Teesside International Circuit
Discussion
Hi.
Not sure if this is the right place to post this
I just read about "Teesside International Circuit" plans on what is now Teesside Airport. Does anybody have anymore information than this sites: https://www.williemiller.com/teesside-internationa...
Just to be clear this definitely IS NOT Teesside Autodrome/Karting.
Thanks.
Not sure if this is the right place to post this
I just read about "Teesside International Circuit" plans on what is now Teesside Airport. Does anybody have anymore information than this sites: https://www.williemiller.com/teesside-internationa...
Just to be clear this definitely IS NOT Teesside Autodrome/Karting.
Thanks.
Yep, what this country needs is another race circuit.
Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
Drumroll said:
Yep, what this country needs is another race circuit.
Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
I think it depends on what type of circuit you are trying to build. Something with an international rating would be hard to make pay, but a club venue like a Lydden or a Mallory might work in the right location especially if built around an old airfield. The circuit does not have to be either long, nor full of his speed corners ( as this requires more land for run off). However the chances of finding the land would de difficult.Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Drumroll said:
Yep, what this country needs is another race circuit.
Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
I think it depends on what type of circuit you are trying to build. Something with an international rating would be hard to make pay, but a club venue like a Lydden or a Mallory might work in the right location especially if built around an old airfield. The circuit does not have to be either long, nor full of his speed corners ( as this requires more land for run off). However the chances of finding the land would de difficult.Lets have a look at recent history, Rockingham closed, because they couldn't make it pay.
Circuit in wales (that had welsh Government money to fund it's building) Never really got off the ground.
Circuit in Northern Ireland stalled, indefinitely.
Most clubs have pulled back on their meetings (be it 2 or 4 wheels)
There is also the uncertainty of the future of racing passed the end of this decade, With the move away from the ICE.
So I can really see someone investing in another circuit (not)
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I think it depends on what type of circuit you are trying to build. Something with an international rating would be hard to make pay, but a club venue like a Lydden or a Mallory might work in the right location especially if built around an old airfield. The circuit does not have to be either long, nor full of his speed corners ( as this requires more land for run off). However the chances of finding the land would de difficult.
We have a lot of people who compete , but , so far as racing is concerned , they often do so in competing series , thus diluting the offering . Circuits won't survive , let alone new ones get built , without significant support from the local community . and before the chorus of 'infamy , infamy , they've all got it infamy , bloody nimbys etc ' is sung we need to a look at ourselves a bit harder . And think about how a circuit can be used in a way which benefits more than the enthusiast - and even more importantly , people who support racing need to get off their arses and actually turn up to more than headline stuff like BTCC In my area hillclimbs can get decent numbers, because you get a great view , get close to cars on track and mingle with drivers in the paddock . Autograss and drag racing gets great support - they are days out for the family. But far too many national race meetings can feel unfriendly , if not hostile to the casual visitor . Long periods of inactivity ,daft 'no go 'areas in the paddock and sometimes over zealous security staff. It needs to liven up - but the car tribe needs to do its bit and turn up. At my local circuit nothing gets a crowd apart from BTCC , local PR is awful but - weirdly - Time Attack has got a lot of people in the gates .
It is not my thing at all - but I'm too old , not into JDM subculture and far prefer pukka racing - but it works . do we need more events like that? If not what appeals ? .
Circuits in my opinion are not the problem, the more the merrier.
Its the racing event 'packages' that are the problem, and their ability to draw in the crowds and the money.
Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships.
The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
These days, many events don't hold enough 'value' for the spectator to be bothered to leave his/her sofa.
Looking at what is included in the 2020 BTCC event at Silverstone for example, the BTCC of course, but the only other main race is the Porsche Sprint challenge, with the other races being 'grass roots'.
Is this enough to bring out the spectators in volume? Only the die-hard BTCC or Porsche fans I suspect.
Just adding that for grass roots and club level motorsport, times are hard these days with ever escalating costs. Its a struggle for the circuits to make money and for the teams/racers to get value for money too. Sponsorship and ticket incomes are tighter than ever. Difficult days.
But hopefully if events can look to provide better spectacles and draw in the crowds then UK motorsport can keep going at all levels.
Its the racing event 'packages' that are the problem, and their ability to draw in the crowds and the money.
Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships.
The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
These days, many events don't hold enough 'value' for the spectator to be bothered to leave his/her sofa.
Looking at what is included in the 2020 BTCC event at Silverstone for example, the BTCC of course, but the only other main race is the Porsche Sprint challenge, with the other races being 'grass roots'.
Is this enough to bring out the spectators in volume? Only the die-hard BTCC or Porsche fans I suspect.
Just adding that for grass roots and club level motorsport, times are hard these days with ever escalating costs. Its a struggle for the circuits to make money and for the teams/racers to get value for money too. Sponsorship and ticket incomes are tighter than ever. Difficult days.
But hopefully if events can look to provide better spectacles and draw in the crowds then UK motorsport can keep going at all levels.
Edited by GroundZero on Friday 24th April 11:14
GroundZero said:
Circuits in my opinion are not the problem, the more the merrier.
Its the racing event 'packages' that are the problem, and their ability to draw in the crowds and the money.
Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships.
The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
These days, many events don't hold enough 'value' for the spectator to be bothered to leave his/her sofa.
Looking at what is included in the 2020 BTCC event at Silverstone for example, the BTCC of course, but the only other main race is the Porsche Sprint challenge, with the other races being 'grass roots'.
Is this enough to bring out the spectators in volume? Only the die-hard BTCC or Porsche fans I suspect.
Just adding that for grass roots and club level motorsport, times are hard these days with ever escalating costs. Its a struggle for the circuits to make money and for the teams/racers to get value for money too. Sponsorship and ticket incomes are tighter than ever. Difficult days.
But hopefully if events can look to provide better spectacles and draw in the crowds then UK motorsport can keep going at all levels.
The problem is people want different things. It is part of the reason we have so many series in the UK.Its the racing event 'packages' that are the problem, and their ability to draw in the crowds and the money.
Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships.
The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
These days, many events don't hold enough 'value' for the spectator to be bothered to leave his/her sofa.
Looking at what is included in the 2020 BTCC event at Silverstone for example, the BTCC of course, but the only other main race is the Porsche Sprint challenge, with the other races being 'grass roots'.
Is this enough to bring out the spectators in volume? Only the die-hard BTCC or Porsche fans I suspect.
Just adding that for grass roots and club level motorsport, times are hard these days with ever escalating costs. Its a struggle for the circuits to make money and for the teams/racers to get value for money too. Sponsorship and ticket incomes are tighter than ever. Difficult days.
But hopefully if events can look to provide better spectacles and draw in the crowds then UK motorsport can keep going at all levels.
Edited by GroundZero on Friday 24th April 11:14
Whilst accepting that touring cars are the biggest draw in UK racing, it is not something I would go to watch. Much prefer a clubby meeting. Never really got into Drag racing either. Yet before this spent most of my weekends doing something motorsport related.
Back to the topic even before all this, clubs were looking at refining (less meetings etc) what they do. Adding an extra circuit would not improve that situation.
If you can remember the racing ahead meetings they were designed to have more races in a day in quick succession. The problem was a lot of the drivers didn't like it for various reasons. (Lack of practice time, stricter time frames etc)
The Powertour was almost an embarrassment of riches , and unthinkable now , where one show has to dominate.
Nowadays the BTCC gets the crowds - mainly because it effectively has a reality tv series to plug it . It's good for what it is , but the support races are often dire and I far prefer the fare offered by CSCC and HSCC . Not because they are older cars , but because they are not spec cars like Clios etc and because the CSCC especially gets big grids of fantastically diverse cars.
But I hugely miss a pukka British Formula 3 series - GP apart, the only real single seater stuff now is historic. And yet for years - from the first F3 race I saw at Croft in 1970 to the last good one I saw at Oulton with Danny Ric and Hulkenberg in 2012 -ish - British F3 was THE single seater series . If you saw somebody good , you knew they'd be in F1 soon. I've seen everybody from Hunt to Senna to Montoya etc in F3 but now .... oh dear , a shadow of what it was .
Nowadays the BTCC gets the crowds - mainly because it effectively has a reality tv series to plug it . It's good for what it is , but the support races are often dire and I far prefer the fare offered by CSCC and HSCC . Not because they are older cars , but because they are not spec cars like Clios etc and because the CSCC especially gets big grids of fantastically diverse cars.
But I hugely miss a pukka British Formula 3 series - GP apart, the only real single seater stuff now is historic. And yet for years - from the first F3 race I saw at Croft in 1970 to the last good one I saw at Oulton with Danny Ric and Hulkenberg in 2012 -ish - British F3 was THE single seater series . If you saw somebody good , you knew they'd be in F1 soon. I've seen everybody from Hunt to Senna to Montoya etc in F3 but now .... oh dear , a shadow of what it was .
coppice said:
The Powertour was almost an embarrassment of riches , and unthinkable now , where one show has to dominate.
Nowadays the BTCC gets the crowds - mainly because it effectively has a reality tv series to plug it . It's good for what it is , but the support races are often dire and I far prefer the fare offered by CSCC and HSCC . Not because they are older cars , but because they are not spec cars like Clios etc and because the CSCC especially gets big grids of fantastically diverse cars.
But I hugely miss a pukka British Formula 3 series - GP apart, the only real single seater stuff now is historic. And yet for years - from the first F3 race I saw at Croft in 1970 to the last good one I saw at Oulton with Danny Ric and Hulkenberg in 2012 -ish - British F3 was THE single seater series . If you saw somebody good , you knew they'd be in F1 soon. I've seen everybody from Hunt to Senna to Montoya etc in F3 but now .... oh dear , a shadow of what it was .
But isn't that part of the problem now, for both drivers and spectators, there is no clear path? You used to go FF1600, then then FF2000, then F3 (the most prestiges was the British F3 championship) The best went F1 the rest went F2 or F3000 or moved over to sports and GT racing.Nowadays the BTCC gets the crowds - mainly because it effectively has a reality tv series to plug it . It's good for what it is , but the support races are often dire and I far prefer the fare offered by CSCC and HSCC . Not because they are older cars , but because they are not spec cars like Clios etc and because the CSCC especially gets big grids of fantastically diverse cars.
But I hugely miss a pukka British Formula 3 series - GP apart, the only real single seater stuff now is historic. And yet for years - from the first F3 race I saw at Croft in 1970 to the last good one I saw at Oulton with Danny Ric and Hulkenberg in 2012 -ish - British F3 was THE single seater series . If you saw somebody good , you knew they'd be in F1 soon. I've seen everybody from Hunt to Senna to Montoya etc in F3 but now .... oh dear , a shadow of what it was .
Now there are so many "feeder" series that to an extent it dilutes the process. Take formula e as an example unless you really follow motorsport I doubt if many had heard of the British drivers currently in the series. As you said go back in time and you could look back at a two year old F3 race programme and you would see half that years F1 grid in it.
GroundZero said:
Circuits in my opinion are not the problem, the more the merrier. Its the racing event 'packages' that are the problem, and their ability to draw in the crowds and the money.
Not all circuits are the same though, Castle Combe doesn’t need race packages, they put on a variety of races to cater for all tastes drawing from many series and clubs and its finally a nice venue and they work hard to ensure facilities etc are clean and plentiful. GroundZero said:
Inters
Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships. The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
Only certain circuits could host the Powertour though due to the required infrastructure both on and off the circuit and some needed serious investment first, whether it was profitable is debatable...Racing events need to come together and give better value for money at a day's event to mean that the spectator has top flight racing all day long.
For example, if anybody can remember the "Power Tour" events of 90's/early 2000's, such events brought together the British GTs, British Formula 3, UK Porsche Cup along with a number of the grass roots UK championships. The "Power Tour" drew large crowds in to circuits and as such made the circuits 'profitable' to a large extent.
GroundZero said:
These days, many events don't hold enough 'value' for the spectator to be bothered to leave his/her sofa.
There will always be a core who will always go to watch club motorsport, but if it’s a nice day, you see a lot more families at Castle Combe, more than likely not planned in advance, investing in the facilities etc is paying dividends there. It’s the “floating” or “occasional “spectator that is important. Put it this way, if Castle Combe had a small playground, they’d get a lot more families...GroundZero said:
Looking at what is included in the 2020 BTCC event at Silverstone for example, the BTCC of course, but the only other main race is the Porsche Sprint challenge, with the other races being 'grass roots'. Is this enough to bring out the spectators in volume? Only the die-hard BTCC or Porsche fans I suspect.
BTCC is as close to football as motorsport gets in the U.K. spectators have favourite cars and drivers, wear the branded clothing and thousands will go for the BTCC races (3 races in a day) alone. The rest will go because it’s nearby, a nice day, something to do, kids are away, meet up with friends etc. GroundZero said:
Just adding that for grass roots and club level motorsport, times are hard these days with ever escalating costs. Its a struggle for the circuits to make money and for the teams/racers to get value for money too. Sponsorship and ticket incomes are tighter than ever. Difficult days. But hopefully if events can look to provide better spectacles and draw in the crowds then UK motorsport can keep going at all levels.
I’m not sure how much “better value” club motorsports can be? A spectator can pay £25 for about 9 hours entertainment at Shelsley Walsh and less than £20 at Castle Combe. Compare with championship (tier 2) football which is at least £30 for 90 minutes... sure no one has as much of a vested interest in Dave from Swindon in his Formula Ford bar Dave’s family but club motorsport is still very good value for money.Competitors do it because they love it, CSCC got it right with the 40 minute, two driver approach as it halves costs but still offers good seat time. What happens on the track is what entertains the spectator but organising clubs must put the needs and wants of their competitors first.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 26th April 15:40
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