Discussion
So, had a good old natter with the wifey and we're pretty much on the same page with racing - and associated costs!
Next year, I'm going to start trackdays. Nothing too crazy to start with, ideally once a month go hit Snetterton, and see how things go. Ideally this will be instructed sessions so I'm getting the most out of it.
All being well, go do my race license at the end of the year and start racing in 2024.
I don't have a vehicle to race with, I drive a VW caravelle, and we have the family mondeo - neither I want to take around a track.
So, I'm going to get something purely for racing/trackdays.
Initially, I'll be keeping it MOTed and Taxed and all that expensive malarkey, and hoping I don't bin it, so I can drive it there and home. If things go well, I'll stick a toe bar on the caravelle and get a trailer. At which point I'll cancel the mot/road insurance/tax etc and that can all go into the "i've broken something again" pot.
We're currently converting the garage into a utility room, so working on it will be tricky off the drive but hey! gotta start somewhere eh.
I'm aiming to move my office into a unit next year and just sitting on waiting lists at the moment, But then I'll be able to move the toys into there and work on them in between working. I already rent an office, so moving this into a unit isn't a huge expense, and it'll be a while before we rebuild the garage.
So.... what to buy!
being as it's a toy, and i'm unsure what class I eventually want to race in, I'm keen to just get something that will teach me the ropes, give me a good grounding and be fairly economical to run, of course I understand all racing is expensive but I'm talking cheaper parts/more common parts - rather than an exotic car which whilst may be fun, will become a burden at the repair time.
So i'm setting a £5,000 budget.
Option 1:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374273877476?hash=item5...
A fairly nice Clio. Lots of work already done - would seem a decent choice. Not sure about the MOT status, and the reg doesn't show anything on GOV but an option.
Option 2:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394253122354?hash=item5...
this is my current favourite. I do quite like the ST150 as a starting point. The guy has clearly done loads to it, and it's got full MOT.
Option 3
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403926594507?hash=item5...
Think this is more all out track car. Would mean spending that extra £1k on a toe bar.. maybe hire a trailer or just up the budget. But potentially a great machine to learn in
Option 4
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185606621236?hash=item2...
big bad beemer. Within budget but i'm not too sure... might regret it not being an M3
Obviously there's a good few options around each of these cars. I'm drawn to either the Clio or the Fiesta. I had looked at Focus ST225s as I had one before and love the power but I think the engine is problematic.
welcome any other advice.
Next year, I'm going to start trackdays. Nothing too crazy to start with, ideally once a month go hit Snetterton, and see how things go. Ideally this will be instructed sessions so I'm getting the most out of it.
All being well, go do my race license at the end of the year and start racing in 2024.
I don't have a vehicle to race with, I drive a VW caravelle, and we have the family mondeo - neither I want to take around a track.
So, I'm going to get something purely for racing/trackdays.
Initially, I'll be keeping it MOTed and Taxed and all that expensive malarkey, and hoping I don't bin it, so I can drive it there and home. If things go well, I'll stick a toe bar on the caravelle and get a trailer. At which point I'll cancel the mot/road insurance/tax etc and that can all go into the "i've broken something again" pot.
We're currently converting the garage into a utility room, so working on it will be tricky off the drive but hey! gotta start somewhere eh.
I'm aiming to move my office into a unit next year and just sitting on waiting lists at the moment, But then I'll be able to move the toys into there and work on them in between working. I already rent an office, so moving this into a unit isn't a huge expense, and it'll be a while before we rebuild the garage.
So.... what to buy!
being as it's a toy, and i'm unsure what class I eventually want to race in, I'm keen to just get something that will teach me the ropes, give me a good grounding and be fairly economical to run, of course I understand all racing is expensive but I'm talking cheaper parts/more common parts - rather than an exotic car which whilst may be fun, will become a burden at the repair time.
So i'm setting a £5,000 budget.
Option 1:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374273877476?hash=item5...
A fairly nice Clio. Lots of work already done - would seem a decent choice. Not sure about the MOT status, and the reg doesn't show anything on GOV but an option.
Option 2:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394253122354?hash=item5...
this is my current favourite. I do quite like the ST150 as a starting point. The guy has clearly done loads to it, and it's got full MOT.
Option 3
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403926594507?hash=item5...
Think this is more all out track car. Would mean spending that extra £1k on a toe bar.. maybe hire a trailer or just up the budget. But potentially a great machine to learn in
Option 4
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185606621236?hash=item2...
big bad beemer. Within budget but i'm not too sure... might regret it not being an M3
Obviously there's a good few options around each of these cars. I'm drawn to either the Clio or the Fiesta. I had looked at Focus ST225s as I had one before and love the power but I think the engine is problematic.
welcome any other advice.
Definitely do it. You won't regret it.
Your shortlist of cars is spot on, and is the same shortlist most of us had when we started racing.
There's nothing wrong with a Clio, they remain one of the best 'bang for buck' track cars out there. But if you're looking to go racing, I'd recommend your other two choices of either MX5 or ST150. Reason being, there is no set race series for Clios anymore (that I am aware of?) but there are several great series to choose from in either MX5s or ST150s.
Clios are still popular in stuff like Trackday Trophy etc, and are an ideal first race car. But its better to have the option of starting your racing journey in a packed paddock full of the same cars, with likeminded drivers who can give you tips and help you along the way etc. MX5s in particular are excellent for that.
Lastly, if you can squeeze it into your budget; look to get a car that already has a race-spec cage in it. There are plenty of used race cars around at a great price. That black ST150 you've listed is probably a cracking car, and looks good value to me. But just be careful you don't buy a car that you're then going to have to spend thousands converting into race spec (eg. upgrading to a 'full' rollcage); when you could probably have just bought a race-spec car to begin with for similar money. It doesn't necessarily need to be race-ready, but if the bare bones are there already then it could save you a lot of time and money.
Good luck! And speaking from experience of having owned MX5 race cars, ST150 race cars, and Civic race cars, my personal fav has been the ST150s. But that's just my opinion
Your shortlist of cars is spot on, and is the same shortlist most of us had when we started racing.
There's nothing wrong with a Clio, they remain one of the best 'bang for buck' track cars out there. But if you're looking to go racing, I'd recommend your other two choices of either MX5 or ST150. Reason being, there is no set race series for Clios anymore (that I am aware of?) but there are several great series to choose from in either MX5s or ST150s.
Clios are still popular in stuff like Trackday Trophy etc, and are an ideal first race car. But its better to have the option of starting your racing journey in a packed paddock full of the same cars, with likeminded drivers who can give you tips and help you along the way etc. MX5s in particular are excellent for that.
Lastly, if you can squeeze it into your budget; look to get a car that already has a race-spec cage in it. There are plenty of used race cars around at a great price. That black ST150 you've listed is probably a cracking car, and looks good value to me. But just be careful you don't buy a car that you're then going to have to spend thousands converting into race spec (eg. upgrading to a 'full' rollcage); when you could probably have just bought a race-spec car to begin with for similar money. It doesn't necessarily need to be race-ready, but if the bare bones are there already then it could save you a lot of time and money.
Good luck! And speaking from experience of having owned MX5 race cars, ST150 race cars, and Civic race cars, my personal fav has been the ST150s. But that's just my opinion
out of that list, it's the Clio all day long. It's eligible and competitive in lots of multi class championships and yes there is a single make series for them. However that championship (Clio 182 Cup) has control parts which that ebay example doesn't have.
The BMW is a straight no, I wouldn't look at it if it was at the end of my drive, and the Mazda is hard to find a race championship for because soft top.
The ST is interesting. But it's a half cage ( which is actually ok to race with, but I wouldn't) however it doesn't look like an FIA or MSUK approved cage and isn't mentioned at all in the advert so suspect you'd have to bin it.
Clio is the answer.
The BMW is a straight no, I wouldn't look at it if it was at the end of my drive, and the Mazda is hard to find a race championship for because soft top.
The ST is interesting. But it's a half cage ( which is actually ok to race with, but I wouldn't) however it doesn't look like an FIA or MSUK approved cage and isn't mentioned at all in the advert so suspect you'd have to bin it.
Clio is the answer.
yeah I get the points made there.
I mean maybe it's best to just accept what I'm buying it for and go all out.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125545625212?hash=item1...
like this, sure it's not road legal, but that means no MOT/TAX/Insurance (although I'll get racing insurance) So potentially worth spending a bit more now, get a trailer and just have fun with a car made purely for the purpose
I mean maybe it's best to just accept what I'm buying it for and go all out.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125545625212?hash=item1...
like this, sure it's not road legal, but that means no MOT/TAX/Insurance (although I'll get racing insurance) So potentially worth spending a bit more now, get a trailer and just have fun with a car made purely for the purpose
Look at your nearest circuit and see if there is a championship you can do there, eg castle Combe have FF1600, GT, saloon and hot hatch championships.
Yes you only race at one track (although your car would almost certainly be eligible for many other series) but you’re not driving a race car up and down the country, or towing it, at some horrendous cost.
Maybe even hillclimbing or sprints, the midland championship is central, goes to a few venues and wouldn’t be too expensive.
As I’ve said before, some people get their kicks driving all around the country, taking up whole weekends just for less than an hour of Track time but I think that’s madness.
Look at potential race series now, the CSCC will have something that will probably suit any car you buy. Use this to inform your purchase. Also look at places like www.racecarsdirect.com and organising club websites, the MGOC Or MGCC have good classified sections and busy motorsport sections. Everyone defaults to eBay and you’ll pay a fair bit for a good car.
personally I’d find a car as standard as possible, you need to be 100% certain mods and things are safe and eligible for a series otherwise you’ll spend a fortune putting things back in. A clio 172/182 and a trip to KTec would be ideal or What about an MG ZR
The first black Clio looks ok but needs work, the mk2 MX5looks fun on track but bike engines are hard work on the road and it’s not eligible for many series, the bmw will be costly to run and maintain and I know nothing about fiestas.
If you’re serious about racing it in a year or two, just get a race car now that’s already been through a championship scrutineer, not a track car built in a garage on a budget that someone thinks is safe. The white Clio is ideal but you’ll on need a trailer, somewhere to store it etc etc. £6k is cheap for a good car eligible for many series
Yes you only race at one track (although your car would almost certainly be eligible for many other series) but you’re not driving a race car up and down the country, or towing it, at some horrendous cost.
Maybe even hillclimbing or sprints, the midland championship is central, goes to a few venues and wouldn’t be too expensive.
As I’ve said before, some people get their kicks driving all around the country, taking up whole weekends just for less than an hour of Track time but I think that’s madness.
Look at potential race series now, the CSCC will have something that will probably suit any car you buy. Use this to inform your purchase. Also look at places like www.racecarsdirect.com and organising club websites, the MGOC Or MGCC have good classified sections and busy motorsport sections. Everyone defaults to eBay and you’ll pay a fair bit for a good car.
personally I’d find a car as standard as possible, you need to be 100% certain mods and things are safe and eligible for a series otherwise you’ll spend a fortune putting things back in. A clio 172/182 and a trip to KTec would be ideal or What about an MG ZR
The first black Clio looks ok but needs work, the mk2 MX5looks fun on track but bike engines are hard work on the road and it’s not eligible for many series, the bmw will be costly to run and maintain and I know nothing about fiestas.
If you’re serious about racing it in a year or two, just get a race car now that’s already been through a championship scrutineer, not a track car built in a garage on a budget that someone thinks is safe. The white Clio is ideal but you’ll on need a trailer, somewhere to store it etc etc. £6k is cheap for a good car eligible for many series
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 7th October 20:04
pablo said:
The first black Clio looks ok but needs work, the mk2 MX5looks fun on track but bike engines are hard work on the road and it’s not eligible for many series, the bmw will be costly to run and maintain and I know nothing about fiestas.
The mx5 is on bike throttle bodies it's not bike engined. There is an mx5 cup in the 750 motorclub but again you'd be better off just buying a car that's already raced in it when one comes round for sale.Edited by pablo on Friday 7th October 20:04
http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/mx5-cup.htm
Some cars in budget here:
https://www.mgcc.co.uk/trophy/race-cars-for-sale/
One of the Class B cars might be bartered down to £5k and then Class C cars are definitely in budget.
MG ZRs handle well and eligible for numerous championships as well as the MG car clubs own.
https://www.mgcc.co.uk/trophy/race-cars-for-sale/
One of the Class B cars might be bartered down to £5k and then Class C cars are definitely in budget.
MG ZRs handle well and eligible for numerous championships as well as the MG car clubs own.
Edited by andy97 on Friday 7th October 20:36
Firstly, excellent that you are planning on starting to race.
My advice would be to go and watch a few races of the different series and go into the pits (they’re clubman so access is no issue) and strike up a conversation with anyone. If there is a team or company with a few cars (may be looking after various drivers cars) ask if they know if cars are coming up for sale or where the best place to look is as some drivers may be leaving the series or moving to a different class.
If that’s a bit too uncomfortable ( I can assure you that everyone you come across will be helpful even if it’s only pointing you to someone else who may be able to help) have a look on forums for the series and then see if there any particular garages / workshops that are known and again may know of cars coming up for sale.
The reason I say that is when I bought my car I had a bit of help and that was reassuring. I knew the car was correct for the series, the seat belts were in date, it had the correct fire extinguisher etc.
Whatever you do, the best of luck. It’s quite an amazing thing to do.
My advice would be to go and watch a few races of the different series and go into the pits (they’re clubman so access is no issue) and strike up a conversation with anyone. If there is a team or company with a few cars (may be looking after various drivers cars) ask if they know if cars are coming up for sale or where the best place to look is as some drivers may be leaving the series or moving to a different class.
If that’s a bit too uncomfortable ( I can assure you that everyone you come across will be helpful even if it’s only pointing you to someone else who may be able to help) have a look on forums for the series and then see if there any particular garages / workshops that are known and again may know of cars coming up for sale.
The reason I say that is when I bought my car I had a bit of help and that was reassuring. I knew the car was correct for the series, the seat belts were in date, it had the correct fire extinguisher etc.
Whatever you do, the best of luck. It’s quite an amazing thing to do.
thanks for all the feedback, all things i'll definitely bare in mind.
I do get the point regarding choosing a series first, but my only reluctance there is I've no idea what i'm looking for from a series as yet, or where my skills (or lack of) are. My thoughts coming into this was to get something to do track days in and something I can take an instructor out in, learn how to be fast and then progress from there.
I really don't want to jump into a championship and over commit too soon. I like the idea of the single track championship, that might be something I can look at toward the back end of the year, again, once i've got some groundwork done. I really don't want to buy something and then hate it once i've learned what i'm enjoying and what i'm not.
So yes, at this stage it's just to give me something that I can take to the track - i'm not too sure if it needs to be something that stays with me, i.e. something I upgrade into a champ car.
That being said, I agree with the "don't buy something someone thinks is safe - buy something that has been scrutineered etc" at least then even if I come to sell it, i'm selling a race car rather than a modified car.
I'm not against getting something that needs a trailer etc, it just pushes me back a bit. I'm tied to my current office lease till January, after that i'll be putting all effort into moving into a unit, at which point I can just store it there. So that's not an enormous issue for me.
I don't want to do anything at all this year - but certainly might get myself down to a race or two and have a chat with people about.
I do want to get myself into a position that I do go round the country racing, but that is at the very least a year off. The only thing I want to do next year is learn and hopefully get my race license. If I get that I might enter a trackday champ race at the local track and then maybe take in a motorsport event where I can try some cars out and go from there.
I do get the point regarding choosing a series first, but my only reluctance there is I've no idea what i'm looking for from a series as yet, or where my skills (or lack of) are. My thoughts coming into this was to get something to do track days in and something I can take an instructor out in, learn how to be fast and then progress from there.
I really don't want to jump into a championship and over commit too soon. I like the idea of the single track championship, that might be something I can look at toward the back end of the year, again, once i've got some groundwork done. I really don't want to buy something and then hate it once i've learned what i'm enjoying and what i'm not.
So yes, at this stage it's just to give me something that I can take to the track - i'm not too sure if it needs to be something that stays with me, i.e. something I upgrade into a champ car.
That being said, I agree with the "don't buy something someone thinks is safe - buy something that has been scrutineered etc" at least then even if I come to sell it, i'm selling a race car rather than a modified car.
I'm not against getting something that needs a trailer etc, it just pushes me back a bit. I'm tied to my current office lease till January, after that i'll be putting all effort into moving into a unit, at which point I can just store it there. So that's not an enormous issue for me.
I don't want to do anything at all this year - but certainly might get myself down to a race or two and have a chat with people about.
I do want to get myself into a position that I do go round the country racing, but that is at the very least a year off. The only thing I want to do next year is learn and hopefully get my race license. If I get that I might enter a trackday champ race at the local track and then maybe take in a motorsport event where I can try some cars out and go from there.
Sounds very reasonable and maybe therefore getting a road legal car that’s been prepared for track in some shape or form for gaining experience is a good first step.
Like others have said find something that is user friendly and that will be easy to sell once you’ve got what you need from it or if it is what you deceive you want to race then either get it compliant or sell it and buy one that is.
Whatever you buy expect to have to spend a bit getting it right though even if it is “ready to track”.
Like others have said find something that is user friendly and that will be easy to sell once you’ve got what you need from it or if it is what you deceive you want to race then either get it compliant or sell it and buy one that is.
Whatever you buy expect to have to spend a bit getting it right though even if it is “ready to track”.
Crook said:
Sounds very reasonable and maybe therefore getting a road legal car that’s been prepared for track in some shape or form for gaining experience is a good first step.
Like others have said find something that is user friendly and that will be easy to sell once you’ve got what you need from it or if it is what you deceive you want to race then either get it compliant or sell it and buy one that is.
Whatever you buy expect to have to spend a bit getting it right though even if it is “ready to track”.
oh for sure, I'm kind of seeing it as you would your first car at 17 - even if it's a 1.2 it feels like a rocket and it's basically going to be run ragged. I want to learn more about fixing issues myself, learn how to keep a racing car, and ideally I want to do that with something easy, with freely available parts. That's why the fiesta (or similar) appeals, really easy to get the parts needed to get it back on the track. Like others have said find something that is user friendly and that will be easy to sell once you’ve got what you need from it or if it is what you deceive you want to race then either get it compliant or sell it and buy one that is.
Whatever you buy expect to have to spend a bit getting it right though even if it is “ready to track”.
Guess the main decision to start with is whether you want FWD or RWD, after that it's a matter of finding a car that fits the regulations of the series you want to race in with minimal (if any changes). Things like wheel and tyre sizes, dashboards, suspension bushes, multiple throttle bodies etc can all vary between different series.
Also keep an eye on engine size and the classes within the series. With 1.7 to 1.8 engine cars it's very easy to end up in a class that you have no chance of being competitive in with a lot of series. Best to stick to 1.6 and 2.0 as they fit into just about every series somewhere.
Also keep an eye on engine size and the classes within the series. With 1.7 to 1.8 engine cars it's very easy to end up in a class that you have no chance of being competitive in with a lot of series. Best to stick to 1.6 and 2.0 as they fit into just about every series somewhere.
Dan BSCS said:
It really depends what you prefer. Would be an MX5 for me as I don’t get in with wrong wheel drive race cars. Rear wheel drive will teach you aspects of car control that FWD never will.
Likewise FWD will teach you aspects of car control RWD never will. I think a decent car balance/setup is far more important than which wheels are driven. MX5 is great car all round, the lack of power really helps with learning balance change without being overwhelming. My advice to the OP is to get something eligable for a championship, single make or whatever you want. Then you have a baseline for performance. Quali and race times are all readily available for most clubs and it gives you a decent yardstick for your own lap times during testing. Also by buying a ready built racecar you may also have access to setup information from the owner. What tyre pressures/springs/arbs the owner runs wet or dry is really useful information when starting out and will save you money in the long run.
I applaud your thinking on your way into the sport, without rushing or putting too much pressure on. I think that any car will suit your needs at the moment, the most important thing is seat time. If you decide you want to go a different route to what you buy, you can always re-sell.
DanTVR said:
I applaud your thinking on your way into the sport, without rushing or putting too much pressure on. I think that any car will suit your needs at the moment, the most important thing is seat time. If you decide you want to go a different route to what you buy, you can always re-sell.
thanks, i'm really keen for next year to be nothing else other than getting track time and getting my race license. I don't want pressure to keep the car, or pressure to enter anything specific from there on. So i'm really eager to keep options open. I think in reality, this is going to lead me into a largely road going car. I can see the point raised above about being sure about the mods any car has, so potentially what I get might just be stock. Might hurt the resale by being raced, but at least i'm not too far down the rabbit hole and feeling tied to the vehicle I have. Plus if I remain largely stock, if I have a massive moment and kill it, i've not lost loads of parts
But I can totally see the argument around a championship going car. But for me, that's too soon. Ideally this time next year, i'll have alot more under my belt and can go to the motorsport show and try a few more things out.
that being said....I do like the fiesta. Think it has all of what i'm after and is alot closer to what I thought about getting to start me off.
Edited by Hudson1984 on Sunday 9th October 20:25
Yazza54 said:
pablo said:
The first black Clio looks ok but needs work, the mk2 MX5looks fun on track but bike engines are hard work on the road and it’s not eligible for many series, the bmw will be costly to run and maintain and I know nothing about fiestas.
The mx5 is on bike throttle bodies it's not bike engined. There is an mx5 cup in the 750 motorclub but again you'd be better off just buying a car that's already raced in it when one comes round for sale.Edited by pablo on Friday 7th October 20:04
http://www.750mc.co.uk/formulae/mx5-cup.htm
jm8403 said:
There is also the mr2 series which is well documented by danny dc2. Similar price. You can hire for a race weekend by rogue motorsport I think, there is probably mx5 race car hire too. But now is the best time to buy as people start putting their cars for sale. Keep us updated and there is some great advice on here.
totally agree, been fantastic feedback, all really constructive so thanks everyoneGassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff