caterham graduates
Discussion
I'm thinking about taking the plunge next year and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on the best class to start in within the Caterham graduates club?
I'll be selling the existing toy and using this to fund the car etc and would have approx 15k towards the car (this will leave me 5-10k for trailer, spares, license etc etc. I used to have a k series 140 car a number of years back and was thinking of either super or mega graduates. As a new starter should I be looking at:
1. starting with super
2. going straight to mega as thats where you will need up?
3. Looking at sigma cars at all and as above?
4. does it matter...just get the best car regardless available at the time
Any thoughts greatly appreciated
Steve
I'll be selling the existing toy and using this to fund the car etc and would have approx 15k towards the car (this will leave me 5-10k for trailer, spares, license etc etc. I used to have a k series 140 car a number of years back and was thinking of either super or mega graduates. As a new starter should I be looking at:
1. starting with super
2. going straight to mega as thats where you will need up?
3. Looking at sigma cars at all and as above?
4. does it matter...just get the best car regardless available at the time
Any thoughts greatly appreciated
Steve
With that sort of budget couldn't you race 'proper' Caterham championships (I say proper not to say that the graduates aren't but to differentiate between the company run version). I have never raced with Caterhams but I have been to a lot of the meetings run by Caterham and they seem very efficient and come with hospitality and the factory is on site with lorry loads of spares.
The Grads club is great. Good choice! It's been a long time since I was in a Caterham Motorsport paddock but I'd be very surprised indeed if the official series was in a similar ballpark budget-wise to Grads.
The Grads, being the 'unofficial', always fostered a great club spirit.
If you want to race a k-series car, take your pick- there isn't a massive price difference in it. The transmission probably being the main differentiator in terms of running cost, the Megagrad series permitting the use of a straight cut gearset and paddle clutch. The helical gearbox in the Supergrad tends to be more reliable and cheaper to fix. The Supers aren't much slower than the Megas in the real world- less of a gulf than the official specs would suggest at least, with a good super making as much as 130bhp on a rolling road and a good mega making around 140bhp.
The main advantage with Megas is that when the event organisers occasionally combine the grids, the Megas end up starting in front of the Supers. The Mega is a racier experience due mostly to that transmission and the revvier engine.
I raced in Classics for 4 years but did get to try a Mega on a few occasions and for someone who has raced or tracked Caterhams before I wouldn't say that going straight to Megas would be a foolish move. These days it is not cost effective to upgrade a Super to Mega spec so if you bought a Super and then wanted to upgrade to Mega it'd involve selling the car and buying another, so if you ultimately want to race a Mega I'd say just jump in there.
When the club started admitting the Sigma powered cars we saw a significant migration of ex-academists and supersport racers from the official series and Sigma and Sigmax both boast excellent grids. The cars are newer and more expensive but as all series except the Classics run the same tyre spec and regs, your pre-crash running costs are not going to vary wildly from one category to another.
In summary JFDI.
The Grads, being the 'unofficial', always fostered a great club spirit.
If you want to race a k-series car, take your pick- there isn't a massive price difference in it. The transmission probably being the main differentiator in terms of running cost, the Megagrad series permitting the use of a straight cut gearset and paddle clutch. The helical gearbox in the Supergrad tends to be more reliable and cheaper to fix. The Supers aren't much slower than the Megas in the real world- less of a gulf than the official specs would suggest at least, with a good super making as much as 130bhp on a rolling road and a good mega making around 140bhp.
The main advantage with Megas is that when the event organisers occasionally combine the grids, the Megas end up starting in front of the Supers. The Mega is a racier experience due mostly to that transmission and the revvier engine.
I raced in Classics for 4 years but did get to try a Mega on a few occasions and for someone who has raced or tracked Caterhams before I wouldn't say that going straight to Megas would be a foolish move. These days it is not cost effective to upgrade a Super to Mega spec so if you bought a Super and then wanted to upgrade to Mega it'd involve selling the car and buying another, so if you ultimately want to race a Mega I'd say just jump in there.
When the club started admitting the Sigma powered cars we saw a significant migration of ex-academists and supersport racers from the official series and Sigma and Sigmax both boast excellent grids. The cars are newer and more expensive but as all series except the Classics run the same tyre spec and regs, your pre-crash running costs are not going to vary wildly from one category to another.
In summary JFDI.
Bias alert: I'm secretary of the club.
As James says, upgrading cars isn't cost effective so choose what you want to race in. Having said that, you won't lose much/anything on a Classic/Super/Mega when you sell it. Sigmas and Sigmax (Supersport) are depreciating a bit, but not much. For £15K you are very close to a Sigmax cost, so really you can choose anything. There are fast and not so fast, experienced and not so experienced drivers in every class so don't worry about that.
And for the record, we do have refreshments, lunch and tea at our events!
Not sure where you are, but if you would like to come along to Thruxton on 3rd/4th October then let me know (secretary at graduates dot org dot uk).
Also note that we will be racing at Spa again next year....
As James says, upgrading cars isn't cost effective so choose what you want to race in. Having said that, you won't lose much/anything on a Classic/Super/Mega when you sell it. Sigmas and Sigmax (Supersport) are depreciating a bit, but not much. For £15K you are very close to a Sigmax cost, so really you can choose anything. There are fast and not so fast, experienced and not so experienced drivers in every class so don't worry about that.
And for the record, we do have refreshments, lunch and tea at our events!
Not sure where you are, but if you would like to come along to Thruxton on 3rd/4th October then let me know (secretary at graduates dot org dot uk).
Also note that we will be racing at Spa again next year....
CharlesElliott said:
Bias alert: I'm secretary of the club.
I am looking at Grads and would like to know more about the costs. Is that something you would be happy to post on here? How often are engines/gearboxes are being rebuilt and what are the costs?
I understand its difficult to give typical budgets but perhaps you could tell me what the race fees and common consumables costs. Tyres, pads & disks, wishbones, nosecones! etc
Edited by ex1 on Monday 7th September 19:21
HustleRussell said:
The club has five classes, it might be worth manoeuvring yourself over to the club website to have a look at them. Running costs vary.
To save me trawling through the club site website do you have a link? Just looking for some indication of costs for a couple of the classes really.Let me trawl that for you
For what it's worth I reckoned upon spending around £7k to run a season in Classics, This is a shoestring budget and it doesn't include the start-up costs of;
-buying the car
-buying a trailer
-gaining a licence
-buying racewear, including a HANS device which I believe the MSA is making mandatory from 2016
That does include (typically) a half test day or a trackday before each race weekend and two nights in the cheapest possible travelodge.
That budget would probably cover a cylinder head refresh and a gearbox inspection (if you remove and refit the engine / gearbox yourself) and the maximum permitted 3 sets of Classics tyres.
If you're into crashing or blowing up engines and transmissions you can spend significantly more.
Consumables. Classics tyres are about 240 a set (scrubbed). Last time I looked, the Yokohama A048rs used by the other classes are about 400 a set.
brake discs around 35 per pair, will last at least two seasons
brake pads 50-100 per axle set, should last a season
Crashing.
Front wing 40
Rear wing 60
Nosecone about 100 (can’t remember)
Radiator 200
Upright 130
Steering rack 220
Big crash- chassis long front with some new suspension 3,500+
For what it's worth I reckoned upon spending around £7k to run a season in Classics, This is a shoestring budget and it doesn't include the start-up costs of;
-buying the car
-buying a trailer
-gaining a licence
-buying racewear, including a HANS device which I believe the MSA is making mandatory from 2016
That does include (typically) a half test day or a trackday before each race weekend and two nights in the cheapest possible travelodge.
That budget would probably cover a cylinder head refresh and a gearbox inspection (if you remove and refit the engine / gearbox yourself) and the maximum permitted 3 sets of Classics tyres.
If you're into crashing or blowing up engines and transmissions you can spend significantly more.
Consumables. Classics tyres are about 240 a set (scrubbed). Last time I looked, the Yokohama A048rs used by the other classes are about 400 a set.
brake discs around 35 per pair, will last at least two seasons
brake pads 50-100 per axle set, should last a season
Crashing.
Front wing 40
Rear wing 60
Nosecone about 100 (can’t remember)
Radiator 200
Upright 130
Steering rack 220
Big crash- chassis long front with some new suspension 3,500+
HustleRussell said:
Let me trawl that for you
For what it's worth I reckoned upon spending around £7k to run a season in Classics, This is a shoestring budget and it doesn't include the start-up costs of;
-buying the car
-buying a trailer
-gaining a licence
-buying racewear, including a HANS device which I believe the MSA is making mandatory from 2016
That does include (typically) a half test day or a trackday before each race weekend and two nights in the cheapest possible travelodge.
That budget would probably cover a cylinder head refresh and a gearbox inspection (if you remove and refit the engine / gearbox yourself) and the maximum permitted 3 sets of Classics tyres.
If you're into crashing or blowing up engines and transmissions you can spend significantly more.
Consumables. Classics tyres are about 240 a set (scrubbed). Last time I looked, the Yokohama A048rs used by the other classes are about 400 a set.
brake discs around 35 per pair, will last at least two seasons
brake pads 50-100 per axle set, should last a season
Crashing.
Front wing 40
Rear wing 60
Nosecone about 100 (can’t remember)
Radiator 200
Upright 130
Steering rack 220
Big crash- chassis long front with some new suspension 3,500+
ThanksFor what it's worth I reckoned upon spending around £7k to run a season in Classics, This is a shoestring budget and it doesn't include the start-up costs of;
-buying the car
-buying a trailer
-gaining a licence
-buying racewear, including a HANS device which I believe the MSA is making mandatory from 2016
That does include (typically) a half test day or a trackday before each race weekend and two nights in the cheapest possible travelodge.
That budget would probably cover a cylinder head refresh and a gearbox inspection (if you remove and refit the engine / gearbox yourself) and the maximum permitted 3 sets of Classics tyres.
If you're into crashing or blowing up engines and transmissions you can spend significantly more.
Consumables. Classics tyres are about 240 a set (scrubbed). Last time I looked, the Yokohama A048rs used by the other classes are about 400 a set.
brake discs around 35 per pair, will last at least two seasons
brake pads 50-100 per axle set, should last a season
Crashing.
Front wing 40
Rear wing 60
Nosecone about 100 (can’t remember)
Radiator 200
Upright 130
Steering rack 220
Big crash- chassis long front with some new suspension 3,500+
James has answered most of it. A season costs between £6K and £10K depending on how often you test, whether you camp or stay in hotels etc. £9.5K would probably get you a full season, testing at every event and staying in a Premier Inn type hotel.
Most people would not refresh a gearbox unless there was a problem, or maybe once every 2-3 years. Costs are around £250-£300 (excl removing the box). Engine refreshes might happen every 12-18 months for a K series, at something like £500, but probably never for a Sigma engine car.
Although many people in the series are not short of cash (and many are!) the ethos of the club is to have good value motor racing, and we try to avoid unnecessary costs, or paying for expensive items when there are just as good cheaper alternatives.
The board are all unpaid, all elected, and all race every weekend with the club....
Most people would not refresh a gearbox unless there was a problem, or maybe once every 2-3 years. Costs are around £250-£300 (excl removing the box). Engine refreshes might happen every 12-18 months for a K series, at something like £500, but probably never for a Sigma engine car.
Although many people in the series are not short of cash (and many are!) the ethos of the club is to have good value motor racing, and we try to avoid unnecessary costs, or paying for expensive items when there are just as good cheaper alternatives.
The board are all unpaid, all elected, and all race every weekend with the club....
well that was quick, looks like my car has sold in 2 hours (must of been too cheap!)
I'll have money burning in my pocket from Tuesday so will be looking for a car form then!
Thruxton is a great idea, would the 3rd or 4th be the best option....I'll check with the wife but I think I can now make either days that weekend.
Thanks for all your help
Steve
I'll have money burning in my pocket from Tuesday so will be looking for a car form then!
Thruxton is a great idea, would the 3rd or 4th be the best option....I'll check with the wife but I think I can now make either days that weekend.
Thanks for all your help
Steve
CharlesElliott said:
James has answered most of it. A season costs between £6K and £10K depending on how often you test, whether you camp or stay in hotels etc. £9.5K would probably get you a full season, testing at every event and staying in a Premier Inn type hotel.
Most people would not refresh a gearbox unless there was a problem, or maybe once every 2-3 years. Costs are around £250-£300 (excl removing the box). Engine refreshes might happen every 12-18 months for a K series, at something like £500, but probably never for a Sigma engine car.
Although many people in the series are not short of cash (and many are!) the ethos of the club is to have good value motor racing, and we try to avoid unnecessary costs, or paying for expensive items when there are just as good cheaper alternatives.
The board are all unpaid, all elected, and all race every weekend with the club....
Thanks. I have raced for many years so am comfortable with the general costs just wanted to get a better idea how much the front runners are spending. Surprising to hear that people aren't blueprinting engines or spending ££££ on tyres.Most people would not refresh a gearbox unless there was a problem, or maybe once every 2-3 years. Costs are around £250-£300 (excl removing the box). Engine refreshes might happen every 12-18 months for a K series, at something like £500, but probably never for a Sigma engine car.
Although many people in the series are not short of cash (and many are!) the ethos of the club is to have good value motor racing, and we try to avoid unnecessary costs, or paying for expensive items when there are just as good cheaper alternatives.
The board are all unpaid, all elected, and all race every weekend with the club....
I find budgets are very difficult to get a handle on until you have experienced things for yourself. In one of the last single make series I raced tyres were £400 a set which on the face of it didn't seem to bad until you realised the front runners were using 3 sets a weekend! Again engines were "sealed" but the top half of the grid were spending £4k+ on a refresh each year.
I am looking for a series where that isn't as prevalent and £10kpa is the upper end of the budgets not the bottom end.
Grads have an allocated engine builder and only they can inspect and seal engines. It seems to work. You might imagine those builders charge a fortune but they don't.
Every category has a three set per season limit on tyres, this is done on trust basically but seems to work. In any case there's only so many tyres you can wreck with a well balanced half ton car.
I'd suspect a significant proportion of competitors are racing on a sub- £10k budget, and even on my meagre budget of about two thirds of that I was able to run reasonably competitively in Classics taking podiums and a couple of wins.
Let me know if you're going to Thruxton and on which day, I might be going too.
Every category has a three set per season limit on tyres, this is done on trust basically but seems to work. In any case there's only so many tyres you can wreck with a well balanced half ton car.
I'd suspect a significant proportion of competitors are racing on a sub- £10k budget, and even on my meagre budget of about two thirds of that I was able to run reasonably competitively in Classics taking podiums and a couple of wins.
Let me know if you're going to Thruxton and on which day, I might be going too.
We don't have a timetable for Thruxton yet, but it will be qualifying Saturday morning, and three races during the rest of the day; Sunday will be three races.
Timetable will be here when it is ready: http://barc.net/events
If you would like to come, then I can probably help with tickets.
Timetable will be here when it is ready: http://barc.net/events
If you would like to come, then I can probably help with tickets.
Also some ready to race cars here: http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale.asp
But expect a few more to pop up as we get to the end of the season.
But expect a few more to pop up as we get to the end of the season.
CharlesElliott said:
We don't have a timetable for Thruxton yet, but it will be qualifying Saturday morning, and three races during the rest of the day; Sunday will be three races.
Timetable will be here when it is ready: http://barc.net/events
If you would like to come, then I can probably help with tickets.
Thanks for all your help, I aim to come on the Saturday and have spoken with Gareth re his car. Having a tow bar fitted to my family car as we speak Timetable will be here when it is ready: http://barc.net/events
If you would like to come, then I can probably help with tickets.
If you could provide a ticket that would be fantastic
Thanks again
Steve
you've obviously got what you need from Charles and others - just nipped in to say............I have raced both 'official' and Graduates on and off for years. They are both fantastic..........and if you want, there is little to choose between on professionalism if you select the professional team support in Graduates, or you can trailer and look after the car yourself.
I started in the Academy in 2005, then i've done Supers, R300s (official), back to Megas and on off for years.
It is literally amazing value for money. Amazing competition. Loads of talented guys that may not have budget to go further. Also, the club is ran fantastically well - the circuits are brilliant. The scrutineering is brilliant.
I can't recommend it highly enough. I've made some of my best friends in the world in Grads (and Academy).
Marvellous - get stuck in you will love it.
I started in the Academy in 2005, then i've done Supers, R300s (official), back to Megas and on off for years.
It is literally amazing value for money. Amazing competition. Loads of talented guys that may not have budget to go further. Also, the club is ran fantastically well - the circuits are brilliant. The scrutineering is brilliant.
I can't recommend it highly enough. I've made some of my best friends in the world in Grads (and Academy).
Marvellous - get stuck in you will love it.
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff