TCR vs BMW M2 vs M4 GT4 (F82)

[S1M VP]

Looking at do a fun race series next year, something like the 750MC Club Enduro or Roadsports.

TCR cars usually seem to dominate, but we are thinking something RWD and take them on.

Class A is up to 300bhp/ton and both an M2 CS Racing and an M4 GT4 are eligible.

I’ve never raced or driven any of these cars, so thought I’d ask the PH community for some ideas and input.

appreciate performance largely depends on driver and setup etc, but assuming the same driver … would an M2 or an M4 GT4 be competitive with a TCR car?

Anyone know how reliable all three are? (Assuming looked after by a professional team).
Anything to watch?

I’d imagine M2 have less set up options, so are easier to run, than an M4 GT4 … But is this assumption right or wrong?

Could an M4 GT4 run ok in the 750MC?

[Dan BSCS]

M4 GT4s have run successfully in Club Enduro in the past. The issue is they are VERY heavy and hard on tyres, brakes, fuel, etc. It’s possible to be competitive in any car with good drivers but TCRs dominate because they are very reliable and easy to drive.

Personally I think running factory built TCR and GT4 cars in “club” motorsport is taking the piss but that is a different discussion.

[S1M VP]

Dan BSCS said:

M4 GT4s have run successfully in Club Enduro in the past. The issue is they are VERY heavy and hard on tyres, brakes, fuel, etc. It’s possible to be competitive in any car with good drivers but TCRs dominate because they are very reliable and easy to drive.

Personally I think running factory built TCR and GT4 cars in “club” motorsport is taking the piss but that is a different discussion.

That’s why the Enduro series has the different classes though and BOP to even the fields within each class.
Plenty of single make racing to be had, but if doing the Enduro, would want to be in a A class car with enough grunt to we didn’t keep getting blown away by other cars down every straight.

Watched some races last year as some mates were racing in it.
There was a small silver car (older Ginetta maybe?) that was rapid down the straights, as were some of the Lotus’s which seemed to be on a level playing field to the TCR’s.

Personally, I just wouldn’t feel comfortable in a small car like a Lotus in a heavy impact (not that I’m intending to have a heavy shunt), after getting caught out by coolant in turn 1 at Spa. Hit the brake at the normal braking point and was in the wall 2 seconds later at 100mph and ended up with a fractured spine etc. Not sure I’d have walked away with just minor injuries if I was in anything smaller.

[Dan BSCS]

There’s no BoP. Just power to weight limits for each class. Which is a bit of a simplistic way to do it but it works ok. At the minute at least. The Ginetta and (in particular) the Lotus you mention are nowhere near as powerful as the other stuff and are at a serious straight line speed disadvantage but they are both well driven meaning they can keep up or beat the powerful cars at most tracks.

The problem with allowing factory built TCR and GT4 cars is that one day a decent driver with a LOT of money could turn up with a McLaren 570s GT4 car and just smoke everybody.

Area Motorsport dominated in their TCR car because it was the car to have and they were both decent drivers. To be fair to Rob though he has built Mk7 Golfs from scratch that are now performing as well as the TCR cars and Rob and Bradley Burns won the Class A championship this year as they are both great drivers in a well developed car.

Loads of power might feel like the best bet, particularly if you want to do all your overtaking on the straights but it has been tried and those who have gone down that route have ended up running less power and less weight to get the best performance over a long race distance.

[afewbeers]

I've looked at racing in some series where the classes are based around power to weight but it's a big no no if you have a NA engine these days, you can't get anywhere near the forced induction cars once they're trimmed for the right power to weight ratio and tuned for a broad torque band.

[Steve H]

afewbeers said:

I've looked at racing in some series where the classes are based around power to weight but it's a big no no if you have a NA engine these days, you can't get anywhere near the forced induction cars once they're trimmed for the right power to weight ratio and tuned for a broad torque band.

And yet the Ginetta and particularly the Lotus were competitive with NA………

Biggest issue with the lightweight cars seems to be reliability, the Lotus must have got through more head gaskets than tyres last year.


I kind of agree with Dan about the TCR cars although I think there is still a restriction on them in that you can only use the earlier models. You can also pick up an early TCR now for the same kind of money it would cost to build a competitive class A or B car from a road model.


On the OPs question, M4s are an option but are heavy. I think they optimised the Autowerks car this year by dropping the weight and power, every car has a sweet spot as to where you go on this but it’s rarely at either extreme.

M2s look like a great package to me; for some reason we don’t see many of them in club racing so might take some development but could be a winner and it would be nice to see more rwd kit at the front of those races.

[lloydie-67]

Its a tricky one, something that has become a topic of conversation in the paddock from time to time.
N/A cars can still be competitive, but i think its fair comment to say its far easier to extract more usable power and torque from forced induction cars.
Ive been competing in Roadsports on and off (mostly on) since 2014, and have been seen N/A cars win overall (myself included!) but also seen the rise of the TCR/FI car and the success they have.
Ultmatley, a lot of it comes down as always to how much money and time you have to prep and test.
The quickest N/A cars are running sequential boxes, aero or are super light weight (lotus etc).... us mere mortals with a modest budget just arent at the pointy end anymore....

[whp1983]

Dan BSCS said:

M4 GT4s have run successfully in Club Enduro in the past. The issue is they are VERY heavy and hard on tyres, brakes, fuel, etc. It’s possible to be competitive in any car with good drivers but TCRs dominate because they are very reliable and easy to drive.

Personally I think running factory built TCR and GT4 cars in “club” motorsport is taking the piss but that is a different discussion.

I guess the class As in various championships are becoming the factory class as it were- see more TCR/GT stuff than you do built road cars now. I can understand it though, gen 1 TCRs are £40-£60k so not much different to building a class A car ground up.

Interesting comparison of cars though…. In club enduro tracks like Croft, Anglesey etc definitely suit TCR over an M4

[Steve H]

whp1983 said:

I guess the class As in various championships are becoming the factory class as it were- see more TCR/GT stuff than you do built road cars now. I can understand it though, gen 1 TCRs are £40-£60k so not much different to building a class A car ground up.

Interesting comparison of cars though…. In club enduro tracks like Croft, Anglesey etc definitely suit TCR over an M4

I’m curious why you pick those two tracks as particularly good for TCRs? For me they have some engineered in advantages that will always be hard to overcome with a converted road car (although Area have done a very good job in trying with their Golfs) but I wouldn’t particularly have picked certain tracks for the advantage.


I think I am right in saying that the BRSCC endurance championship doesn’t allow TCR cars in which may be a good thing but I guess if someone has the budget they will always find other ways of gaining an advantage.

On the turbo question, the overall 750 Enduro championship has been won twice by NA cars since it started in 2018 but it was in the first two years, it’s all been turbo since then. In fact for the first two years all three class winners were NA.