Recommend me a championship!

[RobM77]

I'm thinking about what to race next season and wondered if anyone had any ideas for me? My criteria are:

• Under £20k for the car, preferably nearer £10k, with no daft running costs like £4k engine rebuilds each season.

• Rear wheel drive with good handling and reasonable performance (i.e. low 50s or less around Brands or 1:10 or less around Silverstone Nat).

• No classes, unless there's a well supported fastest class I can run in (I don't enjoy aspiring to winning a race, but knowing that "winning" sees me come 10th, or indeed not battling for positions, because you've got other classes all around you).

• Professional teams allowed

• A race weekend plus team support available for around £1,000. With most teams charging around £700 for a weekend in most championships, that means race entry fees around the £200 mark.

• Reasonably safe. This means the driving as well as the cars!

My circumstances have changed because I used to go racing with my Dad, but over the last two years he's become less and less keen on towing me to the circuits and supporting me there (understandably!). With the prospect of paying for team support myself, suddenly the £550 race entry fees in my present championship don't look too appealing!

My current thoughts are Monoposto, 750MC Formula 4 and the Elise Trophy. Any ideas on those or other championships?

Thank you in advance for any responses

[BenElliottRacing]

MAX 5 (although laptimes may be slightly off what you're looking for)

Club Ginetta

Westfield Aerorace (2 classes but they eventually want just 1 + the cars are pretty even)

Caterham - various classes you'd have to research

Radical - club series running in great and british.

I'm sure many others will be recommended too

[RobM77]

Thanks

MX5s are indeed a bit slow for me I'm afraid. I've not heard good things about the handling of Ginettas - not sure whether they'd be worth a look? Radicals - I had a ride in an SR4 a year or two ago in the pouring rain and it was just the most amazing thing ever I've heard that they cost a small fortune to run though with engine rebuilds etc. Is that true? I can't afford the arrive and drive hire costs that I've seen quoted for them.

My current favoured option is to race in the 750MC in a Formula Ford. I've found a very knowledgeable and experienced guy that will run me in a Zetec, and he's even got one that I can buy. I just thought it would be prudent to open my eyes and scan around a bit given that I haven't committed to anything yet.

Converting my Caterham to grads spec is not something I'd thought about before... I've got a Roadsport A car and had been running in that championship.

[modena46]

Hello there. I would strongly recommend a new race series opening within the 750 motor club. It's The Raw Striker race series. It's yet to have a proper title, but we're talking a very well specified seven type car famed for it's racing heritage and success. better than any locost out there the series includes all the major circuits of the uk and a very competitive car even on it's own. i promises some very good racing in a proper car. contact Mel @ Raw on 01432 371169. He'll be happy to tell you all about it. Orders for next year are taking place now.

[RobM77]

modena46 said:

Hello there. I would strongly recommend a new race series opening within the 750 motor club. It's The Raw Striker race series. It's yet to have a proper title, but we're talking a very well specified seven type car famed for it's racing heritage and success. better than any locost out there the series includes all the major circuits of the uk and a very competitive car even on it's own. i promises some very good racing in a proper car. contact Mel @ Raw on 01432 371169. He'll be happy to tell you all about it. Orders for next year are taking place now.

Thanks. I don't want to start a thread on Caterhams vs replicas, but if I was to race a 7 type car it would be a Caterham I'm afraid <ducks and awaits the response!!>

[modena46]

Hey, That's fine with me. Just letting you know about a series that isn't as yet widely known about. I'm just in the loop i guess.

[andy97]

I would certainly recommend something like a F Ford Zetec in either F4 or Monoposto (or both - a F Ford Zetec is eligible for F4 & Monoposto 1800). I really don't think that you can get better performance per pound. The engines are bullet proof & if you want to run on a budget then you can get second hand tyres from the National F Ford teams for about £5-10 a cover.

Edited by andy97 on Monday 11th August 15:42

[Scuffers]

RobM77 said:

I'm thinking about what to race next season and wondered if anyone had any ideas for me? My criteria are:

• Under £20k for the car, preferably nearer £10k, with no daft running costs like £4k engine rebuilds each season.

• Rear wheel drive with good handling and reasonable performance (i.e. low 50s or less around Brands or 1:10 or less around Silverstone Nat).

• No classes, unless there's a well supported fastest class I can run in (I don't enjoy aspiring to winning a race, but knowing that "winning" sees me come 10th, or indeed not battling for positions, because you've got other classes all around you).

• Professional teams allowed

• A race weekend plus team support available for around £1,000. With most teams charging around £700 for a weekend in most championships, that means race entry fees around the £200 mark.

• Reasonably safe. This means the driving as well as the cars!

My circumstances have changed because I used to go racing with my Dad, but over the last two years he's become less and less keen on towing me to the circuits and supporting me there (understandably!). With the prospect of paying for team support myself, suddenly the £550 race entry fees in my present championship don't look too appealing!

My current thoughts are Monoposto, 750MC Formula 4 and the Elise Trophy. Any ideas on those or other championships?

Thank you in advance for any responses

to be painfully honest, I don't think you can meet all of those criteria within the budget you stated. I would argue that £1K weekends when you are paying for professional support is just not going to happen.

Given your lap-time target’s and no mixed classes stance, you are looking either single seater’s / Caterham type cars OR expensive (relatively) sports cars.

Let me explain that better, a typical weekend is going to cost:

Entry fee’s – ~£200-300
Fuel bill (race car) ~£30
Fuel bill (road car) ~£50-150 (depends where you live and then race)
Day’s support (basic stuff) £500-£1000 – this is *just* the stuff at the trackside

Then you have to factor in consumables on the car, want to go faster, your going to need tyres, yes you can make them last, or buy second hand, but then your never going to be competitive, brakes, same story, (clearly some single seaters are not going to chew though them anything like as fast as a heavy sportscar, but they still have to be changed at some point), etc etc etc.

Then you need to factor in routine maintenance, this s something many people ignore, skip, assume they can do all themselves, etc etc. and whist you can get away with it for a short time, it will come and bite you, does not matter how well you can drive or how good your trackside support is, poor preparation will always come and bite you, normally in the wallet.

Now, I am not saying that you cannot go racing on the cheap, but I would suggest the criteria you have laid out is un-achievable sensibly unless you do not have to pay for labour on *anything*.


Elise Throphy class A is a good cheap place to run, but you will not be at the front (Class C will be) and running a class A car you can realistically drive the car to the cct and race it (regs demand MOT compliance etc).

Edited by Scuffers on Monday 11th August 15:53

[RobM77]

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

I'm thinking about what to race next season and wondered if anyone had any ideas for me? My criteria are:

• Under £20k for the car, preferably nearer £10k, with no daft running costs like £4k engine rebuilds each season.

• Rear wheel drive with good handling and reasonable performance (i.e. low 50s or less around Brands or 1:10 or less around Silverstone Nat).

• No classes, unless there's a well supported fastest class I can run in (I don't enjoy aspiring to winning a race, but knowing that "winning" sees me come 10th, or indeed not battling for positions, because you've got other classes all around you).

• Professional teams allowed

• A race weekend plus team support available for around £1,000. With most teams charging around £700 for a weekend in most championships, that means race entry fees around the £200 mark.

• Reasonably safe. This means the driving as well as the cars!

My circumstances have changed because I used to go racing with my Dad, but over the last two years he's become less and less keen on towing me to the circuits and supporting me there (understandably!). With the prospect of paying for team support myself, suddenly the £550 race entry fees in my present championship don't look too appealing!

My current thoughts are Monoposto, 750MC Formula 4 and the Elise Trophy. Any ideas on those or other championships?

Thank you in advance for any responses

to be painfully honest, I don't think you can meet all of those criteria within the budget you stated. I would argue that £1K weekends when you are paying for professional support is just not going to happen.

Given your lap-time target’s and no mixed classes stance, you are looking either single seater’s / Caterham type cars OR expensive (relatively) sports cars.

Let me explain that better, a typical weekend is going to cost:

Entry fee’s – ~£200-300
Fuel bill (race car) ~£30
Fuel bill (road car) ~£50-150 (depends where you live and then race)
Day’s support (basic stuff) £500-£1000 – this is *just* the stuff at the trackside

Then you have to factor in consumables on the car, want to go faster, your going to need tyres, yes you can make them last, or buy second hand, but then your never going to be competitive, brakes, same story, (clearly some single seaters are not going to chew though them anything like as fast as a heavy sportscar, but they still have to be changed at some point), etc etc etc.

Then you need to factor in routine maintenance, this s something many people ignore, skip, assume they can do all themselves, etc etc. and whist you can get away with it for a short time, it will come and bite you, does not matter how well you can drive or how good your trackside support is, poor preparation will always come and bite you, normally in the wallet.

Now, I am not saying that you cannot go racing on the cheap, but I would suggest the criteria you have laid out is un-achievable sensibly unless you do not have to pay for labour on *anything*.


Elise Throphy class A is a good cheap place to run, but you will not be at the front (Class C will be) and running a class A car you can realistically drive the car to the cct and race it (regs demand MOT compliance etc).

Edited by Scuffers on Monday 11th August 15:53

Sorry, I realise that I'll need to pay for consumables and maintain the car etc. I've been racing for 8 years now so I'm used to all the costs involved. I was mainly focusing on the costs over a weekend at being limited to £1k. The reason I'm not continuing in Caterhams is that the race entry fees are £550 each and the championship registration for the year is almost £400. I only do 4 or 5 races a year (and only ever plan to for budget reasons), so that's £650 a race just on entry fees! That then leaves me with a very small budget for paying for team support. 750MC F4 races are around £200 to enter, and the championship is under £100 to register for I think, so that leaves me a lot more cash spare to pay for the team support that I now need.

[Scuffers]

RobM77 said:

Sorry, I realise that I'll need to pay for consumables and maintain the car etc. I've been racing for 8 years now so I'm used to all the costs involved. I was mainly focusing on the costs over a weekend at being limited to £1k. The reason I'm not continuing in Caterhams is that the race entry fees are £550 each and the championship registration for the year is almost £400. I only do 4 or 5 races a year (and only ever plan to for budget reasons), so that's £650 a race just on entry fees! That then leaves me with a very small budget for paying for team support. 750MC F4 races are around £200 to enter, and the championship is under £100 to register for I think, so that leaves me a lot more cash spare to pay for the team support that I now need.

Point taken...

that said, a Caterham is probably one of the cheapest cars out there running costs wise....

[RobM77]

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

Sorry, I realise that I'll need to pay for consumables and maintain the car etc. I've been racing for 8 years now so I'm used to all the costs involved. I was mainly focusing on the costs over a weekend at being limited to £1k. The reason I'm not continuing in Caterhams is that the race entry fees are £550 each and the championship registration for the year is almost £400. I only do 4 or 5 races a year (and only ever plan to for budget reasons), so that's £650 a race just on entry fees! That then leaves me with a very small budget for paying for team support. 750MC F4 races are around £200 to enter, and the championship is under £100 to register for I think, so that leaves me a lot more cash spare to pay for the team support that I now need.

Point taken...

that said, a Caterham is probably one of the cheapest cars out there running costs wise....

yep! Tyres, brake pads and wheel bearings last for ages. That said, my engine's been 3 years without a rebuild, and at testing at Combe in March I was coming out of the bends behind a faster driver that I know, and we were matched up to the top of 3rd gear, but from then on he started pulling out a few tenths on every straight. So they may be standard engines, but having rebuilds and refreshes makes all the difference at that level!

Mind you, a Formula Ford is lighter so I would hope it would be just as good if not a little better on these components? Unless they're more fragile and expensive so wear out like a heavier car's would?

[Obiwonkeyblokey]

If you were flexible on one or two of your requirements ( mainly the class based one) you would find almost everything you were looking for in the Dunlop TVR Challenge.

...but then again im biased

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th August 17:57

[RobM77]

Obiwonkeyblokey said:

If you were flexible on one or two of your requirements ( mainly the class based one) you would find almost everything you were looking for in the Dunlop TVR Challenge.

...but then again im biased

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th August 17:57

I don't mind there being classes if I'm in the fastest one

I was on track with some TVRs testing last year. They looked like great fun. Most were slower than my Caterham, but the Tuscans looked like fun! I used to love watching the one make series when I was a teenager - sparked off years of fascination with TVRs.

[lanan]

Rob.
You have mail.
Graham

[Obiwonkeyblokey]

RobM77 said:

Obiwonkeyblokey said:

If you were flexible on one or two of your requirements ( mainly the class based one) you would find almost everything you were looking for in the Dunlop TVR Challenge.

...but then again im biased

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th August 17:57

I don't mind there being classes if I'm in the fastest one

I was on track with some TVRs testing last year. They looked like great fun. Most were slower than my Caterham, but the Tuscans looked like fun! I used to love watching the one make series when I was a teenager - sparked off years of fascination with TVRs.

You would struggle to run a tuscan on the budget in Class A. But there are a couple of class B tuscans available and other class B converted road cars such as Griff 500's etc.

[stockhatcher]

lanan said:

Rob.
You have mail.
Graham

Graham are you saying i could drive for your team for a grand a weekend.....



where do i sign

to the OP - I've worked with Graham over the winter... can throughly recommend him, his experience is immense, runs a good team too.

ps Graham, i need to speak to you soon about new tyres we'll be running in stock hatch next year and their effects etc etc...

[RobM77]

Thanks for the responses so far. Graham: I will respond to your mail soon thanks.

My issue with classes is a psychological one. I used to race in the Metro Cup in Class B and it was great fun. However, no matter how well I did I would never actually "win". Yes, I'd get 10 points and a Class trophy, but I wouldn't have that feeling of staring at an empty track on pole, or finishing ahead of everyone else, or indeed standing on the podium and being listed as the winner in Autosport! Those are important things for me in sport - the excitement of competition is fed by the desire to win, and it's better to know you've won instinctively than just know it because of letters on the results sheet read with a ruler

[Scuffers]

RobM77 said:

My issue with classes is a psychological one. I used to race in the Metro Cup in Class B and it was great fun. However, no matter how well I did I would never actually "win". Yes, I'd get 10 points and a Class trophy, but I wouldn't have that feeling of staring at an empty track on pole, or finishing ahead of everyone else, or indeed standing on the podium and being listed as the winner in Autosport! Those are important things for me in sport - the excitement of competition is fed by the desire to win, and it's better to know you've won instinctively than just know it because of letters on the results sheet read with a ruler

whilst I can see where your comming from, unless you pick a single class/formular, running in the fastest class of any serise is gloing to cost disproportionally more than the lower classes.

even if you stick to single class stuff, the budgets at the front of the grid usually are an order appart from the mid-field, even if they run control tyres/selaed engines/etc, the costs at the front still add up...

I am struggling to see where you can do £1K weekends and still be at the front...

[RobM77]

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

My issue with classes is a psychological one. I used to race in the Metro Cup in Class B and it was great fun. However, no matter how well I did I would never actually "win". Yes, I'd get 10 points and a Class trophy, but I wouldn't have that feeling of staring at an empty track on pole, or finishing ahead of everyone else, or indeed standing on the podium and being listed as the winner in Autosport! Those are important things for me in sport - the excitement of competition is fed by the desire to win, and it's better to know you've won instinctively than just know it because of letters on the results sheet read with a ruler

whilst I can see where your comming from, unless you pick a single class/formular, running in the fastest class of any serise is gloing to cost disproportionally more than the lower classes.

even if you stick to single class stuff, the budgets at the front of the grid usually are an order appart from the mid-field, even if they run control tyres/selaed engines/etc, the costs at the front still add up...

I am struggling to see where you can do £1K weekends and still be at the front...

Hmm. Maybe I should just give up racing then? I've been toying with the idea of buying a Caterham R500 for track days, but I'd just miss the competition. Driving round tracks is fun, but so is hiring a squash court for practise - it's just not the same as competition against others (racing) and yourself (timing).

I've discounted sprints because I don't want a weekend's motorsport to consist of a few 45 second runs.

I definitely should have become hooked on tennis or something instead

[Wanstead]

Have you had a look at Sports 2000?

Competitive cars can be had within your budget and the Pinto engine can be run for a couple of seasons at least before a rebuild.
Last season I was into the 49’s at Brands (don’t know about Silverstone Nat – we only do the full GP circuit)
Ok so there are 3 classes but we have had outright wins from each class this year.
Professional teams allowed, but no professional drivers.
I have arranged a part support deal within that budget. The team looks after the car and preps it before the race, then delivers it to the circuit. I don’t pay for race day support, my Mrs and myself do all the work ourselves but the team will advise and help if I really need it. As RobM77 said consumables and any extra work between races are on top of that. You may be able to arrange a flexable deal with one of the teams to suit youre circumstances.
Driving standards are enforced most vigorously and body contact is not tolerated.
If you find yourself at one of our rounds, come along for a chat you’ll find a whole grid of drivers ready to answer any questions you have.
Andy

Edited by Wanstead on Tuesday 12th August 13:52