350z - would they make good race cars?

[Trackstar64]

Early 350zs. Would they make good cars for a clubmans level one emake series? It's just an idea - RWD, fun to drive, reliable (so I'm told), and early cars are not expensive. Any comments welcome.

[wildman0609]

they are quite heavy. don't know how much can be taken out of them but the ones i've seen race are heavy and therefore hard on consumables so expensive to run. engines are strong though.

the question is, do we need another one make series?

[NJH]

A much better idea would be something like the Honda S2000, reasonably light and loads of them around secondhand for not much money.

[Dave Brand]

Is there really any demand for yet another one-make series? There are plenty of established series/championships where a 350Z can run.

[wildman0609]

s2000 is a good shout. for the sort of money an s2000 or 350z you will have to draw people away from the boxster series which is starting to grow. I'd much rather race a boxster.

its interesting to hear that there will be several 996's out in porsche club next year as they are quickly becoming very affordable.

[NJH]

Going OT in to Porsche land yes it will be interesting a couple of Boxsters already out in the club championship. Having been close to both on track the S is either much to heavy or down on real power as it was barely if anything quicker than my 175k mile S2 bone stock engined S2 in a straight line. Also a big question on both the boxster or 996 over the engines ability to survive racing, again noting that the red S had a major engine issue. The 996 will be weighted up to over 1400Kg, I don't fancy its chances much TBH or running costs at that lardy weight.

Other poster is bang on though its not like anyone needs another one make or otherwise narrow race series.

[andy97]

Much better to race a 350Z (or S2000) in the Nippon series or one of the regional soports/ saloon series.

[Mark Benson]

NJH said:

A much better idea would be something like the Honda S2000, reasonably light and loads of them around secondhand for not much money.

I looked into racing an S2000, problem is they aren't really that light, they have heavy chassis which makes them a good road car (gives them stiffness despite not having a roof) but even stripped, they're pretty heavy and the power to weight isn't that great without forced induction.

I'd look into why the Nissan is so heavy, if it's structural, like the Honda, then it's a no-goer without a lot of engine work to make up for the weight, in which case you might as well start with something lighter and less stressed.

[Henry Fiddleton]

Plenty of race ready 944 S2s for sub 10k, imagine they are similar ish.

Put racing a 350z, would not be a pleasent experiance. There is a Supra twin turbo in the Northern Saloons- looks like fun, but pretty slow.

[wildman0609]

Henry Fiddleton said:

Plenty of race ready 944 S2s for sub 10k, imagine they are similar ish.

in road trim an s2 is 1300kg and a 350z is 1500kg. my s2 weighs 1050kg. so if you could remove 250kg from a 350z it would still weight 1250kg, which to me sounds like a lot, and weight ruins fun, and adds up cost. 350z has a lot more power though. i can see it eating rear tyres and ruining brake pads quickly.

[anonymous-user]

someone recently set up a one make championship for the 2.8 BMW Z3.

the problem is the support starts to drop off after a few years leaving teh championship struggling for grid numbers, the cars are either ineligible for other series or uncompetitive and when you build a car, allthe parts have to be bought from supplier x "to comply with the regulations" (and not because supplier x is mates with the organiser.....)

[Mark Benson]

Henry Fiddleton said:

There is a Supra twin turbo in the Northern Saloons- looks like fun, but pretty slow.

He does have a lot of fun, but our little (sub 1000kg, 190bhp) Clio runs rings around the big Supra.

[stinkysteve]

Mark Benson said:

Henry Fiddleton said:

There is a Supra twin turbo in the Northern Saloons- looks like fun, but pretty slow.

He does have a lot of fun, but our little (sub 1000kg, 190bhp) Clio runs rings around the big Supra.

Hi Mark Only 190bhp in your clio? that's like Pete Dixon claiming he's only got a 1600 in his civic!

Serious point though, John Hewitson's Supra is NA only and making sub 300bhp. It started out at something like 1500kg and after much work and some fibreglass panels is now still above 1200kg.

Back to the OP - Best car would be something light and reliable - MR layout would be optimal - That leads you straight into the Toyota MR2. Look no further for a base race car. (and a well contested 1 make championship)

If you want FR layout, It's an MX5. And another highly successful established series.

See you next year Mark?

[Mark Benson]

stinkysteve said:

Hi Mark Only 190bhp in your clio? that's like Pete Dixon claiming he's only got a 1600 in his civic!

...

See you next year Mark?

It's only a blueprinted 182 engine - we can't afford any trick bits. Sequential gearbox helps a bit though (and is the main reason we can't afford to go to town on the engine).

I thought Pete's K20 engine was supposed to be a secret, you've blown it now, he'll be along in a minute to deny it all....

Yes, we're back next year, hopefully a bit more frequently than this year now the wee one is doing well and out of hospital - but we might be looking at driving something different for next season, watch this space.

[rralston]

andy97 said:

Much better to race a 350Z (or S2000) in the Nippon series or one of the regional soports/ saloon series.

350Z as a race car would be a great proposition, although check out the Nippon series as mentioned above, the quick ones run 500-600bhp with forced induction.

In a UK series they'd be left for dead unless they had similar power, 1500kgs is 30-40% more than most saloon class cars, an with a standard 300bhp...........ouch!

Still tempted by a votex F20C though, 380bhp with an aluminium block and direct box......................

[Soul Reaver]

Mark Benson said:

It's only a blueprinted 182 engine - we can't afford any trick bits. Sequential gearbox helps a bit though (and is the main reason we can't afford to go to town on the engine).

I thought Pete's K20 engine was supposed to be a secret, you've blown it now, he'll be along in a minute to deny it all....

Yes, we're back next year, hopefully a bit more frequently than this year now the wee one is doing well and out of hospital - but we might be looking at driving something different for next season, watch this space.

Hi Mark

What does your 182 weigh please? Just had mine weighed at NHM and it came out at 880 without me in it. Is that good?

Mark

PS
Where can I buy a reasonable priced sequential from?

[Rude-boy]

TBH every 350z I have seen racing has looked like a boat out of water. Even the ones where the owners have spent mega money.

[Mark Benson]

Soul Reaver said:

Hi Mark

What does your 182 weigh please? Just had mine weighed at NHM and it came out at 880 without me in it. Is that good?

Mark

PS
Where can I buy a reasonable priced sequential from?

Sounds good to me, about 100kg lighter than ours which is a heavy old beast, just under the tonne. But it has a full FIA cage in (all the Clio Cup cars had them, and if you've seen the footage of the races, you'll know why...) which along with the seam welding makes it incredibly stiff, and is the reason it goes round corners so well. This isn't a converted road car though, it's built by Renault for the series and the handling between the road car (even with the Cup chassis) and ours is worlds apart.

Unfortunately there's no such thing as a cheap sequential box, I think second hand ones are going for £7-8k (if you can find one) and they need a rebuild every couple of seasons. Bloody good fun though Course, you could always buy a car with one in - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3371051.htm

Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 8th November 09:18

[RichardC27]

Rude-boy said:

TBH every 350z I have seen racing has looked like a boat out of water. Even the ones where the owners have spent mega money.

I'll agree with that. There was a car running in GT4 in British GT a couple of years back. It sounded lovely but was hopelessly outclassed. I think weight is a big issue with 350Zs on track. Maybe worth doing some research on the US racing scene? There seems to be a lot of Japanese stuff raced over there

[Redlake27]

They have been race winners in the BARC Dunlop Production Touring Car championship (nee Sport Maxx Cup) in standard form. They needed upgraded brakes to cope with the weight, but were level pegging with the Astra VXRs and Leon Cupras that dominate this championship. They look more fun though!

I tested one of the race cars. Excellent balance, reliable, predictable....and relatively cheap. They just consume a lot of fuel and brake padsm but not much else breaks. Sugges you speak to RJN Motorsport as they are the experts on this car in Production, VLN or GT4 spec.