Proposed new devices regulation

[GlobalRacer]

I'm having a hard time understanding what the issue is with receiving a GPS signal? Many motorsport dashes and data logging systems do it. MSUK themselves promote the Garmin Catalyst which wouldn't be allowed under this regulation.

At least clubs can override it within their regs but, as I say, I'm missing what the issue is to start with.

https://motorsportuk.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp...

Edited by GlobalRacer on Thursday 8th August 16:28

[mmm-five]

It looks like they've just clarified it from the very broad "all phones/tablets are banned", to "all devices capable of receiving a GPS signal are banned unless the organising club says so".

So where the ban was for all phones/tablets without exception (which wasn't policed very well anyway) but didn't mention GPS devices, this just expands that to all devices that can utilise GPS and now add a specific exception on a club/organiser basis.

Maybe the issue was different organisers interpreting the rules in their own way and letting some racers get away with things that were not explicitly excluded in the MSUK rules?

Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 8th August 13:02

[n3il123]

Just out of idle curiosity what is the purpose of the rule?

[geeks]

n3il123 said:

Just out of idle curiosity what is the purpose of the rule?

To stop phones and tablets turning into projectiles or hand grenades in on track incidents

[GlobalRacer]

geeks said:

To stop phones and tablets turning into projectiles or hand grenades in on track incidents

Bit OTT to ban any device that receives a GPS signal if that is the intention surely? My dashboard is fixed very firmly in my car but uses a GPS signal for lap timing and data collection.

Looks like they're leaving it in the hands of clubs to define which devices are allowable rather than doing the job themselves.

[geeks]

GlobalRacer said:

geeks said:

To stop phones and tablets turning into projectiles or hand grenades in on track incidents

Bit OTT to ban any device that receives a GPS signal if that is the intention surely? My dashboard is fixed very firmly in my car but uses a GPS signal for lap timing and data collection.

Looks like they're leaving it in the hands of clubs to define which devices are allowable rather than doing the job themselves.

The reg was clamped further to deal with the "its not a mobile phone its an iPod/[insert non cellular device here]" brigade. Series/Championship regulations will stipulate something like:

All vehicles should conform to Q11.3.1 with the exception of dedicated lap timers such as AIM Solo or Racelogic style devices, the organisers retain the right to have a competitor remove any device that they feel does not meet this criteria. Any devices fitted to the vehicle should be on a mount of solid construction yada yada yada....

[stevieturbo]

MSUK being bellends once again.

GPS data can be vital information for the ecu, as well as for safety with GPS trackers etc.

Whoever dreamt up this rule, must be very very "special" indeed.

[freedman]

The reasoning used is beyond ridiculous.

“these devices should not be permitted and present their own risks and at times advantages to Drivers who use them”

What next, a ban on new tyres? After all they offer an advantage, to those who use them

Is the expectation that the BRSCC, BARC, 750 etc allow fitment of, vbox, aim, Garmin Catalyst etc in regs for each event

If so, what exactly will be excluded?

• Also most of these devices are also used to provide the mandated video footage required by organising clubs for use by race officials

Edited by freedman on Friday 9th August 06:45

[geeks]

freedman said:

The reasoning used is beyond ridiculous.

“these devices should not be permitted and present their own risks and at times advantages to Drivers who use them”

What next, a ban on new tyres? After all they offer an advantage, to those who use them

Is the expectation that the BRSCC, BARC, 750 etc allow fitment of, vbox, aim, Garmin Catalyst etc in regs for each event

If so, what exactly will be excluded?

• Also most of these devices are also used to provide the mandated video footage required by organising clubs for use by race officials

Edited by freedman on Friday 9th August 06:45

Oh for fks sake grow up. The regs will be easily written I have given an example, it will take all the clubs 5 minutes to write what needs writing, christ why is every being such a fking primidone about this?

[freedman]

geeks said:

Oh for fks sake grow up. The regs will be easily written I have given an example, it will take all the clubs 5 minutes to write what needs writing, christ why is every being such a fking primidone about this?

I'm trying to discuss an issue that would affect many amateur racers

At this stage we have no idea whether the organising clubs will or wont write acceptance of GPS devices into their regs

And you want to be abusive rather than discuss the issue like an adult.

[clubracing]

I always thought the purpose of 'no phones or tablets' was to stop devices which have no hard fixing points being used, and potentially coming loose in a crash.

If the purpose of this rule change though is to now make it easier for organisers to stop drivers having the advantage of live lap, split, and delta times in-car, then this is just closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted. The time to do this would've been 10 years ago.

The cost of GPS lap timers and data loggers has come down massively in that time, to the point where almost everyone uses one in some form even at club level, so I can't see there will be any series not including an exemption to this in their own regs.

[geeks]

freedman said:

geeks said:

Oh for fks sake grow up. The regs will be easily written I have given an example, it will take all the clubs 5 minutes to write what needs writing, christ why is every being such a fking primidone about this?

I'm trying to discuss an issue that would affect many amateur racers

At this stage we have no idea whether the organising clubs will or wont write acceptance of GPS devices into their regs

And you want to be abusive rather than discuss the issue like an adult.

I already wrote the sensible part earlier in the thread. So now I am simply acting like everyone else.

My remark was flippant because before anyone has even seen anything about what the clubs are doing they are just "wah, wah wah!" all over Farcebook and here as well.

The reg is designed to stop Mobile Phones, Tablets etc from becoming missiles and hand grenades (crush the battery in a smart phone and see what happens) in the event of an accident. There have been more than one occasion where someone has live streamed their race from inside their car. Then when the mobile phone ban was bought in, people circumvented it with none cellular devices that did the same thing such as iPods. So because no one could be trusted MSUK did this, the idea being clubs can simply include whats allowed rather than exclude, a regulation that is disgustingly simple to create, I know, I wrote the regs for more than one Championship and have been involved in the organisation/club side for well over a decade.

Its a storm in a teacup but everyone is getting all stroppy and stompy feet about it and I just don't understand why. But then I didn't understand the who-ha when they bought in mandatory HANS devices and everyone went apest then too.

[GlobalRacer]

So why not just write a regulation that states whatever device is used must be securely fixed? It's perfectly possible to mount a device like a Solo so that it becomes a missile in exactly the same way just as it's perfectly possible to mount a phone/tablet completely secure.

As for batteries Solos are rechargeable and have the same type of batteries as well. I expect other dedicated devices do as well.

I get the data bit (even though it's incredibly badly worded) as a mobile phone etc receiving a call, alert, message etc can be very distracting to a driver.

I don't get why "utilising" (whatever they mean by that) a GPS signal is an issue?

You say it's so easy to write the regulation but if it was so easy they wouldn't have had to amend the original regulation would they?

Edited by GlobalRacer on Friday 9th August 12:28

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

you'd need to define permanently fixed, and then be able to prove it or otherwise.

Anyways, I always thought the ban was to do with people potentially using a mobile phone during a race, and as such would parrot the highway code.

I think it's back to the T100 lap timer for me?

[freedman]

Suggestion I've seen is this was brought about by the driver of a Mini who broke down at the BTCC Thruxton meeting and then proceeded to get his phone out live on TV

Maybe they just police things like that correctly rather than write new rules (assuming that was the trigger)

[vjay48]

I assume this is to make sure that racelogic/ garmin etc are fixed securely, not suckers on windscreen/velcro etc. not mobile phones etc taped to dashboard. Race Logic do very substantial roll bar mounts with 2 jubilee clips. Does this proposal include clerk to driver radios, we have drivers with them loose under the seat. or in their overalls!

Edited by vjay48 on Friday 9th August 15:56

[CanoeSniffer]

To be fair I have raced in series where the regs get copied/pasted every year without due care and then followed to the n’th degree by very eager scrutes, so as it’s currently worded I can see this being a problem.

(Hilarious example being in 2021 when a new championship eligibility scrutineer actually bothered to read the regs for the first time in probably 15 years- and found the clause about every car on the grid requiring MOT standard turn signals. Cue a very long and protracted parc ferme at Oulton Park where serious consideration was given to disqualifying half the grid from the results for not conforming to this dusty old rule that had long been forgotten but never removed. Discretion given for one round only and an awful lot of hastily added indicators for the next round!)

[cjslator]

freedman said:

At this stage we have no idea whether the organising clubs will or wont write acceptance of GPS devices into their regs

The clubs will write whatever their racers / championship promoters want into the regs - they won't simply exclude all GPS devices otherwise it's highly likely they'll have an empty series/championship

[Steve H]

freedman said:

Suggestion I've seen is this was brought about by the driver of a Mini who broke down at the BTCC Thruxton meeting and then proceeded to get his phone out live on TV

Maybe they just police things like that correctly rather than write new rules (assuming that was the trigger)

I had heard something similar but I bet every other driver has a mobile in his pocket and there has been no enforcement that I nave heard of. A change in regs for something that was already covered seems pretty odd if this was the trigger.

Regarding poor fastening of a mobile or other device, isn’t there already a basic reg that everything has to be securely fastened somewhere in the Blue Book?

[GlobalRacer]

Steve H said:

Regarding poor fastening of a mobile or other device, isn’t there already a basic reg that everything has to be securely fastened somewhere in the Blue Book?

Yes, J 5.20.14 covers the fitment of devices in the car which is why I think this reg is more about distractions than how a device is fitted.