Another First Race Series Dilemma
Discussion
Hi all, I've been postponing racing for a couple of years due to kids and house etc but want to bite the bullet this year. I am currently (delayed due to the above reasons too) building a 190 Cosworth which I want to race in the CSCC future classics, but this is not ready and I'm not going to rush it. I also have a classic mini nearing completion which I was building to rally and although it will be ready to use this year I think I'll sell it as my interest in rallying (as a competitor) has faded over the last few years.
I think the best option is to buy a cheap ready to race car and use it to learn with before I finish the Mercedes, I was thinking of an MX5 as I like the rear wheel drive and of course it's a cheap way to start racing. Since looking at other threads on here I've noticed a lot of love for Caterhams and Ma7da, now I'm not so sure! As I definitely plan to race the Merc I feel a full body car may be beneficial over a 7, but I know they are a hoot!
I'm going to book my ARDS next week for as soon as possible, I was given the MSA starter pack as a present a year or two ago so hopefully I can fit a few races in this year...
Any thoughts appreciated, also if MX5 is a good choice, what are the main differences between the 750MC and BRSCC as I recall costs looking quite different (at least membership).
Thanks, TC
I think the best option is to buy a cheap ready to race car and use it to learn with before I finish the Mercedes, I was thinking of an MX5 as I like the rear wheel drive and of course it's a cheap way to start racing. Since looking at other threads on here I've noticed a lot of love for Caterhams and Ma7da, now I'm not so sure! As I definitely plan to race the Merc I feel a full body car may be beneficial over a 7, but I know they are a hoot!
I'm going to book my ARDS next week for as soon as possible, I was given the MSA starter pack as a present a year or two ago so hopefully I can fit a few races in this year...
Any thoughts appreciated, also if MX5 is a good choice, what are the main differences between the 750MC and BRSCC as I recall costs looking quite different (at least membership).
Thanks, TC
I’m naturally biased towards the Caterham’s, but having watched and spoken to MX5 racers, they also seem to have a hoot.
Both produce close racing, and are good ways to learn your craft. Caterham’s have the advantage of having so many choices of series.
Normally I would recommend getting to some race weekends to check it out in person and speak to the racers, but obviously it’s a bit late for this season.
Both produce close racing, and are good ways to learn your craft. Caterham’s have the advantage of having so many choices of series.
Normally I would recommend getting to some race weekends to check it out in person and speak to the racers, but obviously it’s a bit late for this season.
Would be great to see you in Future Classics in the MX5, Mini or the Cosworth.
If you like your rally cars (as I do) you can now race these and group 4 cars with us also!
If you like your rally cars (as I do) you can now race these and group 4 cars with us also!
2022 Future Classic Regulations said:
Bodywork - 1970s Group 4 and Rally Cars
Acknowledged factory and dealer fit body modifications are permitted, for example arches and air dams fitted to works Rally Escorts, Lotus Sunbeams and Vauxhall Chevette’s. Group 4 factory modified race cars such as Porsche 911 RSR, BMW 3.0L CSL and M1, Alfa Romeo GT & GTV6, Fiat 131 Abarth, Opel Ascona and Manta and Ford Capri. Rules regarding front lights, wipers and stickers apply as above. Onboard cameras are highly recommended. Enquiries on eligibility are welcomed before registration.
CSCC Future Classics 2022 RegulationsAcknowledged factory and dealer fit body modifications are permitted, for example arches and air dams fitted to works Rally Escorts, Lotus Sunbeams and Vauxhall Chevette’s. Group 4 factory modified race cars such as Porsche 911 RSR, BMW 3.0L CSL and M1, Alfa Romeo GT & GTV6, Fiat 131 Abarth, Opel Ascona and Manta and Ford Capri. Rules regarding front lights, wipers and stickers apply as above. Onboard cameras are highly recommended. Enquiries on eligibility are welcomed before registration.
Nampahc Niloc said:
I’m naturally biased towards the Caterham’s, but having watched and spoken to MX5 racers, they also seem to have a hoot.
Both produce close racing, and are good ways to learn your craft. Caterham’s have the advantage of having so many choices of series.
Normally I would recommend getting to some race weekends to check it out in person and speak to the racers, but obviously it’s a bit late for this season.
Other than the cars themselves perhaps it's safe to assume there isn't the world of difference between them, I've been to various meetings to watch but haven't really got involved with the competitors due to having young needy children with me!Both produce close racing, and are good ways to learn your craft. Caterham’s have the advantage of having so many choices of series.
Normally I would recommend getting to some race weekends to check it out in person and speak to the racers, but obviously it’s a bit late for this season.
Thurbs said:
Would be great to see you in Future Classics in the MX5, Mini or the Cosworth.
If you like your rally cars (as I do) you can now race these and group 4 cars with us also!
Thanks, I still like rallying and the cars, but since getting a bit older the ease at which you can write of a car has lessened my interest in competing! One of my best friends is still very active and I regularly get involved with the cars whilst in the shop which is enough for me at present!If you like your rally cars (as I do) you can now race these and group 4 cars with us also!
Unfortunately the Mini wasn't built to historic spec (I was younger and a bit naive when I started the build) and with some of the modifications means it may not be legible but I will scour the rules as it would make sense to use it...
I guess it all depends on budget and how much want to spend on racing a second car whilst also spending money on the prep of the 190E?
Would love to see a 190E racing btw.
I haven’t raced an MX5 (but have rallied a Mk2 I hired of Paul Sheard) and they are great fun and spares etc should be easily available. Can be raced in CSCC and in other series such as the one make MX5 series if you keep it to their regs, obviously so a good choice but not sure how competitive a Mk1 MX5 is in Future Classics if you keep it to the one make regs?
I am a big fan of Caterham style racing, although only a relatively recent convert having raced a variety of hatchbacks, saloons and Porsche transaxle cars with CSCC. I now race a Caterham in CSCC Magnificent 7s and I really wish I had done it years ago. They are fantastic cars to race; a cliche but proper race cars! They are also probably the cheapest cars that I have ever raced as long as you stay with the more standard (say 140bhp) type engine packages - light on tyres, brakes, fuel consumption and even towing fuel. Mag 7s is a great place to race them with good driving standards and good VfM but if you bought something like a Sigma 135 engined car you could race it in CSCC, Caterham Graduates and the Toyo 7 series giving lots of freedom of choice depending on what suits your budget and calendar.
If it was me, and I could afford it on top of my 190E commitments, I would look at something like this:
https://www.cgrc.uk/Cms/Spaces/FORUM/For+Sale/Sigm...
(Nothing to do with me, and there may be cheaper options about)
One other thing to consider is that Caterham depreciation is very low, making it even more cost effective and parts and set up knowledge are readily available.
As for the ARDS test, I recommend The Motorsports School at Mallory Park - speak to Pete or Mel Edwards and they will help you out, really good people.
Would love to see a 190E racing btw.
I haven’t raced an MX5 (but have rallied a Mk2 I hired of Paul Sheard) and they are great fun and spares etc should be easily available. Can be raced in CSCC and in other series such as the one make MX5 series if you keep it to their regs, obviously so a good choice but not sure how competitive a Mk1 MX5 is in Future Classics if you keep it to the one make regs?
I am a big fan of Caterham style racing, although only a relatively recent convert having raced a variety of hatchbacks, saloons and Porsche transaxle cars with CSCC. I now race a Caterham in CSCC Magnificent 7s and I really wish I had done it years ago. They are fantastic cars to race; a cliche but proper race cars! They are also probably the cheapest cars that I have ever raced as long as you stay with the more standard (say 140bhp) type engine packages - light on tyres, brakes, fuel consumption and even towing fuel. Mag 7s is a great place to race them with good driving standards and good VfM but if you bought something like a Sigma 135 engined car you could race it in CSCC, Caterham Graduates and the Toyo 7 series giving lots of freedom of choice depending on what suits your budget and calendar.
If it was me, and I could afford it on top of my 190E commitments, I would look at something like this:
https://www.cgrc.uk/Cms/Spaces/FORUM/For+Sale/Sigm...
(Nothing to do with me, and there may be cheaper options about)
One other thing to consider is that Caterham depreciation is very low, making it even more cost effective and parts and set up knowledge are readily available.
As for the ARDS test, I recommend The Motorsports School at Mallory Park - speak to Pete or Mel Edwards and they will help you out, really good people.
Edited by andy97 on Monday 3rd January 11:36
Edited by andy97 on Monday 3rd January 11:44
Another vote for Caterhams. I used to race with the official series, now with Graduates, but could race with either, or Toyo 7's or all of them and many do.
For me the advantages of the Caterham route are -
They basically don't depreciate
Bits are (mostly) cheap and they are easy to fix
The Sigma engines are bullet proof (mine 6 years on the rev limit and counting)
The technical regs are mostly standardised across the clubs and are easy to understand
They are built to take the punishment. Although mechanical DNF's do happen, they are rare
There is a wealth of support & knowledge available
They feel like a race car, rather than a road car in race clothing
The racing is close - closer than almost anything else. I had a race last year where 3 of us were within 2/1000ths at the line. Just think about that when F1 work in tenths. The timing equipment wasn't up to splitting us, I was declared 3rd, 1st and finally 2nd, all in one race!
For me the advantages of the Caterham route are -
They basically don't depreciate
Bits are (mostly) cheap and they are easy to fix
The Sigma engines are bullet proof (mine 6 years on the rev limit and counting)
The technical regs are mostly standardised across the clubs and are easy to understand
They are built to take the punishment. Although mechanical DNF's do happen, they are rare
There is a wealth of support & knowledge available
They feel like a race car, rather than a road car in race clothing
The racing is close - closer than almost anything else. I had a race last year where 3 of us were within 2/1000ths at the line. Just think about that when F1 work in tenths. The timing equipment wasn't up to splitting us, I was declared 3rd, 1st and finally 2nd, all in one race!
In keeping with the RWD theme and a bit like a 190e on steroids, my championship-winning Jag XJ40 is now for sale. Circa 300bhp, everything in date and ready to go bar the drivers harness but cost depending on happy to throw one of those in too. Eligible for CSCC Future Classics, CTCRC pre93 but it’s obvious home is the CTCRC Jaguar Challenge which is looking like a very exciting series in prospect. £4-5k depending which bits are included with it. 2021 champion and it’s got a pretty much fully documented history here:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIuJShtNatfh5RbsYH4...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIuJShtNatfh5RbsYH4...
Thanks for the replies, Caterhams are certainly popular and I fully understand why, however they are more expensive to buy and more than I'd like to spend on an "introductory" year. They will also be undoubtedly faster than the MX5's which again, in my first year isn't something I'm looking for (can tell I'm getting old 
)
The 190 is caged and painted, I've bought everything other than the brakes and electronics which will cost a packet but prepared for it. Planning to go full hog with it and will build the engine once its already track ready, I've put ITBs on already.
If I do go with an MX5 it will likely be with 750MC to begin with, costs seem very reasonable and the grid looks huge, racing seems very tight nit too and as most components are standard they should be cheap to run, well under 1t too.
The Jag is appealing, money no issue I'd race a TWR XJ-S but not there yet! Perhaps you can link to some details or PM?
)The 190 is caged and painted, I've bought everything other than the brakes and electronics which will cost a packet but prepared for it. Planning to go full hog with it and will build the engine once its already track ready, I've put ITBs on already.
If I do go with an MX5 it will likely be with 750MC to begin with, costs seem very reasonable and the grid looks huge, racing seems very tight nit too and as most components are standard they should be cheap to run, well under 1t too.
The Jag is appealing, money no issue I'd race a TWR XJ-S but not there yet! Perhaps you can link to some details or PM?
topcat1 said:
Well I made a decision and bought a race ready mx5 today! I'll be taking delivery at Brands near the end of the month so I can test it on a track day, can't wait (unless it's snowing )!
Thanks for the replies and messages, looking forward to meeting people in a couple of months.
Exciting day! You’ll need to do a Readers Cars thread.)!Thanks for the replies and messages, looking forward to meeting people in a couple of months.
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff