Any experience day instructors here?
Discussion
Hi all, this is my first ever post. I'll try and keep it short. I'm 38 and always wanted to do some kind of Motorsport. But due to literally not knowing what was wrong with me till last year, I didn't know why I just couldn't take that step. Anyway an ADHD and Autism assessment showed that I got a bit of a dodgy brain. Fast forward to this year... I'm now on meds and extremely levelled out and on the ball. I've already signed up and participating in three different karting championships this year (albeit hire kart)
I've done a few experience days and done one at thruxton yesterday in the little Sports 2000 car and loved it. I'll never be able to afford to race on a circuit as a long time thing. But after all the experience days I've had, I wondered how the instructors went about doing what they done. It might seem a bit naff to many, but I love the idea of doing it. I'm not even interested in doing it for money or the likes at all, I'd be happy not to be paid.
I emailed thruxton and they were helpful, but because I don't come from a Motorsport background Im not too sure about a few things.
They said I need a full race licence and competed at least seven times in a national series before I can get that. Then 600£ to book an instructors course and get signed off. I presume they mean an ARDs instructor?
Could I do my ARDs course this year, then try and find some relatively cheap seats in a national championship next year, then do the instructors course the following year?
If anyone is currently an experience day instructor, I'd love to hear if you have anything to say about it
Thanks for your time
Lee
I've done a few experience days and done one at thruxton yesterday in the little Sports 2000 car and loved it. I'll never be able to afford to race on a circuit as a long time thing. But after all the experience days I've had, I wondered how the instructors went about doing what they done. It might seem a bit naff to many, but I love the idea of doing it. I'm not even interested in doing it for money or the likes at all, I'd be happy not to be paid.
I emailed thruxton and they were helpful, but because I don't come from a Motorsport background Im not too sure about a few things.
They said I need a full race licence and competed at least seven times in a national series before I can get that. Then 600£ to book an instructors course and get signed off. I presume they mean an ARDs instructor?
Could I do my ARDs course this year, then try and find some relatively cheap seats in a national championship next year, then do the instructors course the following year?
If anyone is currently an experience day instructor, I'd love to hear if you have anything to say about it
Thanks for your time
Lee
Having been at Silverstone instructor training on Friday, I think we agreed, most of us are on the spectrum!
The issue you have though, is instructing / coaching is more than just sitting next to someone saying left or right. Think if it was parachute jumping. Would you want or expect someone to be in charge of your safety and life who had made just 5 or 6 solo jumps and had never been in difficult situations? You need skill and ability in all sorts if situations as well capability to advance someone as well as the ability to convey that.
There are some experience companies that do use people that have no recognised qualification but it is a big (or not) debate if this is the right thing.
The issue you have though, is instructing / coaching is more than just sitting next to someone saying left or right. Think if it was parachute jumping. Would you want or expect someone to be in charge of your safety and life who had made just 5 or 6 solo jumps and had never been in difficult situations? You need skill and ability in all sorts if situations as well capability to advance someone as well as the ability to convey that.
There are some experience companies that do use people that have no recognised qualification but it is a big (or not) debate if this is the right thing.
Edited by Nickjd on Sunday 26th February 17:04
Edited by Nickjd on Sunday 26th February 18:05
I did rally experience instructing for a while. It took a few goes to get over my travel sickness but when I felt fine I did enjoy it. Mostly.
But it’s like any other job, you’ll get bored of it . You will certainly get bored of it if you have no aim or ambition in the role.
It didn’t pay.
Customers are mostly great to instruct. There will be the occasional throbber.
You do need however some experience. Even 1 season isn’t t really enough. I had at the time 20 plus years of circuit racing experience so was outside of my comfort zone doing rally instruction.
It was (at least before COVID) a closed shop. Suspect it still is a at least at the circuits. Maybe the Everyman do 3 laps in a Lamborghini on an airfield is a bit more accessible. But the pay will be even worse.
There are some full time instructors, but as a friend once said to me. Being a full time instructor is only for those who don’t want to work for a living.
Edited to add- I’d hope that Thruxton would not allow you to get an instructors licence before you’ve done some racing.
But it’s like any other job, you’ll get bored of it . You will certainly get bored of it if you have no aim or ambition in the role.
It didn’t pay.
Customers are mostly great to instruct. There will be the occasional throbber.
You do need however some experience. Even 1 season isn’t t really enough. I had at the time 20 plus years of circuit racing experience so was outside of my comfort zone doing rally instruction.
It was (at least before COVID) a closed shop. Suspect it still is a at least at the circuits. Maybe the Everyman do 3 laps in a Lamborghini on an airfield is a bit more accessible. But the pay will be even worse.
There are some full time instructors, but as a friend once said to me. Being a full time instructor is only for those who don’t want to work for a living.
Edited to add- I’d hope that Thruxton would not allow you to get an instructors licence before you’ve done some racing.
Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Sunday 26th February 17:27
I would agree with a lot of what Dynion says about instruction as a career but I know a number of guys that do work on experience days pretty much as a hobby and they enjoy it. The money is varies from pretty poor to terrible but you get to play in some expensive cars and if you wanted to instruct at any higher level it gives you a lot of seat time and experience.
To get an Ards instructors licence you need to hold, have held or be eligible to hold an International Race licence. There used to be some flexibility on this for instructors that could demonstrate suitable equivalent experience but those doors have mostly been closed now.
The Blue Book says the a National licence holder can upgrade to a Race International ITD/C licence without any further qualification but to get a Race International ITC/C licence my reckoning is that it takes 16 race finishes (6 to go from Club to National, 10 more to go from National to International).
I have to say I’m not clear on what the practical difference is between the two Int licences. Ards just say International is required and not which version so I would imagine if a school wanted to give you an instructors licence they could do it once you hold a National race licence.
That said, while I recognise that charging for instructor courses is a valid income stream for the schools and they will give you valuable training, six races and a few experience drives is not enough to give anyone the experience needed to safely instruct in anything much other than the very controlled environment of an experience day and may well not be enough even for that.
To get an Ards instructors licence you need to hold, have held or be eligible to hold an International Race licence. There used to be some flexibility on this for instructors that could demonstrate suitable equivalent experience but those doors have mostly been closed now.
The Blue Book says the a National licence holder can upgrade to a Race International ITD/C licence without any further qualification but to get a Race International ITC/C licence my reckoning is that it takes 16 race finishes (6 to go from Club to National, 10 more to go from National to International).
I have to say I’m not clear on what the practical difference is between the two Int licences. Ards just say International is required and not which version so I would imagine if a school wanted to give you an instructors licence they could do it once you hold a National race licence.
That said, while I recognise that charging for instructor courses is a valid income stream for the schools and they will give you valuable training, six races and a few experience drives is not enough to give anyone the experience needed to safely instruct in anything much other than the very controlled environment of an experience day and may well not be enough even for that.
Absolutely ^^^. But in fairness to the OP, he is talking about options for experience days and not trackday or race coaching.
Ards suggest that a grade B instructor is the basic level for trackdays and an A is necessary to get in car with racers on test days. Upgrades on the instructor licence are judged by by the schools on both experience and ability.
Ards suggest that a grade B instructor is the basic level for trackdays and an A is necessary to get in car with racers on test days. Upgrades on the instructor licence are judged by by the schools on both experience and ability.
Everyman will sometimes offer opportunities for “instructors” for their experience days who are not ARDS racers or ARDS instructors. They do their own training and certification day, although it costs.
I don’t know if any other experience days do similar training.
The pay isnt great and they can be long days but as a paid hobby to do occasionally it can be enjoyable.
To be eligible you have to do one of their normal experience days and be recommended by the instructors that take you round. Not sure whether you can actually ask to be assessed in that manner, i certainly never have been and I think I have only recommended one person.
Basically you have to score 40 marks out of 40 for your driving to be considered.
TBH, if I was you, I wouldn’t ask to be assessed as a potential instructor when you get in the car; certainly if someone got in the car and said that to me, I would immediately be wary that the customer thought they were already very good and might be over confident, and that would raise alarm bells.
Maybe the answer is to do an Everyman experience day (book 3 or 4 cars and do the 6 mile options for each one to get max time on track) and see what scores you get. If you get 39-40 marks for a couple of the runs, maybe have a word with the senior instructor / event manager on the day. If you get 35-36 marks then just enjoy the day and do it as a customer 3-4 times a year, along with your karting or maybe things like AutoSolos, to satisfy your motorsport interest.
I don’t know if any other experience days do similar training.
The pay isnt great and they can be long days but as a paid hobby to do occasionally it can be enjoyable.
To be eligible you have to do one of their normal experience days and be recommended by the instructors that take you round. Not sure whether you can actually ask to be assessed in that manner, i certainly never have been and I think I have only recommended one person.
Basically you have to score 40 marks out of 40 for your driving to be considered.
TBH, if I was you, I wouldn’t ask to be assessed as a potential instructor when you get in the car; certainly if someone got in the car and said that to me, I would immediately be wary that the customer thought they were already very good and might be over confident, and that would raise alarm bells.
Maybe the answer is to do an Everyman experience day (book 3 or 4 cars and do the 6 mile options for each one to get max time on track) and see what scores you get. If you get 39-40 marks for a couple of the runs, maybe have a word with the senior instructor / event manager on the day. If you get 35-36 marks then just enjoy the day and do it as a customer 3-4 times a year, along with your karting or maybe things like AutoSolos, to satisfy your motorsport interest.
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 28th February 16:04
One hat does not fit all. There is a big difference between an ARDs instructor and an "experience day" instructor.
Your ARDs instructor is teaching you how to become a race driver. Your Experience day instructor is there to guide you whilst "experiencing" the vehicle/s you have chosen to drive. If you look at it like that, then the levels required for either don't need to be the same.
Your ARDs instructor is teaching you how to become a race driver. Your Experience day instructor is there to guide you whilst "experiencing" the vehicle/s you have chosen to drive. If you look at it like that, then the levels required for either don't need to be the same.
r.g. said:
One hat does not fit all. There is a big difference between an ARDs instructor and an "experience day" instructor.
Your ARDs instructor is teaching you how to become a race driver. Your Experience day instructor is there to guide you whilst "experiencing" the vehicle/s you have chosen to drive. If you look at it like that, then the levels required for either don't need to be the same.
I couldn't disagree more, there are many ARDS Instructors that I wouldn't have washing my car, let alone teach someone to race!!Your ARDs instructor is teaching you how to become a race driver. Your Experience day instructor is there to guide you whilst "experiencing" the vehicle/s you have chosen to drive. If you look at it like that, then the levels required for either don't need to be the same.
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