Extinguisher for circuit racing

[gixermark]

Hi Guys - i know i wont get a definitive formal answer here !! but i'm modifying/building a car for circuit racing right now... and i'm a bit confused on extinguisher regs.

blue book states 1.75L so you woudl assume you can still use the handheld system plumbed in... but they don't seem to be for sale anymore. there are 2.4L systems - but they will only pass scrutneering until end of next year ? does that mean 2021> they will not pass them ? or ok if the car was built/used before 2021 and the extinguisher is in date ?

i guess 4L plumbed in system is the belt and braces......... and seems the direction things may go.... i woudl like to avoid the size/weight (let alone cost) of these.... but if ultimately i will NEED one from 2021 then may as well get it done ?

[Kraken]

The litre thing is a red herring as it depends on what the extinguishant is. A Zero 360 FIA system is 2l for example.

It's all clearly stated in the blue book. Section K3 and Appendix 3 of the same section. From 2022 it has to be an FIA system so if you're fitting a new one you might as well do it now. If the car hasn't competed before January this year then you have no choice it has to be FIA.

All systems have to be serviced every two years now whereas it was recommended not mandatory before. Boggles my mind that some people I raced with were moaning because the 15 year old systems they had that had never been serviced were now scrap.

Edited by Kraken on Thursday 2nd May 19:58

[RobM77]

The current blue book rules are on pages 166 and 168 and Appendix 3 on the last page (page 197) of this: https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/158-197section... Appendix 3 gives the allowed capacities, which are different depending on the type of extinguisher. For the championship I intend to race in this year at least, handheld vs plumbed in is stated in the championship regulations, which point me to "Motorsport UK Yearbook Regulation K3.1.2(a)" (this is in the above link), which is defines plumbed in extinguishers. Note also this link, which talks about the 2022 cut off: https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/rulechangesoct... . Does anyone have a more up to date document discussing this? I'm buying a new extinguisher this week.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 8th May 14:03

[aww999]

My current track car has a plumbed in fire extinguisher, I think it's "in date" but I can't remember what material it discharges. Given we have some knowledgeable people here, could we broaden the thread to include a recommendation of the best option (powder/water/other) for vehicle use?

Thanks

[RobM77]

aww999 said:

My current track car has a plumbed in fire extinguisher, I think it's "in date" but I can't remember what material it discharges. Given we have some knowledgeable people here, could we broaden the thread to include a recommendation of the best option (powder/water/other) for vehicle use?

Thanks

+1 I'd be interested in this too. I did some research at the weekend and some people who had accidentally discharged their AFFF extinguishers were saying they were alarmed at how puny the output was. This is leaning me towards a '360' gas system. Also, I think we are obliged to follow manufacturer's installation instructions, which I've checked for Lifeline and they state transverse mounting only for extinguishers (presumably so they don't break free in a head on crash with high longitudinal g force; ref the 'torpedo tabs' mentioned in the Blue Book). All I can see for sale for AFFF that comply with the above MSA capacity regs are 4L cylinders (!) that are over 40cm long, which is way too long for the passenger footwell of my new car when mounted transversely. The gas systems I've found are much more compact. Lighter too (~3kg vs ~6kg). Sadly it's ~£200 vs £500 though...

Does anyone know about FIA regs abroad? I'd love to take my new car to Spa.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 8th May 16:23

[Kraken]

I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking the system is there to put a fire out in the car. It's not, it's primary function is to give the driver the few seconds he needs to get out of the car.

If you've ever seen a car go up and the amount of handheld extinguishers it takes to put the fire out properly you'd realise that its not practical for the system in the car to be that size.

[RobM77]

Kraken said:

I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking the system is there to put a fire out in the car. It's not, it's primary function is to give the driver the few seconds he needs to get out of the car.

If you've ever seen a car go up and the amount of handheld extinguishers it takes to put the fire out properly you'd realise that its not practical for the system in the car to be that size.

I’m not sure how that would influence a buying decision? I’d choose a better system over a weaker system every time.

[Kraken]

Define a better system though? Under the FIA regs they all have to pass the same test so by definition there isn't a weak system or strong system.

Nearly all professional teams that I've seen use Zero 360 systems which I would presume is because of the weight saving rather than any performance factors.

[RobM77]

Kraken said:

Define a better system though? Under the FIA regs they all have to pass the same test so by definition there isn't a weak system or strong system.

It's a test, not a spec. The difference is that tests are a minimum standard for approval; beyond that standard there’s infinite scope for variety. To use an analogy, all road cars pass an MoT, but that doesn’t mean all road cars are as safe and roadworthy as each other, it just means they all exceed the basic MoT standard. Specifically, two cars that have passed an MoT may have different stopping distances from different tyre tread depth, age of tyres, make of tyre, brake pads used, callipers etc. With extinguishers, properties that vary for example are the type of extinguisher (novec, AFFF etc), capacity, nozzle design, nozzle location etc; they all pass the minimum standard, but their performance will vary compared to one another and those properties combine to give a spectrum of effectiveness at tackling fire.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 9th May 10:39