Caterham wet / winter track tyre choice

[Ducati07]

Hi guys,

Trying to get in lots of practice over the winter for 2019 CSCC Magnificent 7’s (my first race series!) - I would be grateful for any opinions on a good all round winter track tyre (something that will cope with the inevitable wet day); and that I can potentially use during the series next year for wet days. I have a few sets of rims so was wondering whether it’s overkill to get 2-3 sets, with something specifically for standing water level of wet, or whether there was a good all rounder for damp / wet.

I’ve used the nankang ar1 this summer, which are great, but these are pretty unforgiving in the wet.

I’m running r13 with 6’’ fronts and 8’’ rears (superlight R).

Thanks in advance,

[Oilchange]

I suspect ar1 tyres will be expensive and pointless in standing water. I would get a few sets of Uniroyal rainsports which I think would be a lot less dear and give you the best wet weather performance assuming you cant go full wets.
Dry track and you have to get heat into the ar1 and away you go

This is assuming you can get them in the right sizes...

[df76]

For a full wet / standing water, you'd be needing something like this:

http://www.avonmotorsport.com/road-legal/performan...

Or the Rainsports as recommended above for a cheap option.

You probably won't be able to do everything on one tyre. What tyres do the Mag 7 front runners use? Follow that. The main Caterham series run on one tyre, but bound to be compromised in the wet.

Edited by df76 on Wednesday 28th November 08:17

[andy97]

A lot of people use Avon cr28s in the wet. A good tyre.
I qualified at Oulton Park on them in truly awful conditions and had good confidence in them.

I use AR1s in the dry (got a good deal) but Avon ZZR are very popular, and ZZS in marginal conditions.

[Steve H]

I don't think Rainsports are available in 13" but there's plenty of part worn wets off single seaters out there.

[HustleRussell]

Uniroyal Rainsports as race wets on a racing car? List 1a tyres? seriously?

[thetrickcyclist]

Correct. He wants rainexpert3.

[HustleRussell]

thetrickcyclist said:

Correct. He wants rainexpert3.

GTFO. They are good enough for my mum's Corsa...

[RichieG1]

I asked BMTR for some advice on Caterham wets earlier this year, they said;

- Avon CR28 - £400 plus VAT & delivery
- Avon Radial Race Wet - £661 plus VAT & delivery

Both for staggered 6" / 8" setup.

As I'm a mere track day enthusiast I decided to book late and book dry days! Got some ZZS on for the winter and just picked up a set of ZZRs used for a couple of races only for £100 that I can blitz when the weather warms up.

[Ducati07]

Thanks chaps - I think I will order a set of ZZS and see what they're like in the rain - then probably swap my AR1's for ZZR's before the beginning of the season (they'll be worn by then). There is a temptation to also get some CR28's for those really wet days but cost is already mounting for next years race season.....

The nice thing about running the ZZS/ZZR/CR28 combo is that they're all the same ratio so wont screw up ride height / geo if swapping over

[HustleRussell]

As per your other thread in the Caterham sub-forum, if you have three sets of wheels you need to think about having a set for practice, otherwise you'll be taking the best out of your tyres when it doesn't count for anything.

I can't imagine anybody carries dry / intermediate / full wet tyres as you are suggesting. What do the competition do? It helps to go and spy on the competition the season before you intend to enter to get answers such as this...

Finally, races which are wet enough, and crucially stay wet enough, for the CR28 are statistically going to be few and far between so unless you are clearing bucket loads of water throughout the ZZS or ZZR will be quicker which is why, as per your thread in the Caterham sub-forum, I have been keen to emphasise that the semi-slicks probably aren't nearly as bad in the wet as you think, and a lot of your success in wet races will depend on your ability to run on the fastest, not the 'safest' tyre. So through the winter, practice on what you will most likely run i.e. semi slicks in all conditions.

They do long races over in Mag 7s. It is all very well and good lining up all smug on your special wet weather tyres which you have been waiting to bust out for a season and a half, until a dry line appears eight minutes in and your competitors start going ten seconds a lap quicker on semi-slicks.

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 29th November 13:08

[Ducati07]

Very good advice - thanks, sounds like the ZZS/ZZR combo will suffice. I didn't actually realise the significance of running a new (scrubbed) set of tyres for the actual race, so this is good to know. I'm sure it will be a steep learning curve!

[HustleRussell]

Ducati07 said:

Very good advice - thanks, sounds like the ZZS/ZZR combo will suffice. I didn't actually realise the significance of running a new (scrubbed) set of tyres for the actual race, so this is good to know. I'm sure it will be a steep learning curve!

Some of it may in fact be very poor advice! I am sure I heard somewhere that the Avons are actually at their fastest once most of the tread has been worn off, which is the direct opposite of the Yokohamas upon which all of my experience is based. The Yokos seemed to be at their absolute best in the first hot session and normalised thereafter, working very well down to 2-3mm or so, by which time they’re dropping off due to heat cycles.

I was in Sigmax last year. Due to the LSD that car felt great with new tyres on the front and more worn tyres on the rear. The same was true of the Elan I raced in 2016 which ran Dunlops.

I remember there being a bit of a science around the CR500s on the R300 race cars. Can’t for the life of me remember which way around it was but it was all about having fresh tyres one end and shagged ones the other.

My point is that all tyres have a sweet spot, so no matter what you don’t want to waste that on a test session hence test set. Also there’s a lot to learn with tyres so three varieties is likely to be a royal head fk.

You always want the best grip you can get on the front, especially the front left.

Certainly in the wet there is nothing better than new tyres all around.

Prior to 2015 all the racing I did was on List 1As, which are probably even harder to get right…

[Henry Fiddleton]

Echoing the above post.

Semi slicks are actually very good in the wet (except standing in water).

The problem is you need to hang in there to get heat in them - and for me personally, its that phase that will gain/lose you the most lap time. Its practice that makes it better.