Modifying front roll cage legs

[smiles1]

Does anyone know a way to make these front roll cage legs legal to MSA regs?

Thanks

https://flic.kr/p/21eVt8o

[Drumroll]

Looks like a new cage needed to me.

[frodo_monkey]

^ bang on.

[Dan BSCS]

Yup, agreed.

They bend the wrong way to be braced top to bottom

Dan

[andye30m3]

As others have said i don't think you'll be able to use that as the front legs shouldn't have bends in them.

Even the safety devises ones for the clio 172/172 that miss the dash board but have a straight front leg can't be used anymore. I believe the reason for this is that's the wording in the blue book says the cage should follow the a pillar for as long as possible,

[Jerry Can]

if you are intending to use the car for MSA circuit events and it is less than 2000cc, there is no requirement to have a front part to a roll cage - this is in the blue book. Technically therefore you would be ok to use this cage ( so long as the back half is msa compliant). However whether you'd want to...

[frodo_monkey]

Question on that ^ - I seem to remember it coming up in scrutineering once a few years back...

I can’t find a reference in the Blue Book, but I seem to remember a big discussion with the scrutineers at Cadwell. A similar front cage was fitted, and the scrutineers wouldn’t pass it because of something like “if it is fitted it has to be in accordance with Chapter K” despite there being no requirement to actually have a front cage fitted. Car was a 1.4 Metro, but I can’t remember if it was allowed to race or not.

Any scrutineers on here able to comment?

[smiles1]

Thanks Guys, it's not my car but I've always been intrigued as I see front legs like this quiet frequently on cars for sale and wondered if anything could be done to make it compliant or if you were in need of a new cage (which seems to be the case going on the above).

[Dan BSCS]

Jerry Can said:

if you are intending to use the car for MSA circuit events and it is less than 2000cc, there is no requirement to have a front part to a roll cage - this is in the blue book. Technically therefore you would be ok to use this cage ( so long as the back half is msa compliant). However whether you'd want to...

Whilst this is true in terms of generic Blue Book regs nearly all the Championship/Series regs I have read through specify a 6 point cage regardless of engine size.

Dan

[Weslake-Monza]

Yep under 2 litre (except forced induction etc) doesn't need a full cage unless the supplementary regs for the series require one to be fitted. As for the scrutes - page 160 of the 2018 blue book - 1.6.1 refers to K1 or K2. So drawing K1 on page 178 which doesn't even have a diagonal gets the job done.

Remember MSA rules are the opposite to MOT rules. For an MOT if your car doesn't need something but has it - classic car too old for a rear fog light - it must work or it fails. MSA rules if it doesn't need it it does NOT need to work or be compliant, but mustn't be hazardous.

[Thurbs]

I have one which came out of a Clio 182 if you are interested?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1015433823...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1015298330...

PM me for a haggle...

The cage is on the east coast but I can bring it to Cambs or Bucks.

Would need an additional door brace if racing with the Clio 182 championship as they have changed their regs for this year I believe.

[smiles1]

Thanks but it was a generic photo to ask the question and not the particular model of car I was looking at.

[Richair]

Dan BSCS said:

Jerry Can said:

if you are intending to use the car for MSA circuit events and it is less than 2000cc, there is no requirement to have a front part to a roll cage - this is in the blue book. Technically therefore you would be ok to use this cage ( so long as the back half is msa compliant). However whether you'd want to...

Whilst this is true in terms of generic Blue Book regs nearly all the Championship/Series regs I have read through specify a 6 point cage regardless of engine size.

Dan

Plus if it's in the car then it should comply with the regs, so I'd be very doubtful of 'getting away with it' on the technicality that it doesn't need a front cage. I wouldn't want to enter that debate with the scruts!!!! Plus rules or no rules, you need you head examining if you go circuit racing without a front cage IMO.

[Weslake-Monza]

If it's in the car it does NOT need to comply with the rules unless the Supplementary Regs say it must. I quoted the Blue Book references so anyone getting into a debate with the scrutes could simply show them the relevant pages.

[Dan BSCS]

Weslake-Monza said:

If it's in the car it does NOT need to comply with the rules unless the Supplementary Regs say it must. I quoted the Blue Book references so anyone getting into a debate with the scrutes could simply show them the relevant pages.

Yeah, because that always goes down really well.

[Thurbs]

A friend was excluded from a race and sent to the back of the grid for race 2 for an alleged infringement of series regulations regarding the clutch being “non-standard”. An appeal with the MSA was upheld and the points re-instated but there was clearly nothing which could compensate the grid penalty drop. Mostly the officials are ok but when one is “right” it is worth making sure you are not going to be unfairly disadvantaged as a result of an incorrect position being taken.