Racing Noob Queries

[Hudson1984]

Hey all,

so firstly, sorry, i'm sure these type of queries get asked a whole lot....

anyway, at the youthful age of 38 I've just started my racing journey, in Karting. Mostly because it's really accessible and I live 5 minutes from a track.

Now, Karting isn't something i'm wanting to stay in. I've always wanted to get involved in car racing but just never been in a position to do it, work/life/money or all three just didn't align.

Anyway! I've just entered the local tracks hire kart championships and enjoying the racing but i'm keen to work towards cars and just keen to chat about possible routes to take, and when to do it.

Now, to clarify - i'm not winning races. So i'm not coming at this as a "I'm an amazing racer and I want to move up the ranks" It's more a case of car racing has always appealed.

At the moment, i'm sticking with the hire championships until I find my feet a bit more and start moving through the pack, get used to racing and get used to finding correct lines and all the groundwork. But i'm in two (or more) minds as to where to go next?

I could get my own Kart, do more test sessions and enter an owner driver championship
I could move into Club100 hire cart national series
I could enter owner driver national series (something like rotax 177)

Or

Move into Circuit racing with MSVT

Reading the website, it seems a great group to race in with a fairly clear route of progression.

I think the main querys are:
What series?
What car?

I'm not a mechanic (engineering background but on oil tankers rather than cars! and even that was a bloody long while a go) but i'm seeing that as part of the journey too.

The main thing that i'm working with is timing. Should I get myself a track car, and just do some track days (don't think my caravelle is going to be worth using) perhaps some instructor sessions. Or should I stick with the Karting? get better there first, then move into cars in a couple of years.

I can see on the MSVT site, the route they suggest but it's really generic and short. Be keen to chat with people who've been and done it and can offer some sage advice.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

firstly congrats on getting started on your motor racing journey.

Hire karts are ok as a competitive outlet and to see whether you have any ability at all, but realistically they have very little to do with club racing. You are not on the same circuits, you don't have suspension movement, they are not massively fast, but yes you can start thinking about lines, consistency and things like this.

I would suggest that you take your transition to club racing in steps. It would certainly help you a lot, to get a cheap track car and do some track days, not least of which is that you might not like it, you're not very good or scare your self.

If you do some trackdays, it would certainly help to hire the instructor for a session or two on the day, to teach you the lines and some basics. I might look at track days as a 12 month activity, go to some different circuits, but also go to the same circuit a few times to begin with to check on your progression.

Then you would need to buy a race car, or try and find someone who wants a second driver and you can go halves. This might help with the spannering and the general overwhelmingness of your first race meeting.

There are some arrive n drive race outfits to look at, e.g. enduroKa or C1's but hiring is expensive, but might be right for your first couple of goes.

however it'll never be cheap, and you have to want it enough to sacrifice other things to fund the racing.

[Hudson1984]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

firstly congrats on getting started on your motor racing journey.

Hire karts are ok as a competitive outlet and to see whether you have any ability at all, but realistically they have very little to do with club racing. You are not on the same circuits, you don't have suspension movement, they are not massively fast, but yes you can start thinking about lines, consistency and things like this.

I would suggest that you take your transition to club racing in steps. It would certainly help you a lot, to get a cheap track car and do some track days, not least of which is that you might not like it, you're not very good or scare your self.

If you do some trackdays, it would certainly help to hire the instructor for a session or two on the day, to teach you the lines and some basics. I might look at track days as a 12 month activity, go to some different circuits, but also go to the same circuit a few times to begin with to check on your progression.

Then you would need to buy a race car, or try and find someone who wants a second driver and you can go halves. This might help with the spannering and the general overwhelmingness of your first race meeting.

There are some arrive n drive race outfits to look at, e.g. enduroKa or C1's but hiring is expensive, but might be right for your first couple of goes.

however it'll never be cheap, and you have to want it enough to sacrifice other things to fund the racing.

thanks for the feedback and advice, I think you're right, have to go car shopping.

I've looked at hire cars but man that's an expensive way to go - and od course it's never cheap to race but hire cars are a step too far for me I think.

Least if I don't like it I can sell the track car.

I've been thinking about a fiesta ST150 as I think it will grow with me, upgrade as I progress etc.

[andy97]

Do a few track days but hire your own instructor (or share one with someone else for the day) rather than just trying to book the instructors available at the track in 15 min sessions.
You will learn far more, far quicker that way, as you will get proper coaching rather than just being told the correct lines.
Not sure where you are based but I recommend you speak to Pete Edwards at “the Motorsports School”, he will sort you out with some proper coaching from one of his team.

[Hudson1984]

yeah that was my thinking entirely. Really don't want to just head out and think i'm fast - as I definitely won't be.

Certainly track days aren't something I'm really that interested in, more a means to an end so I'd be keen to make sure I make the most of the time there and that will 100% involve tuition. Quicker I can get into more of a club race the better.

[F12 Josh]

Worth looking at this thread (If you haven't already!) as it would be a very similar path to what you're looking at, with a Fiesta too:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Hudson1984]

F12 Josh said:

Worth looking at this thread (If you haven't already!) as it would be a very similar path to what you're looking at, with a Fiesta too:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

bookmark added! hadn't seen that so thanks.

[snowen250]

give these guys a shout:

https://www.supatunemotorsport.com/

they hire Fiesta ST150s and the founder is a very experienced instructor at Brands.

They will give you some sound advice i'm sure

[drmotorsport]

snowen250 said:

give these guys a shout:

https://www.supatunemotorsport.com/

they hire Fiesta ST150s and the founder is a very experienced instructor at Brands.

They will give you some sound advice i'm sure

+1
Colin Tester is a great go to if you want to dip your toe in club circuit racing with a straightforward Fiesta, some support and tuition. MSVR, CMMCS, CSCC, BRSCC and plenty of other clubs to choose from to suit your car choice, but best thing to do usually (if you're not a pro driver) is to get some seat time and get rid of your novice racing license before getting into other car types, single model racing, or start chasing power. Kart racing will still help, but plenty of us clubbies skipped that step in the pursuit of fun!

[Hudson1984]

drmotorsport said:

+1
Colin Tester is a great go to if you want to dip your toe in club circuit racing with a straightforward Fiesta, some support and tuition. MSVR, CMMCS, CSCC, BRSCC and plenty of other clubs to choose from to suit your car choice, but best thing to do usually (if you're not a pro driver) is to get some seat time and get rid of your novice racing license before getting into other car types, single model racing, or start chasing power. Kart racing will still help, but plenty of us clubbies skipped that step in the pursuit of fun!

Yeah I think i'm just gunna go for it and get myself a car, do some novice stuff with it, get some lessons and then see where I can go.

[NoBrakesWC]

I do BUKC Championship in Club 100 karts great fun but cars are so much more fun to drive. I do track days with my dad in his Boxster which he also races at club level which he loves and something I'm going to try do soon.

[Hudson1984]

NoBrakesWC said:

I do BUKC Championship in Club 100 karts great fun but cars are so much more fun to drive. I do track days with my dad in his Boxster which he also races at club level which he loves and something I'm going to try do soon.

yeah club 100 was the aim when I started off, but I'm just stuck thinking I'd enjoy cars more.

Think I'll continue to do the hire kart stuff and work on the trackday options for long term fun and games

[AWRacing]

You could head to motorsportdays.live at silverstone in November and have a look around all the different championships on offer.

If you had a race licence you can take cars out on track too to try them

[andrewcliffe]

or you could buy an older Formula Ford or similar and race that in a single seater series?

[Dan BSCS]

Hudson1984 said:

Yeah I think i'm just gunna go for it and get myself a car, do some novice stuff with it, get some lessons and then see where I can go.

If you want to actually learn how to race properly then a one make series is the best bet.

And you may think hiring is very expensive but once you get going with your own car and discover all the costs you didn’t think about you’ll realise there’s not actually that much difference. Obviously this depends on the company offering the arrive and drive packages. Some really do take the piss.

[Hudson1984]

Dan BSCS said:

If you want to actually learn how to race properly then a one make series is the best bet.

And you may think hiring is very expensive but once you get going with your own car and discover all the costs you didn’t think about you’ll realise there’s not actually that much difference. Obviously this depends on the company offering the arrive and drive packages. Some really do take the piss.

yeah for sure, I mean:
https://www.750mc.co.uk/classifieds,116-trophy-ful...

that's not too bad in my eyes all done and dusted and leaving nothing to worry about, no trailers, no mechanics, just drive. Quite like the idea of that too.

But need to get to that point, and I think getting some seat time under my belt with a ST150 or something like that, even if it's just a year I can always sell the car after a year of fun and move into A&D if I think that's the right step.... loads of options which is nice.

[andy97]

No idea what your budget for a car and racing is but you mention being able to afford £8k per year to pay a team, presumably plus entrance fees and consumables.
I would have a serious think about Caterham type racing. They really are brilliant cars to drive and, at the lower power levels, relatively cheap to run because they are so light on tyres and brakes etc. and parts are easy to get hold of. Plus they have the significant advantage that depreciation is very low so you can get most of your money back when you sell.
The “factory backed” race series can probably be expensive but there are other race series such as the Caterham Graduates, the Toyo 7 Series and CSCC Magnificent 7s which are really good value for money and have good driving standards and paddock atmosphere.
I race in CSCC Magnificent 7s - it’s a multi-class series, with 40 minute races (30 min qualifying) with a pit stop allowing you to share a car (and costs) with another driver. I race on a very tight budget and have previously tried my hand in single seaters with Monoposto, FWD tin tops and RWD coupes (both with CSCC) and now Mag 7s and I really wish that I had raced a Caterham many years ago. They are brilliant cars to drive, and CSCC is novice friendly. There are also teams available who will run your car for you, varying from big outfits running loads of cars to smaller teams maybe running one other driver in addition to the “team owner”.
PM if you want more info.
As it is getting towards the end of the season there will almost certainly be a few cars coming up for sale as people upgrade or move on.

Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 4th October 10:35

[AdeRacing]

I started racing hire karts at 42 (4 stroke and 2 stroke). I then moved into cars at 49. I learnt a lot in the karts and a lot of the guys I raced with at the time (Michael Crees, Simon Rudd, Ben Green to name just three) are well known racers these days. I certainly wouldn't be without that experience and the friends I made. Racing karts on slicks in the wet teaches you a lot.

The biggest difference for me between karts and cars is how hard it is to get seat time in the car without spending an absolute fortune. I used to have more seat time in a month of karting than a year of car racing.

The thing I really enjoy about car racing is the building and development of the car. The actual racing is obviously fun as well but the building/development added another angle which I never realised I would enjoy so much.

[Hudson1984]

AdeRacing said:

I started racing hire karts at 42 (4 stroke and 2 stroke). I then moved into cars at 49. I learnt a lot in the karts and a lot of the guys I raced with at the time (Michael Crees, Simon Rudd, Ben Green to name just three) are well known racers these days. I certainly wouldn't be without that experience and the friends I made. Racing karts on slicks in the wet teaches you a lot.

The biggest difference for me between karts and cars is how hard it is to get seat time in the car without spending an absolute fortune. I used to have more seat time in a month of karting than a year of car racing.

The thing I really enjoy about car racing is the building and development of the car. The actual racing is obviously fun as well but the building/development added another angle which I never realised I would enjoy so much.

that is one of my concerns. I think I can commit to racing once a month. Whereas if I get my own Kart, I can easily get down for an hour or two every week. Which is a big difference.

My main issue here is we're converting our garage into a utility room - so that limits my storage options. That being said there's a good few trackday cars with MOTs and I do have space for a toy that I use for trackday purposes, so it's not out the question.

Once I've built the new garage I've got alot more options. So i'll likely stick to karting anyway as it's just so accessible, and see what I can do with the racing on the side till I've the scope to work something else out - be that Arrive and Drive or run my own.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

Hudson1984 said:

My main issue here is we're converting our garage into a utility room - so that limits my storage options. .

oh dear.

jobs fked then.

if you want to be an amateur racer and all that entails, you need space. And ideally a largish garage so that you can work on your car in the dry and maybe warmth.

you also need room to store a trailer and the ability to load it up and keep it potentially overnight, ready to go, without blocking someone's driveway.

these are just the facts of club racing life. We buy houses with space, garages and parking, or streets with low density parking because the houses have drive ways.