MSVR/ MSN Circuit rally championship
Discussion
I thought I would start a new thread on this as previous discussion in the 2021 Rallying thread on “General Motorsport” understandably just got lost within the discussion of the WRC and BRC championships etc and I think that this fits better in the club motorsport section.
And before anyone moans, I have no connection to the organising club or MSN etc but I am a registered competitor (albeit a novice in rallying terms), but have only done a couple of these events in the past.
Plenty of people will argue it is not proper rallying as it is single venue circuit based but I don’t really care. In my view it is highly competitive, attracts a wide variety of cars and experience and is a great introduction to rallying if you don’t fancy circuit racing or rallying in forests etc, and might still want to do something competitive.
Cars have to be log booked (inspected by a senior scrutineer ahead of an event) in accordance with the MSUK blue book and normal rally organisation and rules apply.
Rallying tends to be a bit more “libre” than circuit racing and there are many cars at the front end of the classes that are very sophisticated but cars that are relatively simply prepared can also compete. For eg, there is a class specifically for MX5s (I rallied a hired one from Paul Sheard Motorsport at Donington a year ago and it was brilliant), there is a class for “classic cars” (pre 1980) and they do not have to be to FIA homologated requirements, there are separate classes for 4wd cars with H pattern boxes and new for this season there is a class for all up to 2 litre cars with H pattern gearboxes.
I have entered the new class for up to 2 litre cars with an H pattern gearbox in an old Ford Escort Pinto and I am hoping to do about 4 rounds this year. Entry is in for the Neil Howard Stages at Oulton Park on 6 Nov.
The classes are:
Class A Class B Class C Class MX5 Class D1 Class D2 Class E1 Class E2 Class H Class GT
Additional Provisions
All cars up to and including 1400cc
All cars between 1401cc and 1600cc
All cars between 1601cc and 2000cc
All Mazda MX5 cars between 1595cc and 2010cc
All 2WD Cars of 2001cc and over
All 2WD Cars up to 2000cc fitted with a H-Pattern Gearbox
All 4WD Cars fitted with a H-Pattern Gearbox
All other 4WD cars
Classic Class
GT cars in line with Motorsport UK R46.4 Regulations or FIA G/T Regs
TBH I think that the MX5 class could be one of the cheapest ways to get into tarmac stage rallying and the car would also be eligible for other things (racing, potentially, Targas, track days etc,). I think that the Mk2 that I hired from Paul Sheard could probably be built for about £7-8k.
There is a thread specifically about rallying an MX5 here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The MSVR/MSN circuit rally calendar is here:
http://msnrallychamp.co.uk/calendar/
Further details are here:
http://msnrallychamp.co.uk/
With full regulations available via the “registrations” tab
Or the series has its own FB page.
And before anyone moans, I have no connection to the organising club or MSN etc but I am a registered competitor (albeit a novice in rallying terms), but have only done a couple of these events in the past.
Plenty of people will argue it is not proper rallying as it is single venue circuit based but I don’t really care. In my view it is highly competitive, attracts a wide variety of cars and experience and is a great introduction to rallying if you don’t fancy circuit racing or rallying in forests etc, and might still want to do something competitive.
Cars have to be log booked (inspected by a senior scrutineer ahead of an event) in accordance with the MSUK blue book and normal rally organisation and rules apply.
Rallying tends to be a bit more “libre” than circuit racing and there are many cars at the front end of the classes that are very sophisticated but cars that are relatively simply prepared can also compete. For eg, there is a class specifically for MX5s (I rallied a hired one from Paul Sheard Motorsport at Donington a year ago and it was brilliant), there is a class for “classic cars” (pre 1980) and they do not have to be to FIA homologated requirements, there are separate classes for 4wd cars with H pattern boxes and new for this season there is a class for all up to 2 litre cars with H pattern gearboxes.
I have entered the new class for up to 2 litre cars with an H pattern gearbox in an old Ford Escort Pinto and I am hoping to do about 4 rounds this year. Entry is in for the Neil Howard Stages at Oulton Park on 6 Nov.
The classes are:
Class A Class B Class C Class MX5 Class D1 Class D2 Class E1 Class E2 Class H Class GT
Additional Provisions
All cars up to and including 1400cc
All cars between 1401cc and 1600cc
All cars between 1601cc and 2000cc
All Mazda MX5 cars between 1595cc and 2010cc
All 2WD Cars of 2001cc and over
All 2WD Cars up to 2000cc fitted with a H-Pattern Gearbox
All 4WD Cars fitted with a H-Pattern Gearbox
All other 4WD cars
Classic Class
GT cars in line with Motorsport UK R46.4 Regulations or FIA G/T Regs
TBH I think that the MX5 class could be one of the cheapest ways to get into tarmac stage rallying and the car would also be eligible for other things (racing, potentially, Targas, track days etc,). I think that the Mk2 that I hired from Paul Sheard could probably be built for about £7-8k.
There is a thread specifically about rallying an MX5 here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The MSVR/MSN circuit rally calendar is here:
http://msnrallychamp.co.uk/calendar/
Further details are here:
http://msnrallychamp.co.uk/
With full regulations available via the “registrations” tab
Or the series has its own FB page.
Edited by andy97 on Monday 11th October 10:39
I competed in the first year of this as a driver and did 6 or so of the events in my trusty mk2 escort. (2l pinto and h pattern box) so the new class for this spec does seem good.
I’ve navved a few times since and each year it has got bigger and more competitive with ever more expensive machinery up the front.
The latest fuel regs changes do seem to have caused a fair bit of chatter on fb though. Forcing championship folk to drain their fuel tank and remap their cars just to keep a sponsor happy is probably a step too far and not really in the same spirit as the clubman class !
I’ve navved a few times since and each year it has got bigger and more competitive with ever more expensive machinery up the front.
The latest fuel regs changes do seem to have caused a fair bit of chatter on fb though. Forcing championship folk to drain their fuel tank and remap their cars just to keep a sponsor happy is probably a step too far and not really in the same spirit as the clubman class !
fat80b said:
I competed in the first year of this as a driver and did 6 or so of the events in my trusty mk2 escort. (2l pinto and h pattern box) so the new class for this spec does seem good.
I’ve navved a few times since and each year it has got bigger and more competitive with ever more expensive machinery up the front.
The latest fuel regs changes do seem to have caused a fair bit of chatter on fb though. Forcing championship folk to drain their fuel tank and remap their cars just to keep a sponsor happy is probably a step too far and not really in the same spirit as the clubman class !
The latest rules regarding fuel are very annoying and at odds with the aim to encourage club level competitors in some of the classes in my view, but doesn’t stop the events being good fun and overall it’s a good concept. The events are well worth doing and you don’t need to be in the championship to do them.I’ve navved a few times since and each year it has got bigger and more competitive with ever more expensive machinery up the front.
The latest fuel regs changes do seem to have caused a fair bit of chatter on fb though. Forcing championship folk to drain their fuel tank and remap their cars just to keep a sponsor happy is probably a step too far and not really in the same spirit as the clubman class !
I Like Tea said:
Looked into to doing this in my Lotus a few years ago, is there still an upper engine capacity limit?
Can only point you at this from the MSUK “ Blur book”:“48.2.1. Production Car Engines:
(a) Petrol engines with a maximum of six cylinders, forced induction up to 2000cc with a 34mm restrictor or up to 2500cc with a 32mm restrictor, and diesel engines with forced induction up to 2500cc with a 37mm restrictor.
(b) Naturally aspirated with a maximum of six cylinders, and more than 2 valves per cylinder – up to 3000cc.
(c) Naturally aspirated with a maximum of six cylinders, and a maximum of 2 valves per cylinder – up to 3500cc
(d) Rover V8 pushrod engines up to 4000cc, utilising the original Rover head castings, and limited to either a maximum of 4 carburettor chokes or a single throttle body and the original plenum chamber.
48.2.2. Metro 6R4 2500cc and 2800cc (Single Plenum) engines complying with MSA Specification, exclusive to 6R4s.
48.2.3. Specialist Competition Engines:
(a) Naturally aspirated.
(b) No more than four cylinders.
(c) No more than four valves per cylinder. (d) Maximum capacity of 2,500cc.
48.2.4. Production Car Engines with a maximum of 2 rotors. (a) Rotary engine equivalence 1.7. Forced induction rotary
engines equivalence (1.7. x 1.7.) = 2.89.
(b) Rotary engines will be considered equivalent to 4 valves per cylinder petrol engines in respect of the maximum engine capacity including the application of equivalency factor (a) above.
48.2.5. Forced Induction engines must be fitted with a restrictor at a maximum of 50mm from the extremes of the compressor blades. The restrictor orifice to be to the dimensions currently in force in FIA Appendix ‘J’. Where there are two forms of forced induction fitted, the restrictor must not exceed the appropriate FIA Appendix ‘J’ dimensions. Provision must be made for fitting seals to the unit(s). A fee if £3.00 is payable for the sealing of turbo chargers.
48.2.6. With the exception of cars accepted under 46.3, a car may be fitted with a different engine, not exceeding 25% increase of the capacity of the model, when it was supplied as original equipment by its manufacturer.
48.2.7. The engine capacity of FIA R/GT cars complying with 46.3. shall be limited to the current FIA Regulations.
48.2.8. Historic Rally Cars that are fully compliant with 49 are permitted without a restriction on engine capacity in Stage Rallies.
48.2.9. Engine Oil Systems – Unless equipped with a closed loop system, a Catch tank of at least a one litre capacity to be incorporated in the oil breather system.”
Edited by andy97 on Friday 15th October 12:40
I've watched a few these on telly.
The onboards from the mid fielders are quite interesting. When the stage includes a portion or even a large portion of the circuit going the correct way around that circuit, it amazes me how much rally drivers back off for the corners, or get the lines hopelessly wrong. I'd have thought that a track day in your rally slag would be of immense benefit even if it's only for 25 percent of the total stage length but it appears not many take up this option
As an example, Paul O'Neill of BTCC fame did the Oulton events a few years back and was doing ok on the rally sections, but on the race track he'd take 10 secs out of his rivals.
wouldn't mind a go at this actually
how much bunce does it cost to hire a mx5?
The onboards from the mid fielders are quite interesting. When the stage includes a portion or even a large portion of the circuit going the correct way around that circuit, it amazes me how much rally drivers back off for the corners, or get the lines hopelessly wrong. I'd have thought that a track day in your rally slag would be of immense benefit even if it's only for 25 percent of the total stage length but it appears not many take up this option
As an example, Paul O'Neill of BTCC fame did the Oulton events a few years back and was doing ok on the rally sections, but on the race track he'd take 10 secs out of his rivals.
wouldn't mind a go at this actually
how much bunce does it cost to hire a mx5?
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
andy97 said:
I will PM you
received thanks.just need a rally licence, but hire charges appear to be typical for racing.
I thought the hire charges were very fair and Paul Sheard is a nice guy.
If I hadn’t already bought an Escort I would have probably tried to get an MX5 built for the circuit rallies.
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