Towing Advice - weight
Discussion
I've been towing my Brian James Sprint Shuttle loaded with my race car, wheels and spares for years now with no problems. My tow car (2010 BMW E90 320d) weighs 1489kg and the fully loaded trailer just over 1400kg. Kerb weight > trailer weight, so it's close, but I'm happy and I've been al over the UK without issues.
I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided to hire something more capable. I've enquired about renting something that will tow, and have found a Mitsubishi L200. The thing is, when I google the L200's towing limit I get 3500kg, but its kerb weight is only 1790kg, which surely blows the whole kerb weight thing out of the water? Clearly there are other factors at play. Do I actually need to rent the L200? Does anyone know how my 1489kg 3 series would cope with towing 1650kg?
thanks.
ps - I passed my test before 1997, so am ok on that front.
I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided to hire something more capable. I've enquired about renting something that will tow, and have found a Mitsubishi L200. The thing is, when I google the L200's towing limit I get 3500kg, but its kerb weight is only 1790kg, which surely blows the whole kerb weight thing out of the water? Clearly there are other factors at play. Do I actually need to rent the L200? Does anyone know how my 1489kg 3 series would cope with towing 1650kg?
thanks.
ps - I passed my test before 1997, so am ok on that front.
Edited by RobM77 on Monday 1st April 12:15
The short answer is that if i was you then i would want to be using the L200 which is better built for the job hence the higher tow allowance.
In an ideal world it would be safer to have the tow vehicle heavier than the trailer. There are several other complex legal weights to take into account, Gross Train Weight and Towball nose weight limits spring to mind.
In an ideal world it would be safer to have the tow vehicle heavier than the trailer. There are several other complex legal weights to take into account, Gross Train Weight and Towball nose weight limits spring to mind.
drmotorsport said:
The short answer is that if i was you then i would want to be using the L200 which is better built for the job hence the higher tow allowance.
In an ideal world it would be safer to have the tow vehicle heavier than the trailer. There are several other complex legal weights to take into account, Gross Train Weight and Towball nose weight limits spring to mind.
Thank you. It's £65 to hire for the day, so not too bad. I was thinking of renting the L200 when I need it for the next year, and when it comes time to change my car considering a 530d estate instead of another 320d.In an ideal world it would be safer to have the tow vehicle heavier than the trailer. There are several other complex legal weights to take into account, Gross Train Weight and Towball nose weight limits spring to mind.
It did surprise me though to see such a high towing limit for the L200 relative to its kerb weight (pretty much double!), which made me question my reluctance to tow with my 3 series.
This will be of a bit more use to you...
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make=BM...
It looks as though you'll be a little outside the theoretical towing limit of 1650Kg with yours being 1600Kg, unless your BM is a tourer?
Looks like you'll piss it in an L200....very useful site that UKtow.....
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp?make=BM...
It looks as though you'll be a little outside the theoretical towing limit of 1650Kg with yours being 1600Kg, unless your BM is a tourer?
Looks like you'll piss it in an L200....very useful site that UKtow.....
Edited by shaunroche on Monday 1st April 12:47
Most of these dual cab pickups can tow up to 3500kg now, so that Farmer Giles can get his stock to market, or Bob can transport his excavator.
Speaking from experience, my L200 with 2 tonnes towed behind it, pulls it easily (trailer + 1.5 tonne digger).
Oh, and stick it in 4WD high, makes it even more stable, not all pickups can do this.
Speaking from experience, my L200 with 2 tonnes towed behind it, pulls it easily (trailer + 1.5 tonne digger).
Oh, and stick it in 4WD high, makes it even more stable, not all pickups can do this.
Edited by Mammasaid on Monday 1st April 12:50
RobM77 said:
I've been towing my Brian James Sprint Shuttle loaded with my race car, wheels and spares for years now with no problems. My tow car (2010 BMW E90 320d) weighs 1489kg and the fully loaded trailer just over 1400kg. Kerb weight > trailer weight, so it's close, but I'm happy and I've been al over the UK without issues.
I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided
You're sure that's a 'rule'? I always thought it was a 'rule of thumb' or a 'recommendation' from the caravan club or similar. I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided
I don't think it's a 'law'
Basically I'm saying stick with the BMW.
That's a frustrating website, it has neither of my Cars on it. I can forgive it not having the Alfa Giulia, but its not even got a Skoda Yeti on it. It must be donkeys years out of date.
Its a question I have been vexed with for a while, The manufacturers tow weight for the Yeti I tow with is 1800kg (1.4Tsi 4x4), way more than the kerb weight, my current Caravan is well inside this, but I'd want to get a larger one in a year or two, which would be over the kerb weight but less than the manufacturers weight. I have no doubt the Car would cope as its a superb little towcar, but is it legal?
Its a question I have been vexed with for a while, The manufacturers tow weight for the Yeti I tow with is 1800kg (1.4Tsi 4x4), way more than the kerb weight, my current Caravan is well inside this, but I'd want to get a larger one in a year or two, which would be over the kerb weight but less than the manufacturers weight. I have no doubt the Car would cope as its a superb little towcar, but is it legal?
HustleRussell said:
RobM77 said:
I've been towing my Brian James Sprint Shuttle loaded with my race car, wheels and spares for years now with no problems. My tow car (2010 BMW E90 320d) weighs 1489kg and the fully loaded trailer just over 1400kg. Kerb weight > trailer weight, so it's close, but I'm happy and I've been al over the UK without issues.
I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided
You're sure that's a 'rule'? I always thought it was a 'rule of thumb' or a 'recommendation' from the caravan club or similar. I need to collect another race car soon that's within my trailer's weight capacity, but will put my total trailer weight up to 1650kg, beyond the kerb weight of my tow car. BMW state my car's towing limit as 1800kg, but going by the kerb weight rule I've decided
I don't think it's a 'law'
Basically I'm saying stick with the BMW.
I think the law in simple terms is laied out here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/towing-...
And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
Munter said:
I think the law in simple terms is laied out here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/towing-...
And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
Thank you; that's what I wondered, so nothing to do with stability at all, just pulling power. I'm 100% confident my car can physically haul 1650kg, because it manages 1400kg so well, but I'm worried about stability should I encounter cross winds, or slipstream from lorries etc.And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
I've pretty much decided to rent the L200
RobM77 said:
Munter said:
I think the law in simple terms is laied out here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/towing-...
And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
Thank you; that's what I wondered, so nothing to do with stability at all, just pulling power. I'm 100% confident my car can physically haul 1650kg, because it manages 1400kg so well, but I'm worried about stability should I encounter cross winds, or slipstream from lorries etc.And towing weight by the manufacturer, if I recall correctly, is based on it's ability to tow that weight up a slight incline (5 degrees or something), without destroying the clutch/drive train. Hence the L200 having a huge tow weight, because all that stuff is chunky on that vehicle.
I've pretty much decided to rent the L200
Shuttle style trailers are more aerodynamic than caravans and have better weight distribution. They carry their weight low on small wheels and have a low hitch height. This is the reason why IMO you can ignore the caravan club's rule of thumb.
The L200 is higher and bouncier with a longer rear overhang. The tow bar is probably going to be too high for the trailer.
RobM77 said:
Thank you. It's £65 to hire for the day, so not too bad. I was thinking of renting the L200 when I need it for the next year, and when it comes time to change my car considering a 530d estate instead of another 320d.
It did surprise me though to see such a high towing limit for the L200 relative to its kerb weight (pretty much double!), which made me question my reluctance to tow with my 3 series.
It shouldn’t really be surprising. For most people including those post 97 test pass who have done their trailer test. The max you can tow is 3500kg. But on a normal license you can’t drive a vehicle with a total MAM more than 3500kg. So at the max weights you’ll not get a tow car as heavy as the load it can pull. It did surprise me though to see such a high towing limit for the L200 relative to its kerb weight (pretty much double!), which made me question my reluctance to tow with my 3 series.
Things like Land Rover 90’s have been rated to tow 3500kg since forever. Same with Range Rovers and many other 4x4’s like Shoguns.
If you think about it. All 18 wheelers tow trailers much heavier than the tractor unit too. Same as farm tractors.
velocemitch said:
That's a frustrating website, it has neither of my Cars on it. I can forgive it not having the Alfa Giulia, but its not even got a Skoda Yeti on it. It must be donkeys years out of date.
Its a question I have been vexed with for a while, The manufacturers tow weight for the Yeti I tow with is 1800kg (1.4Tsi 4x4), way more than the kerb weight, my current Caravan is well inside this, but I'd want to get a larger one in a year or two, which would be over the kerb weight but less than the manufacturers weight. I have no doubt the Car would cope as its a superb little towcar, but is it legal?
Have you thought of using Google. There is tons of info on the web. And lot on the .gov site. Its a question I have been vexed with for a while, The manufacturers tow weight for the Yeti I tow with is 1800kg (1.4Tsi 4x4), way more than the kerb weight, my current Caravan is well inside this, but I'd want to get a larger one in a year or two, which would be over the kerb weight but less than the manufacturers weight. I have no doubt the Car would cope as its a superb little towcar, but is it legal?
As long as you do not exceed any axel weight on the 'train' (car or trailer), do not exceed the gross train weight, the manufacturers recommended towing limit, the tow bar limit, are correctly licenced, everything is type approved and secured correctly you are good to go.
If however, you have an accident caused by an incorrect load (in part or wholly due to an imbalance of vehicle and trailer weights or how the vehicle is loaded on to the trailer), you may be liable for prosecution. This may include prison depending on the circumstances.
I regularly tow a 900kg trailer and a 1290kg car behind a 2200kg rated M5 no problem. When towing with the Disco 4, it is a dream.
Forgot to say, remember different statutary speed limits apply depending on the road type and you can not use the outer most lane when there are 3 or more lanes in use.
If however, you have an accident caused by an incorrect load (in part or wholly due to an imbalance of vehicle and trailer weights or how the vehicle is loaded on to the trailer), you may be liable for prosecution. This may include prison depending on the circumstances.
I regularly tow a 900kg trailer and a 1290kg car behind a 2200kg rated M5 no problem. When towing with the Disco 4, it is a dream.
Forgot to say, remember different statutary speed limits apply depending on the road type and you can not use the outer most lane when there are 3 or more lanes in use.
I'd seriously consider a van if I were you, they are built for moving stuff so unsurprisingly they are great for moving tools/spares/wheels/bed(?) and towing as well.
I've got a transit custom and its towing capacity is 2.9 tonne, so only slightly less that the 4x4 brigade but miles more space for the rest of the stuff.
HTH,
Dunc.
I've got a transit custom and its towing capacity is 2.9 tonne, so only slightly less that the 4x4 brigade but miles more space for the rest of the stuff.
HTH,
Dunc.
My towing weights have gone up now with a larger trailer but now I'm using the wifes Macan to tow and MAM is over 3500KG so I have to do my B+E Trailer test.
Its annoying as the trailer, car, towing car are under 3500kg, but because the Macan has a MAM of 4445kg and i passed my test after 1997 i have to go through the agro of B+E!
Its annoying as the trailer, car, towing car are under 3500kg, but because the Macan has a MAM of 4445kg and i passed my test after 1997 i have to go through the agro of B+E!
As said, its a rule of thump for caravans, not the law for low CofG trailers.
I would use the BM, you will barely notice the difference, but if you want to hire an pickup for a bit why not. Just make sure the ball height isn't going to trip you up, and if you can put 100-200kg on the bed over the rear axle.
Towed a 1200kg diy (slab sided) racebox behind a 316 E36 compact before now, all 100bhp of its 8v 1,6 petrol. You had to drop to 4th and floor it on steep bits of the motorway to maintain 55mph due to the appalling aero of what was basically just a square box a foot higher and wider than the car, but drove well for hundreds of miles to dosens of event and on anything other than a motorway/dualcarrage you basically wouldnt have known.
That site is awful for towing figures, parkers guide specs pages are much easier to use and better maintained.
Actually surprised you have found anywhere that will high you something with a towbar. Around here no where will hire me a ready to use tow vehicle of any sort at all and none of the van have tow-balls. The only thing they off is vehicle-only hire intended for business, where you have to provide the insurance. Not an issue if you have a fleet policy but very hard to achieve economically as a private individual.
Daniel
I would use the BM, you will barely notice the difference, but if you want to hire an pickup for a bit why not. Just make sure the ball height isn't going to trip you up, and if you can put 100-200kg on the bed over the rear axle.
Towed a 1200kg diy (slab sided) racebox behind a 316 E36 compact before now, all 100bhp of its 8v 1,6 petrol. You had to drop to 4th and floor it on steep bits of the motorway to maintain 55mph due to the appalling aero of what was basically just a square box a foot higher and wider than the car, but drove well for hundreds of miles to dosens of event and on anything other than a motorway/dualcarrage you basically wouldnt have known.
That site is awful for towing figures, parkers guide specs pages are much easier to use and better maintained.
Actually surprised you have found anywhere that will high you something with a towbar. Around here no where will hire me a ready to use tow vehicle of any sort at all and none of the van have tow-balls. The only thing they off is vehicle-only hire intended for business, where you have to provide the insurance. Not an issue if you have a fleet policy but very hard to achieve economically as a private individual.
Daniel
dhutch said:
Actually surprised you have found anywhere that will high you something with a towbar. Around here no where will hire me a ready to use tow vehicle of any sort at all and none of the van have tow-balls. The only thing they off is vehicle-only hire intended for business, where you have to provide the insurance. Not an issue if you have a fleet policy but very hard to achieve economically as a private individual.
Agreed, this is the same experience I had when I tried in the past (spring broke on my Dad's mondeo estate when I was collecting it to use as a tow vehicle)Dunc.
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