Why are clubs so anti-engine swap?
Discussion
I've had a K20 Elise track day car for 3 years or so at this point. Last year I removed the supercharger and started gearing it towards Lotus Cup UK regs to open up some options for racing. That was until LCUK died a death and only the Elise Trophy was rescued.
I did my ards a few weeks ago and bought the last few bits to get the car race ready, but the problem is that there isn't really anywhere to race it, besides a few open series.
It would probably be a good fit for something like CSCC New Millenium or 750 Roadsports. 750 for example are even happy for you to swap the engine for another from the same manufacturer/group or one that the manufacturer has used.
It just makes no sense to me. I could fit a 300hp supercharged Toyota engine, but a 230hp K20 is not OK.
Similarly, you can take an old and very light CRX or DC2 and fit a K20 without issue.
Am I missing some intentions behind rules like this? It just makes no sense to me.
I did my ards a few weeks ago and bought the last few bits to get the car race ready, but the problem is that there isn't really anywhere to race it, besides a few open series.
It would probably be a good fit for something like CSCC New Millenium or 750 Roadsports. 750 for example are even happy for you to swap the engine for another from the same manufacturer/group or one that the manufacturer has used.
It just makes no sense to me. I could fit a 300hp supercharged Toyota engine, but a 230hp K20 is not OK.
Similarly, you can take an old and very light CRX or DC2 and fit a K20 without issue.
Am I missing some intentions behind rules like this? It just makes no sense to me.
Edited by mpit on Friday 27th September 21:58
Erm, I am not sure I agree. Plenty of clubs offer series where engine swaps are just fine, including 750mc, CSCC, BRSCC and MSV.
The reason clubs put limits on regulations is all about costs and leveling the competition. Without it grids would be full of monsterously powerfull, small, light cars.
The reason clubs put limits on regulations is all about costs and leveling the competition. Without it grids would be full of monsterously powerfull, small, light cars.
Edited by Thurbs on Friday 27th September 23:22
North West Sports & Saloons (aka CNC Heads) allow engine swaps.
http://www.barcnorthwestern.co.uk/championships/cn...
http://www.barcnorthwestern.co.uk/championships/cn...
Thurbs said:
Erm, I am not sure I agree. Plenty of clubs offer series where engine swaps are just fine, including 750mc, CSCC, BRSCC and MSV.
The reason clubs put limits on regulations is all about costs and leveling the competition. Without it grids would be full of monsterously powerfull, small, light cars.
750mc series seem to be only OK with engine swaps in production cars if it's from the same group or an engine that manufacturer has used.The reason clubs put limits on regulations is all about costs and leveling the competition. Without it grids would be full of monsterously powerfull, small, light cars.
Edited by Thurbs on Friday 27th September 23:22
CSCC New Millenium for example must be an engine available in the car in that period.
I'm not sure I get the costs bit - a £20k built standard engine is obviously more expensive than a £2k engine swap.
Lots of series allow engine swaps. You have to accept that you're going to be up against some serious machinery though.
It's not really a matter of a built 20k engine vs a 2k engine swap. People will do the engine swap and then spend the 20k building that engine into a monster. I know people in club racing with engines that cost them 40k and they're "competing" against guys who have built their whole car for £5k. It's the nature of the beast these days.
It's not really a matter of a built 20k engine vs a 2k engine swap. People will do the engine swap and then spend the 20k building that engine into a monster. I know people in club racing with engines that cost them 40k and they're "competing" against guys who have built their whole car for £5k. It's the nature of the beast these days.
Clubs are not anti engine swap. Most club series technical regulations are "evolved" with the competitors in mind. Generally the restrictions are there to help with costs. It does unfortunately mean that (as the OP has found) sometimes it does make it harder to move from one championship to another.
mpit said:
I'm not sure I get the costs bit - a £20k built standard engine is obviously more expensive than a £2k engine swap.
The issue isn't the scenario described above, where the same performance is achieved with a fraction of the budget. It's where the swap is made, and the same budget (or more) is lavished on the new motor, to give a different order of performance to anyone else.It also opens up the possibility (probability ....... certainty!!) that people will think outside of the box. Stipulate in the regs that only engines from production road vehicles, and there'll be an impossible task to prevent those with more money than anyone else, to make a strong argument that their Fiesta's engine from the short lived Caparo T1 is still a "production road" power unit.
mat205125 said:
The issue isn't the scenario described above, where the same performance is achieved with a fraction of the budget. It's where the swap is made, and the same budget (or more) is lavished on the new motor, to give a different order of performance to anyone else.
It also opens up the possibility (probability ....... certainty!!) that people will think outside of the box. Stipulate in the regs that only engines from production road vehicles, and there'll be an impossible task to prevent those with more money than anyone else, to make a strong argument that their Fiesta's engine from the short lived Caparo T1 is still a "production road" power unit.
No it's very possible to avoid that by doing what the MSV guys have done with Trackday Championship...It also opens up the possibility (probability ....... certainty!!) that people will think outside of the box. Stipulate in the regs that only engines from production road vehicles, and there'll be an impossible task to prevent those with more money than anyone else, to make a strong argument that their Fiesta's engine from the short lived Caparo T1 is still a "production road" power unit.
5.10 Engine:
5.10.1 All entries must be powered by a production car engine originally available through normal
commercial channels of a car manufacturer in quantities of not less than 1000 units within
12 consecutive months that is fitted in the original location with a rev limiter present.
5.10.2 Fitting forced induction to a vehicle originally homologated as Normally Aspirated is
permitted, subject to that vehicle submitting a declaration of parts used
Fill your boots OP!
https://www.trackdaychampionship.com/about-tdc/
Pretty sure you can also run that in the BRSCC Clubsport trophy as well.
https://brscc.co.uk/formulae/brscc-clubsport-troph...
In other words. Do your homework, plenty of options!
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