)
OMP front seats & harnesses - Steering Wheel
Full Safety Devices Rollcage
Alloy footrests - both sides
F.I.A. Extinguisher
Battery Boxed In Boot
Alloy Door Panels - Lightweight interior
Push Button Start
Full Operative BMW dashboard
Engine Lightened and Balanced with Schrick Cams
Gear Change Shift Light
De-Catted Exhaust with Scorpion Stainless rear box
Replaced Clutch with Light weight fly wheel
Remapped ECU with Carbon Airbox and Custom Throttle Body
AP Racing Brake Calipers (huge) - Disc and Pads - Hoses - All pipes new
FK Coil Over Suspension - Full Adjustable - Rogue Engineering Adjustable Top Mounts - Powerflex F&R anti roll bar bushes - Trailing Arm - Gear Box Mounts
High Ratio Steering rack fitted
Alloy Front Strut Brace Fitted - Adjustable
Supplied on a Brian James car trailer with spare wheels carrier

V5 Registered - Log Book Present - With Chassis Number & VIN plates attached

This car was built for the owner of a specialist car company (who sells Zondas, Ferrari and Bugatti). The car was used for a couple of testing sessions and then sold to a successful endurance team.
The car is fully race prepared - track day car, built in 2006 to very high standards. All safety parts are to F.I.A. standards. This car could run Group N subject to sanction by the organising bodies.
This car weighs less than 1200kg and has +340bhp

[cyclonic88]

Sounds intresting but the GTR bodykit will not be allowed in the Kumho, Brakes need to be a max of 330mm four pots, is the cage a weld in or bolt in, if it's bolt in then I would consider having a weld in fitted. It transforms the E36 chassis.

[RobbieL]

Im aware the bodykit will have to go and the brakes modified but I can get some money back in the funds for this. The rollcage is bolt-in but again I already have a buyer should I go ahead with it and I intend to get a weld-in jobbie through the bulkhead etc. I should also see money back from the sale of the wheels. As mentioned earlier, I intend to spend a bit on getting it grid ready and then some more on getting it competitive ideally in Class B as I think Class A may be a tad ambitious for a 1st season.

I should be getting the car initially for circa 10-11k then spend 5-6k on it. In your opinion, would this make for a competitive car? This really would be the max of my budget. I had considered buying a race ready car however I have struggled to find a decent one for sub 20k - hence I am thinking of this route instead. The car itself seems a steal to me however I could be wrong? It was for sale for 15k but due to the financial climate the bloke has agreed less.

[cyclonic88]

The car seems to be a bit of a mixed bag if you ask me. FK coilovers are not great to say the least,I think you might spend more than you expect on this car, have you got a link to the advert?

The car I pointed out seems a better option, ready to race and no money to spend. Geoff steel are one of the better BMW teams out there and know there stuff, ticks all the boxes if you ask me.

Edited by cyclonic88 on Saturday 3rd January 19:15

[RobbieL]

cyclonic88 said:

The car seems to be a bit of a mixed bag if you ask me. FK coilovers are not great to say the least,I think you might spend more than you expect on this car, have you got a link to the advert?

The car I pointed out seems a better option, ready to race and no money to spend. Geoff steel are one of the better BMW teams out there and know stuff, ticks all the boxes if you ask me.

Piers, I can't access the link it just says error? Agreed, the coilovers are ste but I have some Leda ones from my previous M3 which was wiped out so was planning to put them on. Im still in 2 minds to be honest about what to do. If i spend 20k on a car it will mean I wont have the funds to be really competitive, especially with the normal running costs associated. This is why I have started thinking shoudl I explore a different championship? Is my budget too small? The main reason I looked at the Kumho is that I have had BMW's since I passed my test ranging from E30's to E46's and toyed with all of them so I know my way around the cars. If I went elsewhere I;d be pretty much starting from scratch.

Thanks for the comments though.

[cyclonic88]

No I don't think your budget is too small you just need to find the right car, Racecars direct, type in BMW it's the first car at the top of the list, red/orange thing. Kumho cars range greatly in specification, even within class A. This car could be an ideal starting point for class A. Could even be a race winner as it is. The key fact to being competitive is how good a driver you are!

[taffyracer]

Kumho is a great place to start, nice people and not cut throat, having spent 2 years developing an E36 from kumho b spec to full on britcar i think i can offer some sound advice here.....developing a car costs alot more than buying something decent in the 1st place, the spec looks very mediocre to be honest, personally unless you were buying it VERY cheap i wouldn't bother, shocks and other bits alone can cost 5k to get you something remotely close to being competive and if the shell hasn't been prepared properly then it's junk, there are lots of crap cars out there, i know of 2 extremely good ones for sale within your budget that are capable of winning in Kumho, do some more research would be my advice and buy on spec/history

Edited by taffyracer on Monday 5th January 20:11

[RobbieL]

Taffy, thanks for your input. I wouldn't mind checking out the cars you have knowledge of if you can pass me the details?

The car itself I'm buying for just under 10k which to me seems a good price? Unsure if it is now however?

[taffyracer]

i'll point the guys in the direction of this thread and let them contact you direct, 10k was what I had in mind so it sound like an ok buy but be prepared to shell out, you'd be better off buying one that is developed really wiht the right shocks etc from the start, get up to speed much faster and it works out cheaper

[RobbieL]

Hi Taffy,

Any joy with the people selling the cars you mentioned above as I'm looking to buy asap really.

Thanks
Rob

[m12_nathan]

RobbieL said:

Hi Taffy,

Any joy with the people selling the cars you mentioned above as I'm looking to buy asap really.

Thanks
Rob

I know of a good car for sale, he wants £13.5k for it, it does have AP 6 pots on it though so you'd need to sort that.

"Is anyone interested in a M3 GT rhd 1 of only,.... err a low number produced

Seriously this car would make the perfect ring tool my friend has decided to race Lotus on track and knock the whole M3 on the head...

when I last drove the GT it ate all others M3's for breakfast and then had some GT3's for lunch...

We have just spent 11,000 euros’ on a rebuild with the very reputable Tom Shirma and he will guarantee a 12 month warranty on the Engine!

Spec of the BMW as follows

1995 BMW M3 Coupe (E36).

Engine:

Standard block and crank (2998cc)
Evo Pistons
Evo Cylinder Head
Shrick camshafts
Evo Induction trumpets
Mapped ECU with no MAF
Free flow exhaust (Road legal)
Estimated power 340bhp (286 standard)

Transmission:

Upgraded gearbox internals
Schnitzer short shift kit fitted
Upgraded limited slip differential with lowered final drive ratio

Chassis:

AP 6 Pot brakes with 355mm disks front
Pagid RS29 pads front
Pagid RS42 pads rear
Braided brake hoses
SRF brake fluid
KW adjustable dampers and matching springs front and rear
Polyurethane suspension bushes
Adjustable camber plate / strut top mounts
18" wheels
Strut brace

Body:

Standard shell with welded FIA rollcage
Standard Glass, bumpers and trim
Weight removed from all non essential items (such as radio etc)
Interior removed
Standard ignition key starter
Doors lockable (manual with key)
x2 Sparco FIA race seat
x2 Willans 6 point FIA harness
Momo Steering wheel
Lifeline Fire extinguisher system
Electrial isolater
Varley red top battery in passenger compartment
Painted white, red and blue with some sponsor decals applied

General:

Is road legal
Runs standard road tyres
Has no heater

All we are looking for is 13,500gbp this is a steal for a car with a rebuilt race engine and 12 months warranty...

any questions please call me xxxxx - number removed as it wasn't previously posted on a public forum

cheers"

Let me know if you want his contact details.

[RobbieL]

m12_nathan said:

RobbieL said:

Hi Taffy,

Any joy with the people selling the cars you mentioned above as I'm looking to buy asap really.

Thanks
Rob

I know of a good car for sale, he wants £13.5k for it, it does have AP 6 pots on it though so you'd need to sort that.

"Is anyone interested in a M3 GT rhd 1 of only,.... err a low number produced

Seriously this car would make the perfect ring tool my friend has decided to race Lotus on track and knock the whole M3 on the head...

when I last drove the GT it ate all others M3's for breakfast and then had some GT3's for lunch...

We have just spent 11,000 euros’ on a rebuild with the very reputable Tom Shirma and he will guarantee a 12 month warranty on the Engine!

Spec of the BMW as follows

1995 BMW M3 Coupe (E36).

Engine:

Standard block and crank (2998cc)
Evo Pistons
Evo Cylinder Head
Shrick camshafts
Evo Induction trumpets
Mapped ECU with no MAF
Free flow exhaust (Road legal)
Estimated power 340bhp (286 standard)

Transmission:

Upgraded gearbox internals
Schnitzer short shift kit fitted
Upgraded limited slip differential with lowered final drive ratio

Chassis:

AP 6 Pot brakes with 355mm disks front
Pagid RS29 pads front
Pagid RS42 pads rear
Braided brake hoses
SRF brake fluid
KW adjustable dampers and matching springs front and rear
Polyurethane suspension bushes
Adjustable camber plate / strut top mounts
18" wheels
Strut brace

Body:

Standard shell with welded FIA rollcage
Standard Glass, bumpers and trim
Weight removed from all non essential items (such as radio etc)
Interior removed
Standard ignition key starter
Doors lockable (manual with key)
x2 Sparco FIA race seat
x2 Willans 6 point FIA harness
Momo Steering wheel
Lifeline Fire extinguisher system
Electrial isolater
Varley red top battery in passenger compartment
Painted white, red and blue with some sponsor decals applied

General:

Is road legal
Runs standard road tyres
Has no heater

All we are looking for is 13,500gbp this is a steal for a car with a rebuilt race engine and 12 months warranty...

any questions please call me xxxxx - number removed as it wasn't previously posted on a public forum

cheers"

Let me know if you want his contact details.

M12 Nathan,

That would be great if you could put me in touch?

Thanks

[jezrider]

I have this for sale if you are interested
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/856584.htm

[fergus]

contact Angus (Phatgixer on Ph), as he races an E36 which is used in britcar amongst other series.

He can fill you in with respect to costs, and what is and isn't really needed to be quick. Phil Bennett shares the drives with him and has helped develop the car. Phil was the development driver for the Caparo T1, and is a professional driver, so his opinions are based on more experience than most club racers. Worth an email.

[Foggy Fields]

Geoff Steel has 3x E36 and 1x E46 M3 race cars for sale at the moment, all race proven, with various options.
Give Will a ring on 01652 648429- There is no pressure and lots of good (experienced) advice.
Am I okay to put a web page link on here?? (New site still being updated)

[taffyracer]

RobbieL said:

Hi Taffy,

Any joy with the people selling the cars you mentioned above as I'm looking to buy asap really.

Thanks
Rob

I'll give them a shove!