Car Control course before starting racing?
Discussion
Leading on from my other post regarding starting out racing (in a classic)
Bit of a silly question, but is it worth undertaking a car control course (e.g. walshy day) before doing my ARDS & getting onto the grid?
I'm thinking something that will help learn the required techniques to handle the car in sort of situations where it can get out of shape at speed or poor conditions e.g.understeer / oversteer, managing a tank-slapper etc
I would also be looking at race coaching too which I undertsand focus on lines & braking techinques but my thoughts are that I need to get some good basic car control first.
Any thoughts & also recommendations on decent courses / instructors?
Thanks
PN
Bit of a silly question, but is it worth undertaking a car control course (e.g. walshy day) before doing my ARDS & getting onto the grid?
I'm thinking something that will help learn the required techniques to handle the car in sort of situations where it can get out of shape at speed or poor conditions e.g.understeer / oversteer, managing a tank-slapper etc
I would also be looking at race coaching too which I undertsand focus on lines & braking techinques but my thoughts are that I need to get some good basic car control first.
Any thoughts & also recommendations on decent courses / instructors?
Thanks
PN
teach yourself, its not that hard to race. do some track days to acclimatise your self with your car, and seeing what it feels like as it approaches the limit.
then go race, after qually you'll realise that you're slower than cars similar to yours.
on your first grid you'll get a massive amount of red mist (same as any race start, something that makes you think you can overtake any car in front of you). once you have overtaken that car in front you will then try to overtake the car in front of that, all whilst trying to keep the car behind you, behind you.
that's pretty much all there is to it.
racing driver coaches are really useful but would be much better to use one a bit further down the line. you will learn 98% on your own then use an instructor to get that final 2%, when you need that slight advantage.
in my first season of racing I only did testing at snetterton, I learnt each track in qually and went 7 seconds a lap faster in every race than than i did in every qualifying. taught myself, although this may explain why I'm not a pro yet.
then go race, after qually you'll realise that you're slower than cars similar to yours.
on your first grid you'll get a massive amount of red mist (same as any race start, something that makes you think you can overtake any car in front of you). once you have overtaken that car in front you will then try to overtake the car in front of that, all whilst trying to keep the car behind you, behind you.
that's pretty much all there is to it.
racing driver coaches are really useful but would be much better to use one a bit further down the line. you will learn 98% on your own then use an instructor to get that final 2%, when you need that slight advantage.
in my first season of racing I only did testing at snetterton, I learnt each track in qually and went 7 seconds a lap faster in every race than than i did in every qualifying. taught myself, although this may explain why I'm not a pro yet.
Some bias here but in my first 2 seasons I had tuition at every meeting before I raced. No I do the training!
Novice drivers are the best to teach. People who've had no tuition take ages to do something differently.
Get tuition from the start. You'll learn faster and won't develop bad habits.
Car control days are very useful beforehand. I do them and have a 100% record for people passing their ARDS after doing a day (this includes lots of 14-16 year olds).
Novice drivers are the best to teach. People who've had no tuition take ages to do something differently.
Get tuition from the start. You'll learn faster and won't develop bad habits.
Car control days are very useful beforehand. I do them and have a 100% record for people passing their ARDS after doing a day (this includes lots of 14-16 year olds).
I've never raced but have done trackdays and a lot of track driving.
In my opinion you will need more than just car handling skills - you also need to be able to deal with having other cars around you at speed. You're most likely to end up in the kitty litter (or worse) because you've been distracted by other cars in close proximity.
Trackdays will certainly teach you that, so worth getting a few more under you belt if you don't yet feel completely confident. I guess you'd learn the most in a reasonably quick car.
In my opinion you will need more than just car handling skills - you also need to be able to deal with having other cars around you at speed. You're most likely to end up in the kitty litter (or worse) because you've been distracted by other cars in close proximity.
Trackdays will certainly teach you that, so worth getting a few more under you belt if you don't yet feel completely confident. I guess you'd learn the most in a reasonably quick car.
robg2 said:
I've never raced but have done trackdays and a lot of track driving.
In my opinion you will need more than just car handling skills - you also need to be able to deal with having other cars around you at speed. You're most likely to end up in the kitty litter (or worse) because you've been distracted by other cars in close proximity.
Trackdays will certainly teach you that, so worth getting a few more under you belt if you don't yet feel completely confident. I guess you'd learn the most in a reasonably quick car.
i don't agree. on a track day everyone gives each other loads of room and only passing on the left and when signaled to pass. if you want to get used to other cars around you get on a test day. you soon learn how to look in your mirrors and be aware of others when your on track with british gt cars and touring cars. In my opinion you will need more than just car handling skills - you also need to be able to deal with having other cars around you at speed. You're most likely to end up in the kitty litter (or worse) because you've been distracted by other cars in close proximity.
Trackdays will certainly teach you that, so worth getting a few more under you belt if you don't yet feel completely confident. I guess you'd learn the most in a reasonably quick car.
taffyracer said:
Never heard of anyone failing the ARDS, tuition is a good thing, but I think you need to feel comfortable in the car 1st, get some trackdays under your belt then when you feel more at 1 with the car get some quality tuition from an established instructor and improve step by step
there was that numpty on ch 4's faking it who failed..if you need to learn car control go and do a days tuition at a rally school.
wildman0609 said:
i don't agree. on a track day everyone gives each other loads of room and only passing on the left and when signaled to pass. if you want to get used to other cars around you get on a test day. you soon learn how to look in your mirrors and be aware of others when your on track with british gt cars and touring cars.
Ok, fair point!You generally need to be an MSA race license holder in a race car to go to a practise day though. And it'll cost more. But if money is no object...
Edited by robg2 on Friday 7th October 13:33
I am a rookie myself, I videod quali + the 3 races from last weekend. Watching them back and chatting to a driver who I know I can trust it is clear I am loosing an easy 3 seconds a lap down in the southern part of Silverstone (Stowe, Vale, Club, loop). In hindsight its obvious the reasons why but in one sense I guess you never know until you race against similar cars. Would an experienced coach have helped me beforehand, probably but only if it was application to that track. Being able to drive a car on the limit of grip isn't the problem, its the driving on the correct limit at the correct time and place bit.
robg2 said:
Ok, fair point!
You generally need to be an MSA race license holder in a race car to go to a practise day though.
to be honest i forgot about needing a licence for a test day. but if the long term plan is to go racing then the op will have to get a licence any way. You generally need to be an MSA race license holder in a race car to go to a practise day though.
Edited by robg2 on Friday 7th October 13:33
robg2 said:
wildman0609 said:
i don't agree. on a track day everyone gives each other loads of room and only passing on the left and when signaled to pass. if you want to get used to other cars around you get on a test day. you soon learn how to look in your mirrors and be aware of others when your on track with british gt cars and touring cars.
Ok, fair point!You generally need to be an MSA race license holder in a race car to go to a practise day though. And it'll cost more. But if money is no object...
Edited by robg2 on Friday 7th October 13:33
Erich Stahler said:
Ive been on an MSA track day at Brands that was being treated like a test day buy cocks, who I later discovered race in the Time Attack series, not the best environment for acclimatising yourself to a track as a beginner!
nothing better than being thrown in at the deep end. 
do you mean msv track day, didn't think that msa ran track days?
on a serious note, if rules are being disregarded at a track day have a word with the organisers they will always help.
I always thought time attack was for people to scared to race along side other competitors, seems strange they would be into racing on a track day.
wildman0609 said:
nothing better than being thrown in at the deep end.
do you mean msv track day, didn't think that msa ran track days?
on a serious note, if rules are being disregarded at a track day have a word with the organisers they will always help.
I always thought time attack was for people to scared to race along side other competitors, seems strange they would be into racing on a track day.
Sorry I meant MSV not MSA.do you mean msv track day, didn't think that msa ran track days?
on a serious note, if rules are being disregarded at a track day have a word with the organisers they will always help.
I always thought time attack was for people to scared to race along side other competitors, seems strange they would be into racing on a track day.
Racingben said:
Some bias here but in my first 2 seasons I had tuition at every meeting before I raced. No I do the training!
Novice drivers are the best to teach. People who've had no tuition take ages to do something differently.
Get tuition from the start. You'll learn faster and won't develop bad habits.
Car control days are very useful beforehand. I do them and have a 100% record for people passing their ARDS after doing a day (this includes lots of 14-16 year olds).
What he said.Novice drivers are the best to teach. People who've had no tuition take ages to do something differently.
Get tuition from the start. You'll learn faster and won't develop bad habits.
Car control days are very useful beforehand. I do them and have a 100% record for people passing their ARDS after doing a day (this includes lots of 14-16 year olds).
Habits are hard to break.
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