TIN TOPS Series
Discussion
Hi Guys,
My friend and I are intersted in fielding a car in this series but just wanted to know where to find out detailed specs for the series in respect of car regulations etc.
We have a couple of options, but ideally we were thinking of going the turbo diesel hatchback route. This is not definate though and if anyone has any input good or bad about this route please post.
Does anybody have contact details so we can express an interest? Also if anybody has raced this series before it would be interested to have your opinion on it and how you got started!
Cheers
Matt
My friend and I are intersted in fielding a car in this series but just wanted to know where to find out detailed specs for the series in respect of car regulations etc.
We have a couple of options, but ideally we were thinking of going the turbo diesel hatchback route. This is not definate though and if anyone has any input good or bad about this route please post.
Does anybody have contact details so we can express an interest? Also if anybody has raced this series before it would be interested to have your opinion on it and how you got started!
Cheers
Matt
If your talking about the most well known one then the details can be found here. http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/ and Tin Tops is clearly guided from there.
Not sure about the turbo diesel legality in Tin Tops but I would suggest it holds no performance advantage in the race duration so it would be pure novelty value and maybe slightly lower fuel costs for the weekend only. Nothing wrong in that at all but just to be aware of it.
Andy97 is the man on here who knows everything you are ever likely to need to know about the Tin Tops series so its worth PMing him to clarify details or I'm sure he'll be along very soon anyway.
Not sure about the turbo diesel legality in Tin Tops but I would suggest it holds no performance advantage in the race duration so it would be pure novelty value and maybe slightly lower fuel costs for the weekend only. Nothing wrong in that at all but just to be aware of it.
Andy97 is the man on here who knows everything you are ever likely to need to know about the Tin Tops series so its worth PMing him to clarify details or I'm sure he'll be along very soon anyway.
Yep I'm here!
I race in CSCC Tin Tops and think its a cracking series and have no hesitation in recommending it as a good club series. Its great value for money and good track time at good tracks, including a 1 hour race at Spa in 2009. The series is a "mini-enduro" format with (usually) a 30 min practice and 40 min races for one or two drivers with a compulsory pit stop so that a singleton does not have an unfair advantage. The main advantage of a two driver entry is the ability to share costs.
The CSCC are a good club and put the enjoyment of its competitors first. The tech regs are very simple and straightforward to encourage max participation and there are sensible class structures. Only real tech stipulations are no turbos (except diesels and we'll come to that in a moment), no sequential gearboxes and original silhouette. Typical entries include:
Class A (1600-2 litre multi-valve) - Honda Integra and Civic, Renault Clio, MG ZR etc
Class B (1300-1600 multi-valve and 1600-2 litre 8v)- MG Maestro, Pug 205 1.9, Alfa 33 1.7, Honda CRX, BMW Mini
Class C (upto 1300 multi-valve and 1300-1600 8v) - Pug 205 1.6, Fiesta XR2, Alfa Sud, Fiat Uno
Class D (1000-1300 8V) - Metro, Mini
As for Turbo Diesels, they fit in to Class A. I can't remember one running to be honest but I might be wrong. I can't see one being competitive against the Honda Civic and Integra Type Rs but you would still enjoy the battle in the midfield, probably against some of the Class B & C cars.
Its difficult to recommend the sort of car to go for without knowing anything about budget or what your experience and aspirations are but IMHO the "best" cars for the series if you want to run at the front are Honda Integras or Civic Type Rs (but they will also be the more expensive cars to buy and run); a decent Pug 205 1.9 8 Valve or a Honda CRX would go well in Class B; and a Pug 205 1.6 or 106 is the car to have in Class C. (that said I run either a Fiat Uno or a 1500 Alfa 33 in Class C and have a tremendous time with good dicing at each meeting)
PM me if you more details - happy to chat.
Of course, if you are actually talking about the Dunlop Motorsport News Tin Tops series in the South East then someone else will have to help!
Regards
Andy97
I race in CSCC Tin Tops and think its a cracking series and have no hesitation in recommending it as a good club series. Its great value for money and good track time at good tracks, including a 1 hour race at Spa in 2009. The series is a "mini-enduro" format with (usually) a 30 min practice and 40 min races for one or two drivers with a compulsory pit stop so that a singleton does not have an unfair advantage. The main advantage of a two driver entry is the ability to share costs.
The CSCC are a good club and put the enjoyment of its competitors first. The tech regs are very simple and straightforward to encourage max participation and there are sensible class structures. Only real tech stipulations are no turbos (except diesels and we'll come to that in a moment), no sequential gearboxes and original silhouette. Typical entries include:
Class A (1600-2 litre multi-valve) - Honda Integra and Civic, Renault Clio, MG ZR etc
Class B (1300-1600 multi-valve and 1600-2 litre 8v)- MG Maestro, Pug 205 1.9, Alfa 33 1.7, Honda CRX, BMW Mini
Class C (upto 1300 multi-valve and 1300-1600 8v) - Pug 205 1.6, Fiesta XR2, Alfa Sud, Fiat Uno
Class D (1000-1300 8V) - Metro, Mini
As for Turbo Diesels, they fit in to Class A. I can't remember one running to be honest but I might be wrong. I can't see one being competitive against the Honda Civic and Integra Type Rs but you would still enjoy the battle in the midfield, probably against some of the Class B & C cars.
Its difficult to recommend the sort of car to go for without knowing anything about budget or what your experience and aspirations are but IMHO the "best" cars for the series if you want to run at the front are Honda Integras or Civic Type Rs (but they will also be the more expensive cars to buy and run); a decent Pug 205 1.9 8 Valve or a Honda CRX would go well in Class B; and a Pug 205 1.6 or 106 is the car to have in Class C. (that said I run either a Fiat Uno or a 1500 Alfa 33 in Class C and have a tremendous time with good dicing at each meeting)
PM me if you more details - happy to chat.
Of course, if you are actually talking about the Dunlop Motorsport News Tin Tops series in the South East then someone else will have to help!
Regards
Andy97
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 30th December 16:15
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 30th December 16:24
yes its the CSCC Tin Tops.
Thanks for the info so far Andy very helpful! I have been on the website and will follow your instructions.
An interesting point made is that a 1.9 TDI Golf for example wouldn't be as competetive as say the Civics/Integra's, I hadn't thought of this properly as before checking out some of the regs i thought we may be able to lightly modify i.e re-map etc but this seems to be a no go area from the site.
Anyone else who competes it would be great to hear from you with your opinions and how you got started. I mean one thing I would like to know is are any of you associated with companies that prep your cars and what kind of figures do you pay to keep you in the game? Or do you guys sort your cars out yourself?
Thanks for the info so far Andy very helpful! I have been on the website and will follow your instructions.
An interesting point made is that a 1.9 TDI Golf for example wouldn't be as competetive as say the Civics/Integra's, I hadn't thought of this properly as before checking out some of the regs i thought we may be able to lightly modify i.e re-map etc but this seems to be a no go area from the site.
Anyone else who competes it would be great to hear from you with your opinions and how you got started. I mean one thing I would like to know is are any of you associated with companies that prep your cars and what kind of figures do you pay to keep you in the game? Or do you guys sort your cars out yourself?
What you have to remember about a Diesel is that it is inherently harder on front tyres than petrol versions of the same car. So no mater what power etc you give your Golf TDI within the rules or otherwise you'll need more power or any other performance advantage than your competition to beat them over more than the first 15/20 minutes. You can engineer around this loss but not within Tin Tops rules.
Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
Simon Mason said:
What you have to remember about a Diesel is that it is inherently harder on front tyres than petrol versions of the same car. So no mater what power etc you give your Golf TDI within the rules or otherwise you'll need more power or any other performance advantage than your competition to beat them over more than the first 15/20 minutes. You can engineer around this loss but not within Tin Tops rules.
Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
I don't ever recall any CSCC series having rules, that's their main claim to fame. As for a turbo diesel not being competitive, I remember a Golf TDi racing with the other Tin Tops and winning it's class and lapping the Brands Indy in around 55secs which would be more than a match for any CSCC Tin Top entry. Don't forget that you can get masses of torque with a diesel which can far outweigh any BHP disadvantage.Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
falcemob said:
Simon Mason said:
What you have to remember about a Diesel is that it is inherently harder on front tyres than petrol versions of the same car. So no mater what power etc you give your Golf TDI within the rules or otherwise you'll need more power or any other performance advantage than your competition to beat them over more than the first 15/20 minutes. You can engineer around this loss but not within Tin Tops rules.
Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
I don't ever recall any CSCC series having rules, that's their main claim to fame. As for a turbo diesel not being competitive, I remember a Golf TDi racing with the other Tin Tops and winning it's class and lapping the Brands Indy in around 55secs which would be more than a match for any CSCC Tin Top entry. Don't forget that you can get masses of torque with a diesel which can far outweigh any BHP disadvantage.Tin Tops is very much a run it yourself series. Some people have support from local garage/service centre operations but its by no means an advantage unless like me you don't like getting your hands dirty.
That doesnt make the diesel a bad car by the way, I actually think we need more diesels racing, but it does make it ultimately more of a gamble for success but sometimes thats the joy of motor racing. Going against the grain and doing well is always great to see.
falcemob said:
I don't ever recall any CSCC series having rules, that's their main claim to fame. As for a turbo diesel not being competitive, I remember a Golf TDi racing with the other Tin Tops and winning it's class and lapping the Brands Indy in around 55secs which would be more than a match for any CSCC Tin Top entry. Don't forget that you can get masses of torque with a diesel which can far outweigh any BHP disadvantage.
CSCC does have rules, they can be found here for Tin Tops: http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/documents/Gr...They are limited in scope on purpose to ensure max participation is possible. That said, real cheque book racing is discouraged, this a club series, and I would guess that if someone turned up in a Super Tourer and blew everyone away, then they may not get an entry next time!!
Back to the Diesel discussion. I am not sure why you think that a TDi can't be re-mapped - I don't see anything in the regs that forbids it. Changing the induction system is not allowed but that usually means that you can't fit throttle bodies to a car that was originally supplied with carbs!! Talk to the Tin Tops co-ordinator, he will clarify but I can't see anything against it and the club would love to have more TDis out to play. It may be that a TDi is not ultimately super competitive against the Class A Integras and the like but I would guess that you would still have an excellent battle against the Class B folks. Perhaps the Turbo Diesels should be in Class B rather than Class A - it may be a more suitable Class equivalence.
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 31st December 08:06
slimboyfat said:
yes its the CSCC Tin Tops.
one thing I would like to know is are any of you associated with companies that prep your cars and what kind of figures do you pay to keep you in the game? Or do you guys sort your cars out yourself?
I didn't answer this question, sorry. There will always be a mix of approaches to how a car is run. Some people run with a small team, some people are in the garage trade and run the car themselves or via the business, some have mates helping them and plenty run and prep the car themselves. I pay a chap to help me out each time I race (and share the costs with my co-driver) because I am mechanically incompetent but it's good value in terms of the number of times he has got me running when I would have been stuck otherwise with a relatively simple problem.one thing I would like to know is are any of you associated with companies that prep your cars and what kind of figures do you pay to keep you in the game? Or do you guys sort your cars out yourself?
People will also help each other out but you won't see many big money teams!! Tin Tops is a good value club racing series.
The CSCC will have a stand at the Autosport show - have a chat to the guys on that.
I race with Andy97 and think Tintops is great fun and super value for money. From experience I think you will find the cheapest option to get started is to buy an existing race car rather than convert a road car unless you are very handy with the spanners.
To join Andy and myself towards the more exclusive, clubbable rear of the grid you are looking at £1k - £5k for a car and from then on up to maybe £20k for a shiny Honda. If this is your first venture in motorsport don't spend a fortune on a car as the first year tends to have a few unexpected expenses plus you need to get to know the circuits.
And in respect of a Diesel - just say no....all that smoke and rattle when you could have the lovely sound of an Alfa or 16V engine
Have fun
To join Andy and myself towards the more exclusive, clubbable rear of the grid you are looking at £1k - £5k for a car and from then on up to maybe £20k for a shiny Honda. If this is your first venture in motorsport don't spend a fortune on a car as the first year tends to have a few unexpected expenses plus you need to get to know the circuits.
And in respect of a Diesel - just say no....all that smoke and rattle when you could have the lovely sound of an Alfa or 16V engine
Have fun
Chaps
I'm consideringmy racing options this year and something competitive, but not bank breaking would be good! To this end, we (a few of us) have a mildly race prepped Elise 111s (the old type). We raced it in the Britcar 24 hour class 5 against MG and Clio etc.
I read the rules for Tin Tops referred to above and was not sure if the Elise would qualify or not. It's 1.8l, standard engine, standard box etc. It's still road registered and has a number plate and tax disc (which we raced it in for amusement value!). What do you think, does it qualify?
Failing that, any other good ideas for series to compete in with similar approaches?
Thanks, James
I'm consideringmy racing options this year and something competitive, but not bank breaking would be good! To this end, we (a few of us) have a mildly race prepped Elise 111s (the old type). We raced it in the Britcar 24 hour class 5 against MG and Clio etc.
I read the rules for Tin Tops referred to above and was not sure if the Elise would qualify or not. It's 1.8l, standard engine, standard box etc. It's still road registered and has a number plate and tax disc (which we raced it in for amusement value!). What do you think, does it qualify?
Failing that, any other good ideas for series to compete in with similar approaches?
Thanks, James
jimmyslr said:
Chaps
I'm considering my racing options this year and something competitive, but not bank breaking would be good! To this end, we (a few of us) have a mildly race prepped Elise 111s (the old type). We raced it in the Britcar 24 hour class 5 against MG and Clio etc.
I read the rules for Tin Tops referred to above and was not sure if the Elise would qualify or not. It's 1.8l, standard engine, standard box etc. It's still road registered and has a number plate and tax disc (which we raced it in for amusement value!). What do you think, does it qualify?
Failing that, any other good ideas for series to compete in with similar approaches?
Thanks, James
Hmmm, the CSCC Tin Tops series is for saloons and hatchbacks so an Elise probably doesn't qualify I'm afraid! The club run a sister series for "Future Classics" though, which is run on the same 40 min, one or two driver, mini-enduro basis and it may be more suitable in that. Trouble is that that series has an age cut off date of 1990! However, I think the club runs an invitation class in its series so it may let guest cars participate - I know that an MGF has appeared on this basis. I really would advise you to contact the CSCC club office and ask to run an Elise as an Invitation car in the "Future Classics" series, it would be competitive against many of the cars that run in FC. They can only say "no". Good luck.I'm considering my racing options this year and something competitive, but not bank breaking would be good! To this end, we (a few of us) have a mildly race prepped Elise 111s (the old type). We raced it in the Britcar 24 hour class 5 against MG and Clio etc.
I read the rules for Tin Tops referred to above and was not sure if the Elise would qualify or not. It's 1.8l, standard engine, standard box etc. It's still road registered and has a number plate and tax disc (which we raced it in for amusement value!). What do you think, does it qualify?
Failing that, any other good ideas for series to compete in with similar approaches?
Thanks, James
Failing that the CSCC nearly always run a Sports Vs Saloon challenge race at all of its meetings. This is a second chance to race for some of the regular competitors but is also a chance for other drivers to have an individual race even if they have not competed previously in the meeting. I haven't competed in one of these so I can't remember whether they are 15 min, 20 min or mini-enduro formats but an Elise would definately be welcome in these races.
Regards
Andy
Edited by andy97 on Friday 2nd January 13:47
fergus said:
phatgixer said:
Try Castle Combe saloons or the LMA Eurosaloons. Both very friendly series.
Apart from phat boys in M3s trying to push you off the track whilst lapping the Renault clio slugs! 
LMA is almost run what ya brung, whereas the CC series is slightly stricter on regs.
andy97 and kickstart, which car are you in? I am one of the girls in the white fiesta!!! I would absolutely recommend the series to anyone, it was my first season racing and everyone was really welcoming and encouraging, I enjoyed it tremendously - as I am sure everyone else did, because when we were racing they were guaranteed not to come last - thats our special position! The CSCC is a great club. We run the car ourselves, it cost less that £2k to buy fully race prepped - the only thing we have replaced all season is the gearbox so its been really cheap to run too. Roll on next season! We can come last all over again.
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