Sprints and cages

[Clarkgti]

Went to have a gander at a sprint event at Combe yesterday held by Bristol motor club. I was wanting to enter but thought my car would not be permitted to run as its a track day car it's had mods that fall outside "Road cars" like interior trim and some std equipment removed but does not have a full roll cage that's required for "modifed cars". But looking around the paddock I notice a handful of hatch back cars running 2 front bucket seats, rear seats removed and a roll bar/half cage and the interior trim of the resr of the car removed e.g boot trim/lining etc. Is there something I don't know or can anything run as long as its deemed safe it just will not fall into a conventional championship and could be in some sort of oddball class?

I'm a newbie so please educate me.

[LukeBrown66]

I think there are classes that run totally road spec cars where the only requirement is your own safety gear, helmet, boots, sprint strip and battery indicator.

I think you can run any tyres you want as long as they are road legal, you can take out spare wheels etc, but other than that boggo.

Anything with a cage wold just be upgraded to a modified class, even though the car might be standard.

[MagicalTrevor]

Hi, thanks for coming to our sprint.

You need to try and read the supplementary regs for Sprinting. In particular section 13 page 357.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

They are supplementary to the other common revaluations, but it’s a good place to start.

You don’t need a full cage per se, an appropriate half cage will do, section K details what’s acceptable

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

Have a look at the appendix on page 192.

If you’d like to share your mods then I can advise if the Modified Production class is appropriate. Sometimes people can get caught out with some mods that put them outside of ‘ModProd’.

Alternatively, we have a class that’s designed for track day cars (albeit under 2l).

https://www.bristolmc.org.uk/2021-bristol-two-litr...

[Clarkgti]

MagicalTrevor said:

Hi, thanks for coming to our sprint.

You need to try and read the supplementary regs for Sprinting. In particular section 13 page 357.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

They are supplementary to the other common revaluations, but it’s a good place to start.

You don’t need a full cage per se, an appropriate half cage will do, section K details what’s acceptable

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

Have a look at the appendix on page 192.

If you’d like to share your mods then I can advise if the Modified Production class is appropriate. Sometimes people can get caught out with some mods that put them outside of ‘ModProd’.

Alternatively, we have a class that’s designed for track day cars (albeit under 2l).

https://www.bristolmc.org.uk/2021-bristol-two-litr...

Thanks for all the links I'm going to read through them this morning!

Car is a 2008 golf gti, mods include:
Engine - Intake, exhaust, stage 1 engine mapping
Brakes - upgraded brakes from a modern golf r, j hook discs, race pads etc.
Suspension - coilovers, arb's, polybushes
Odds and sodds - radio, rear boot interior trim, fog lights, rear wiper and side skirts removed ( side skirts fell off, don't fancy paying 100 quid plus for a bit of flimsy plastic that's not even needed for the MOT, not sure if this fail the "silhouette" rules)

Car has a sunroof, it was an optional extra so not sure if I'm allowed to remove (which I would like to do if possible) this as when standard equipment must remain fitted and operable I wasn't clear if this meant what the manufacturer provided as standard and therefore optional extras could be remove or if it means whatever was fitted by the manufacturer must stay.

I know it would be better to find a smaller engine car really for competitiveness due to the class it will fall in but car is definitely here to stay so as long as I can enjoy the day in it and find a suitable class for it then I'm happy.

[MagicalTrevor]

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

[Drumroll]

Clarkgti said:

Went to have a gander at a sprint event at Combe yesterday held by Bristol motor club. I was wanting to enter but thought my car would not be permitted to run as its a track day car it's had mods that fall outside "Road cars" like interior trim and some std equipment removed but does not have a full roll cage that's required for "modifed cars". But looking around the paddock I notice a handful of hatch back cars running 2 front bucket seats, rear seats removed and a roll bar/half cage and the interior trim of the resr of the car removed e.g boot trim/lining etc. Is there something I don't know or can anything run as long as its deemed safe it just will not fall into a conventional championship and could be in some sort of oddball class?

I'm a newbie so please educate me.

As has been said, there are two things you need to look the "Blue Book" (MSUK rules for all motorsport it covers in the UK) and also the supplementary regulations for the event(s) championship you want to run in.

Nothing beats going to events and speaking to competitors and organisers. Most sprints are quite a relaxed atmosphere and once the event is up and running people like scrutineers have time to talk.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Clarkgti]

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

[MagicalTrevor]

Yes, I can’t see any reason why not, so long as the cage is in spec then you’re likely to be ok.

[Trev450]

Clarkgti said:

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

From what you've said, if you were to reinstall the interior trim and rear seats, your car should then be eligible for the roadgoing classes.
I compete in that category and was there yesterday (white Focus RS).

[Clarkgti]

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

From what you've said, if you were to reinstall the interior trim and rear seats, your car should then be eligible for the roadgoing classes.
I compete in that category and was there yesterday (white Focus RS).

Thanks. So think would then be OK installing all that despite still missing rear wiper and motor and side skirts?

[Trev450]

Clarkgti said:

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

From what you've said, if you were to reinstall the interior trim and rear seats, your car should then be eligible for the roadgoing classes.
I compete in that category and was there yesterday (white Focus RS).

Thanks. So think would then be OK installing all that despite still missing rear wiper and motor and side skirts?

It's not something that a scrutineer is likely to bother about and it would take a very pedantic competitor to complain about something so trivial.

[Clarkgti]

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

From what you've said, if you were to reinstall the interior trim and rear seats, your car should then be eligible for the roadgoing classes.
I compete in that category and was there yesterday (white Focus RS).

Thanks. So think would then be OK installing all that despite still missing rear wiper and motor and side skirts?

It's not something that a scrutineer is likely to bother about and it would take a very pedantic competitor to complain about something so trivial.

Yeah thats what I'm unsure of is how to the letter they are for sprints. If it did not pass though for road going classes let's say and does not have a cage for modifed class, would it still be eligible to run or would I effectively just be sent home!

[Trev450]

Clarkgti said:

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

Trev450 said:

Clarkgti said:

MagicalTrevor said:

Sounds like a ModProd car to me. 2.0T makes it ineligible for the Two Litre championship, sadly.

I’d highly recommend trying to compete with a roadgoing or standard car. The ease of turning up in a road car, slapping some numbers on and then getting breakfast is a pleasure.

You could also try our MX5 Challenge, which is competitive and very friendly. I’ve done a stint in that and many of my mates do it. That’s a cheap entry into close competition

Agreed it would have been better for road going classes... but would it be eligible to run at all in its current state out of curiosity?

From what you've said, if you were to reinstall the interior trim and rear seats, your car should then be eligible for the roadgoing classes.
I compete in that category and was there yesterday (white Focus RS).

Thanks. So think would then be OK installing all that despite still missing rear wiper and motor and side skirts?

It's not something that a scrutineer is likely to bother about and it would take a very pedantic competitor to complain about something so trivial.

Yeah thats what I'm unsure of is how to the letter they are for sprints. If it did not pass though for road going classes let's say and does not have a cage for modifed class, would it still be eligible to run or would I effectively just be sent home!

Ultimately, the scrutineer on the day would have the final say, but with small things such as this most will let you run so long as they are rectified by the next event.

[MagicalTrevor]

I would agree. Not saying you’d 100% get away with it, but it unlikely for somebody to complain… until you started winning

[df76]

I run a Civic in roadgoing and was at Combe on Saturday, a good day out. Just repeating what's said above really, it's a pretty casual form of motorsport and unless you're really taking the pee it's unlikely to be a big issue. Make sure the basic interior is there for example. A scrutineer made a comment about the lack of carpets this weekend, but it wasn't much of a conversation. You will be running in the highest capacity road class with that car, so you won't be in any danger of winning anything and that means you would never be protested.

Was interesting on Saturday that there were several cars running in the wrong class, but the organisers didn't seem to mind and as those competitors weren't class leading it wasn't raised by anyone on the day.

[Zumbruk]

Trev450 said:

It's not something that a scrutineer is likely to bother about ....

Except at Prescott, where I've been made to replace my front number plate ("because it's road going"), warned about not having a crankcase breather oil catch tank (despite the standard car (TVR) not having one - he worked his way down the whole line of RV8 cars issuing the same warning) and I've seen them make people wear "lap & shoulder" belts as well as full harnesses, spend a lot of time measuring the thickness of roll cage tubing, even though a cage wasn't required for the class the car was in and debate making someone remove an air intake scoop under the silhouette rules, even though it was standard. FFS, this isn't F1 - it's club motorsport.

Edited by Zumbruk on Wednesday 27th July 14:04

[carl_w]

Zumbruk said:

Except at Prescott, where I've been made to replace my front number plate ("because it's road going"), warned about not having a crankcase breather oil catch tank (despite the standard car (TVR) not having one - he worked his way down the whole line of RV8 cars issuing the same warning) and I've seen them make people wear "lap & shoulder" belts as well as full harnesses, and spend a lot of time measuring the thickness of roll cage tubing, even though a cage wasn't required for the class the car was in.

Edited by Zumbruk on Wednesday 27th July 14:02

I've seen the number plate one happen to an Impreza with a small-sized plate on the basis that "the car must remain road-legal at all times during the event". I also had an interesting discussion with a scrutineer about having to add stuff to a standard car, and he pointed out that the timing strut, front and rear towing eyes weren't "as it was from the factory" but I'd still fitted them.

[Zumbruk]

carl_w said:

I've seen the number plate one happen to an Impreza with a small-sized plate on the basis that "the car must remain road-legal at all times during the event". I also had an interesting discussion with a scrutineer about having to add stuff to a standard car, and he pointed out that the timing strut, front and rear towing eyes weren't "as it was from the factory" but I'd still fitted them.

There's no logic to it, but I guess all you can do is roll your eyes and comply. The number plate thing was particularly ironic, since I used to mount my timing strut using the number plate mountings, so it was an "either/or" situation; I ended up gaffer taping the plate to the bonnet - still not strictly MoT compliant but it shut Captain Clipboard up.

[carl_w]

Zumbruk said:

There's no logic to it, but I guess all you can do is roll your eyes and comply. The number plate thing was particularly ironic, since I used to mount my timing strut using the number plate mountings, so it was an "either/or" situation; I ended up gaffer taping the plate to the bonnet - still not strictly MoT compliant but it shut Captain Clipboard up.

I have recently discovered (well I was told about them) trade plate clips. They are sprung loaded so you just bolt them to the strut (at the appropriate height) and then clip them over the number plate. Prior to that I mostly did the same as you: had the strut attached to the number plate mountings and the plate attached with velcro so I could take it off at the event and put it back on after. Now I don't even need to do that.

[Zumbruk]

To the OP; you need to carefully read the Blue Book regs to make sure you don't end up in a class where you're going to be hopelessly uncompetitive, just because you took the back seats out!

Here ya go. Hope you have a high boredom threshold!

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

As someone above advised, wander round the paddock and talk to people (once the the arrive/unpack/numbers/signon/scrutineering frenzy has subsided a bit). Most people are more than happy to talk about their cars.