Nav road rallies
Discussion
Hi all
I am looking to start Nav road rallies over the next few months hopefully. I am looking for suggestions on Cars. I have done a bit of practice in the past in my own car but dont fancy using it for !real! as this is my daily car for work. The criteria I think is necessary is quite nimble with decent steering and reilable if this isnt the case feel free to correct me if I have got it wrong. Budget is around 2.5k. What mods would you recommend to make the car better as I realise performance is normally the last thing that needs improved.
Thanks in advance
P.S if someone could recommend an active club in this discipline in around the Bathgate area I would be greatful as well.
I am looking to start Nav road rallies over the next few months hopefully. I am looking for suggestions on Cars. I have done a bit of practice in the past in my own car but dont fancy using it for !real! as this is my daily car for work. The criteria I think is necessary is quite nimble with decent steering and reilable if this isnt the case feel free to correct me if I have got it wrong. Budget is around 2.5k. What mods would you recommend to make the car better as I realise performance is normally the last thing that needs improved.
Thanks in advance
P.S if someone could recommend an active club in this discipline in around the Bathgate area I would be greatful as well.
Important factors are:
easiness to drive (power steering helps; something fairly torquey)
smallish size ideally so you can fit down narrow lanes and do 3 point turns in junctions
relatively comfortable - events are normally pretty rough
decent ground clearance
good handbrake!!
good lights
enough space inside to not be claustrophobic
Less important:
masses of power and the best handling in the business
Avoid:
anything with more than 4 cylinders; anything turbo; anything 4 wheel drive - not all events allow these
Most people tend to use older hot hatches (Golf, 205 etc) - that's to a great extent because only the keenest competitors typically do more than a few events a year, and many will keep cars year after year as they don't see much use otherwise.
It's worth getting something that upgrade parts are available for as you'll probably end up with stiffer springs and a sumpguard before long.
My suggestions would be something like a Mk3 Golf or a Focus of 2 litre petrol variety.
easiness to drive (power steering helps; something fairly torquey)
smallish size ideally so you can fit down narrow lanes and do 3 point turns in junctions
relatively comfortable - events are normally pretty rough
decent ground clearance
good handbrake!!
good lights
enough space inside to not be claustrophobic
Less important:
masses of power and the best handling in the business
Avoid:
anything with more than 4 cylinders; anything turbo; anything 4 wheel drive - not all events allow these
Most people tend to use older hot hatches (Golf, 205 etc) - that's to a great extent because only the keenest competitors typically do more than a few events a year, and many will keep cars year after year as they don't see much use otherwise.
It's worth getting something that upgrade parts are available for as you'll probably end up with stiffer springs and a sumpguard before long.
My suggestions would be something like a Mk3 Golf or a Focus of 2 litre petrol variety.
robg2 said:
Important factors are:
easiness to drive (power steering helps; something fairly torquey)
smallish size ideally so you can fit down narrow lanes and do 3 point turns in junctions
relatively comfortable - events are normally pretty rough
decent ground clearance
good handbrake!!
good lights
enough space inside to not be claustrophobic
Less important:
masses of power and the best handling in the business
Avoid:
anything with more than 4 cylinders; anything turbo; anything 4 wheel drive - not all events allow these
Most people tend to use older hot hatches (Golf, 205 etc) - that's to a great extent because only the keenest competitors typically do more than a few events a year, and many will keep cars year after year as they don't see much use otherwise.
It's worth getting something that upgrade parts are available for as you'll probably end up with stiffer springs and a sumpguard before long.
My suggestions would be something like a Mk3 Golf or a Focus of 2 litre petrol variety.
I'm wondering what fits the criteria that is RWD - to be honest, I'm pretty sure a MX5 sounds like a good bet easiness to drive (power steering helps; something fairly torquey)
smallish size ideally so you can fit down narrow lanes and do 3 point turns in junctions
relatively comfortable - events are normally pretty rough
decent ground clearance
good handbrake!!
good lights
enough space inside to not be claustrophobic
Less important:
masses of power and the best handling in the business
Avoid:
anything with more than 4 cylinders; anything turbo; anything 4 wheel drive - not all events allow these
Most people tend to use older hot hatches (Golf, 205 etc) - that's to a great extent because only the keenest competitors typically do more than a few events a year, and many will keep cars year after year as they don't see much use otherwise.
It's worth getting something that upgrade parts are available for as you'll probably end up with stiffer springs and a sumpguard before long.
My suggestions would be something like a Mk3 Golf or a Focus of 2 litre petrol variety.
Mmm - not sure to be honest, you need something that's good round the lanes and an MX5 might be a bit 'spritely' for that. Traction, predictability and reasonably good wheel travel are important here, not ultimate handling and grip.
An MX5 will be too cramped inside as well - think maps and clipboards etc.
A 3 series would be ok, but an LSD would be a must I should think to get round the tight junctions. But honestly for road rallies, handling and performance are not the most important aspects.
An MX5 will be too cramped inside as well - think maps and clipboards etc.
A 3 series would be ok, but an LSD would be a must I should think to get round the tight junctions. But honestly for road rallies, handling and performance are not the most important aspects.
i have navigated a road rally in a Dutton Phaeton and a Smart Roadster. The Dutton we ran without a roof and it was hilarious, we didnt win but we had great fun. The Smart was great fun too, the driver was a hooligan and again we were more interested in having fun than winning. plotting the route on the rear engine shelf outside was interesting, but it started rainign so we had to get in it to finish off.
I have navigated in a Clio 172 Cup too which I think is probably the perfect car. the handling is awesome for b-roads and the ride is ok for the navigator. the go ok to for the dash back to the checkpoints.
£2.5K should get a good clio.
I have navigated in a Clio 172 Cup too which I think is probably the perfect car. the handling is awesome for b-roads and the ride is ok for the navigator. the go ok to for the dash back to the checkpoints.
£2.5K should get a good clio.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 2nd October 18:39
pablo said:
i have navigated a road rally in a Dutton Phaeton and a Smart Roadster. The Dutton we ran without a roof and it was hilarious, we didnt win but we had great fun. The Smart was great fun too, the driver was a hooligan and again we were more interested in having fun than winning. plotting the route on the rear engine shelf outside was interesting, but it started rainign so we had to get in it to finish off.
I have navigated in a Clio 172 Cup too which I think is probably the perfect car. the handling is awesome for b-roads and the ride is ok for the navigator. the go ok to for the dash back to the checkpoints.
£2.5K should get a good clio.
I would think:I have navigated in a Clio 172 Cup too which I think is probably the perfect car. the handling is awesome for b-roads and the ride is ok for the navigator. the go ok to for the dash back to the checkpoints.
£2.5K should get a good clio.
Dutton = no good, too low, and maps & route cards will blow away in the wind.
Smart = no good, not enough space inside
Clio = yes this would be an ideal car. Decent non-Cups must come along at less than £2.5k surely? Road rallies can be tough on cars too, so a mediocre example would be fine!
Eg...
http://www.mandh-photography.co.uk/events/prest10/...
Edited by robg2 on Tuesday 4th October 14:11
Most important thing is a good plotting light, a potti socket and plenty of door pockets and pencil holders. Forget about performance until your navigator can plot on the move correctly without being sick. It's amazing how far you can be off route very quickly in a fast car with a navigator who is lost. (And don't take a solar powered calculator to work the average speeds out or you'll be the source of ridicule for many years)
I've competed in Nav/Road Rallies in a variety of cars including 205 Gti, Golf Mk2, Nova sri, Proton Satria, Daihatsu Charade, Rover 214 and Toyota Corolla GT.
We've even won an event outright in the Rover which is almost standard save for a full cage/seats/belts and decent suspension/brakes. The engine is only putting out about 120Bhp as well iirc. (15 up on standard?)
You don't need big power to win a road rally, you need a nimble car, a reliable driver who listens to the nav and a good navigator and most of all practice to build the level of trust between the two of you.
I know with my usual driver that if I tell him to miss a road on the left, continue for 300 yards and wait for my next instruction while I check times or plot some route he will do that without disappearing into the night... well, usually!
We've even won an event outright in the Rover which is almost standard save for a full cage/seats/belts and decent suspension/brakes. The engine is only putting out about 120Bhp as well iirc. (15 up on standard?)
You don't need big power to win a road rally, you need a nimble car, a reliable driver who listens to the nav and a good navigator and most of all practice to build the level of trust between the two of you.
I know with my usual driver that if I tell him to miss a road on the left, continue for 300 yards and wait for my next instruction while I check times or plot some route he will do that without disappearing into the night... well, usually!
Yep, fully agree with everything you said there.
An arguable point I know, but road rallies require much more brain power than just going as fast as you can all the time everywhere. It's a team effort, and a quick car that wants to spit you off the road at every corner isn't going to help the navigator.
Worst car I have navigated in was actually the fastest, ironically (Corolla AE86).
An arguable point I know, but road rallies require much more brain power than just going as fast as you can all the time everywhere. It's a team effort, and a quick car that wants to spit you off the road at every corner isn't going to help the navigator.
Worst car I have navigated in was actually the fastest, ironically (Corolla AE86).
Hi,
I did many Road rallies in a Fiesta 1300 ( Faberge) back in the late 70's then moved on to an Escort 1600Sport. We won a club championship on roads around Romney marshes (Kent)in the fog rain etc etc. What really won events was my navigator. The cars both had full harness belts- essential for those sudden give ways and errors (driver, and uprated pads and lines. The Handbrake is also essential. I would suggest go for a good front driver like a Golf or even a 1300 Toyota Starlet! You need experience not speed, if you have never competed in this before you will make lots of mistakes and one is going to fast for your teams experience. In fact a good way to start is a Club 12 car for novices. Heading to Epynt or Otterburn is not a good idea unless your a local!
Whatever have fun, its a great start!
I did many Road rallies in a Fiesta 1300 ( Faberge) back in the late 70's then moved on to an Escort 1600Sport. We won a club championship on roads around Romney marshes (Kent)in the fog rain etc etc. What really won events was my navigator. The cars both had full harness belts- essential for those sudden give ways and errors (driver, and uprated pads and lines. The Handbrake is also essential. I would suggest go for a good front driver like a Golf or even a 1300 Toyota Starlet! You need experience not speed, if you have never competed in this before you will make lots of mistakes and one is going to fast for your teams experience. In fact a good way to start is a Club 12 car for novices. Heading to Epynt or Otterburn is not a good idea unless your a local!
Whatever have fun, its a great start!
Thanks for all the replies help much appreciated. We were thinking along the lines of a Clio of some description and this only helps add to that.
What do you are the essential equipment for a Navigator?
Potti
Power source for above
Maps
Pencils
Roamer(S)
Stop watch?
Calculator Battery powered.
is there anything I have missed?
Cheers
loader
What do you are the essential equipment for a Navigator?
Potti
Power source for above
Maps
Pencils
Roamer(S)
Stop watch?
Calculator Battery powered.
is there anything I have missed?
Cheers
loader
you will need a map board (made of cardboard so its deformable in an accident) to rest the map on abnd some bulldog clips to hold it flat.
i have a pencil case which has things like pens, pencils, compass, eraser, highlighters etc in it
tie string around the romer and have it around you neck as its the most often used thing and you will need it ready to hand.
a small but powerful torch is really useful too, think of the mini maglite things as well as a head torch.
we have used practice headsets before (like the ones rally drivers use between stages when they take their helmets off) and although it was good fun it didnt help that much. in a noisy car though it is worth considering...
finally, i find the non fizzy lucozade sport stuff helps ward off car sickness..
i have a pencil case which has things like pens, pencils, compass, eraser, highlighters etc in it
tie string around the romer and have it around you neck as its the most often used thing and you will need it ready to hand.
a small but powerful torch is really useful too, think of the mini maglite things as well as a head torch.
we have used practice headsets before (like the ones rally drivers use between stages when they take their helmets off) and although it was good fun it didnt help that much. in a noisy car though it is worth considering...
finally, i find the non fizzy lucozade sport stuff helps ward off car sickness..
We use a fairly boggo Corsa, the one that has an accurate time-of-day clock right in the middle of the dash where both driver and navigator can see it. 
My advice on a car: Start with something standard and compact. An average fwd hatchback is ideal. Don't go changing the suspension only to find you've now got a car that crashes and bangs over the rough, transmitting shocks to navigators spine (the driver can see whats coming and so braces himself).
Beware of changing the seats, or the navigators seat anyway. I navigate more than drive nowadays, and almost every bucket seat i've sat in has been uncomfortable and restrictive, and worse than the standard seat in every way. The harnesses do enough of a job to hold me in, but agressive side bolsters restrict room for working on the maps etc.
A sump guard will be necessary.
OP, neither yourself or your navigator will be up to speed to begin with. Just accept this and concentrate on building yourselves up to being a team that can work together. In the mean time talk to other drivers/car owners and see what they're using and what is readily available on the market (both car and suspension, brakes etc) and go from there.
You could easily do your first season with a near-standard car. Indeed the best drivers and navigators can win with a standard car, but when you and your nav are up to sepeed it is more fun to then build a car that is better suited.
Another major benefit of road rallying is that provided you don't go too daft with the mods the rally car can be a daily driver too.
My advice on a car: Start with something standard and compact. An average fwd hatchback is ideal. Don't go changing the suspension only to find you've now got a car that crashes and bangs over the rough, transmitting shocks to navigators spine (the driver can see whats coming and so braces himself).
Beware of changing the seats, or the navigators seat anyway. I navigate more than drive nowadays, and almost every bucket seat i've sat in has been uncomfortable and restrictive, and worse than the standard seat in every way. The harnesses do enough of a job to hold me in, but agressive side bolsters restrict room for working on the maps etc.
A sump guard will be necessary.
OP, neither yourself or your navigator will be up to speed to begin with. Just accept this and concentrate on building yourselves up to being a team that can work together. In the mean time talk to other drivers/car owners and see what they're using and what is readily available on the market (both car and suspension, brakes etc) and go from there.
You could easily do your first season with a near-standard car. Indeed the best drivers and navigators can win with a standard car, but when you and your nav are up to sepeed it is more fun to then build a car that is better suited.
Another major benefit of road rallying is that provided you don't go too daft with the mods the rally car can be a daily driver too.
pablo said:
we have used practice headsets before (like the ones rally drivers use between stages when they take their helmets off) and although it was good fun it didnt help that much. in a noisy car though it is worth considering...
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