Considering Classic Racing - questions / advice

[porkanut]

Hi all

I'm keen to have a go at racing a classic ideally in something from the 60'or 70's
but not sure where to start,

Hoping there maybe some "classic" racers on here who might be able to help share their knowledge on getting onto the grid & being able to compete for at least a season


I have a shiny new go racing pack from the MSA but still have lots of questions
Here's my starter for 10
I've no mechanical or technical nouse at all, would I need a mechanic or need to do a basic course as minimum?
How much & what sort of fettling is needed over a race weekend & through out the season? Is this mainly engine related or set up of suspension?
For bodwork issues is a regular panel beater ok or should the car really be looked after by a race outfit including the oily bits too?
How many consumables do you get through in a season e.g. tyres, brakes etc
Other than the consumables such as tyres what other things need to be replaced on a regular basis?
How do you get to practice? Is this limted to the race weekend?
What is the best way to look after the car in the off season? Mine may have to be stored outside under a cover would this be an issue? Do you drive it or store it without even starting the engine?
What sort of insurance is needed?
Last & by no means least, how to you learn to park a bl00dy trailer :-)

Any other tips or advice would be welcome
Many thanks
PN

[NJH]

Bizarrely enough I used to do much more tricky stuff on my cars than I do now, I think some fettle to much personally. Can't speak for other cars but on the 944 its just checking fluids, joints, dampers for leaks, brakes the same. Tyre pressures, are all the wheel nuts torqued up etc. Its the cleaning I find the most arduous. I really don't understand quite how you can drive a car all week on the road and its easy to clean yet a car driven on track at the weekend can take 1/2 a day or more of scrubbing to clean down properly (don't ever leave your wheels caked in brake dust all week, everyone learns the hard way on that one). Same with the amount of paint chips you tend to pick up at such an alarming rate, and another thing how does so much muck manage to accumalate in the cabin of a closed car? Its things like this that seem to be almost beyond logical analysis but creates lots of mundane work. Its this more than anything that has surprised me, its 90% mundane stuff that anyone could do but it takes up far more time than I ever expected to do all the basic prep on the car.

First time I ever drove with a trailer was to pick up my race car and take it to Mallory park. TBH I think anyone with half decent spatial awareness picks it up very quickly. Reversing round corners, up drives etc. still a bit of a challenge but again I am quickly improving on that bit.

As for storing the car/trailer etc. A good friend of mine keeps both at a warehouse somewhere, its something I have been taking more seriously as whilst I have a garage like many ppl I don't have somewhere secure to keep a trailer and this sort of mucks the whole thing up.

[NJH]

Forgot to say have a look at these and come along to some of the race weekends and just chat to the competitors and organisers;
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/
http://www.hscc.org.uk/
http://www.csccgb.co.uk/
http://www.heritagegtcc.co.uk/TheSeries/

Edited by NJH on Thursday 1st September 16:53

[andy97]

porkanut said:

Hi all

I'm keen to have a go at racing a classic ideally in something from the 60'or 70's but not sure where to start,

Hoping there maybe some "classic" racers on here who might be able to help share their knowledge on getting onto the grid & being able to compete for at least a season

I have a shiny new go racing pack from the MSA but still have lots of questions
Here's my starter for 10

Well, I'm biased but I fully recommend the Classic Sports Car Club (CSCC) & suggest that you pop along to the forthcoming meeting at Silverstone on 17th & 18th of Septemeber to have a nose around, meet people & ask as many questions as you like. CSCC has several series that sound as they are right up your street & they are a very novice friendly club. PM me if you want to ask more specific questions or have a "search" on here for CSCC Threads.

Where are you based?

porkanut said:

I've no mechanical or technical nouse at all, would I need a mechanic or need to do a basic course as minimum?

I'm mechanically incompetent but can just about do some basics. I use a friend to do more major work & to help me at tracks but I do pay him. To be honest there are lots of people around who will help out for a small fee & befriending a student on a motor sport engineering course may be a good place to start! At the track you will also find that plenty of people in the club will help you out if you are stuck.

porkanut said:

How much & what sort of fettling is needed over a race weekend & through out the season? Is this mainly engine related or set up of suspension?

Depends on the car & the series. To be honest I do very little & certainly don't change set up & things like that. Maybe I should, but you can race far more simply than you imagine & enjoy it.

porkanut said:

For bodwork issues is a regular panel beater ok or should the car really be looked after by a race outfit including the oily bits too?

Hopefully you won't need a regular panel beater! Conatct can happen but should be rare. Again, there are plenty of people around who can help out.

porkanut said:

How many consumables do you get through in a season e.g. tyres, brakes etc
Other than the consumables such as tyres what other things need to be replaced on a regular basis?

Again, depends on the car & the series. In CSCC we race on List 1B tyres & I reckon that aset of Yoko A048s will last 4 x 40 min races (& 4 x 30 min practices) on my 1000Kg saloon. Brakes pads are probably the same, Discs will probably last a couple of seasons.

porkanut said:

How do you get to practice? Is this limted to the race weekend?

Well, you can do track days; most circuits will offer test days prior to events and Mallory Park has wednesday morning test sessions every week for about £110. It all starts to add up though & I'd guess that most peole don't "test" at club level. Once you get your car, its probably a good idea to do a few test/ track days in it, though. And I'd recommend getting a days instructioin with a decent instructor, too.

porkanut said:

What is the best way to look after the car in the off season? Mine may have to be stored outside under a cover would this be an issue? Do you drive it or store it without even starting the engine?

Not ideal to store outside. I rent garage space off a local farmer. Good idea to start it up every few weeks etc.

porkanut said:

What sort of insurance is needed?

Most people don't have race car insurance at this level.

porkanut said:

Last & by no means least, how to you learn to park a bl00dy trailer :-)

Any other tips or advice would be welcome
Many thanks
PN

[MMC Andy]

porkanut said:

What sort of insurance is needed?

Most people don't have race car insurance at this level.


And in one line you ruin my business!

Porkanut: I race with the CSCC with Andy, if you want any further insurance advice, drop me a PM.

Good luck with your venture!

[porkanut]

thanks all really helpful

Andy97 I'm based in the east midlands. Would love to come to Silverstone, but unlikely as I will be travelling back from holiday - will try to convince the present mrs PN to make a detour.

I went to a HSCC race at Cadwell earlier in the year with a freind of a freind who races a 60's formula ford. Unfortunately didnt get much chance to chat to competitors in the tin tops. The chap I went with only does 2-3 races a year due to job & other commitments. He has a check by a race mechanic changes usually only plugs, oil etc, so probably not the best peson to get a yardstick from. Has not rebuilt his engine in at least 2 years. Always near the back of the grid but still has a great day out & hopes he never has to sell his car

Thanks again & you are all making this sound way too accessible
PN

[andy rob]

classic touring cars are @ cadwell this saturday the 3rd, id suggest you visit a few of the different classic clubs to get the general feel for whats going on & then decide which championships for you.

[andy97]

porkanut said:

thanks all really helpful

Andy97 I'm based in the east midlands. Would love to come to Silverstone, but unlikely as I will be travelling back from holiday - will try to convince the present mrs PN to make a detour.

Where in the East Midlands? I live in Castle Donington so you are welcome to meet up for a chat & to have a look at my car etc.

[skeggysteve]

OP - I live about 20 minutes away from Cadwell so if you come over give me a shout and I'll be happy to talk you through this racing lark.

I don't drive but do the spannering on a Clio in the NSSCC and previously have done quite a lot of other stuff!

If anyone has a spare ticket for this Saturday I'd be happy to come along and help out

[andy rob]

Steve, no need to help out, but have spare tickets, phone me on 07773767481 (not sure on signal @ cadwell ??) ill be there tomorrow afternoon, racing the falcon in the classic thunder the the fiesta in the 40 min allcomers

[andy97]

MMC Andy said:

porkanut said:

What sort of insurance is needed?

Most people don't have race car insurance at this level.


And in one line you ruin my business!

Porkanut: I race with the CSCC with Andy, if you want any further insurance advice, drop me a PM.

Good luck with your venture!

Oops, sorry, mate!

[porkanut]

andy & skeggysteve many thanks for the invite to catch up at Cadwell, sadly too short notice for me, real shame because I love Cadwell too. Andy on the very remote off chance I can change my plans I'm sure I'll be able to find you in the paddock

Andy97 - that would be great if I could come & take a nosey at you car & have chingwag about racing. I'm about an hour away from donny on the notts/lincs border, I'll drop you a PM to sort out a mutally convient time to catch up over a pint if thats's ok?

all the best
John (porkanut)

[andy97]

porkanut said:

Andy97 - that would be great if I could come & take a nosey at you car & have chingwag about racing. I'm about an hour away from donny on the notts/lincs border, I'll drop you a PM to sort out a mutally convient time to catch up over a pint if thats's ok?

all the best
John (porkanut)

You're welcome.

[Al Weyman]

If like me you (a) dont necessarily want to do 40 minute races or (b) would like to race in championships/series that have a little more stricter regulations to level the playing field but do allow upgrading of brakes etc (unlike RoadSports) I recommend the Classic Touring Car Racing Club.

All details on the club website here http://www.csccgb.co.uk/index.html

[Spit50]

Hi Porkanut, I race a 1968 Triumph Spitfire in the CSSC Swinging 60s series and probably operate at the lower end of the budget spectrum but am not slow and class win occasionly. Heres a few answers to your questions:

"I've no mechanical or technical nouse at all, would I need a mechanic or need to do a basic course as minimum?"

I had very little knowledge when I started but I did have a Haynes manual. I now do virtually all my own work and now build my own engines. 1960's cars are pretty simple so easy to pick up as you go along. Just copy the fastest car of your type in the series you choose

"How much & what sort of fettling is needed over a race weekend & through out the season? Is this mainly engine related or set up of suspension?"

Very little on race weekend, it should all be done before you get there. You might want to change trye pressures or soften the dampers if its wet but I got to a stage where I like how the car handles and never change it now.
Between races you'll be fixing/fettleing/improving/cleaning and tightening bolts endlessly. Do not underestimate how much work/time it takes to keep an old car racing.

"For bodwork issues is a regular panel beater ok or should the car really be looked after by a race outfit including the oily bits too?"

Mine is all GRP but there is little to no contact in CSSC racing so not realy a consideration. Is best to race a tidy car though, so it should be kept looking good.

"How many consumables do you get through in a season e.g. tyres, brakes etc."

On my 600kg car a set of medium yoko 13" tyres will last an 8 race season though are a bit thin in the wet by the end so I tend to have a new set ready if it rains (which lasts the next season and so on). Brake pads 2 seasons, lots of oil changes, stacks of fuel.

"Other than the consumables such as tyres what other things need to be replaced on a regular basis? "

Belts every 5 years, perhaps seat too if FIA, Helmets 10 years? overalls similar (Don't quote me on that). Fire extinguishers need servicing.

"How do you get to practice? Is this limted to the race weekend?"

For me its the morning qualifying session before the race only. I might do a monrning at Llandow to run-in an engine but thats it for me. If money allows I might slip in a trackday for fun (though once you are racing these seem very tame)

"What is the best way to look after the car in the off season? Mine may have to be stored outside under a cover would this be an issue? Do you drive it or store it without even starting the engine?"

Find a garage/barn/warehouse if possible, outside storage is no fun for the car (especially if you remove all those heavyweight seals ) and serious restricts the time you can spend fixing and tweaking it.

"What sort of insurance is needed? "

I don't but many do.

"Last & by no means least, how to you learn to park a bl00dy trailer :-)"

You'll learn, unhitching and pushing it backwards gets a bind after a while.

Cheers
Andy

[davegt6]

Hi Porkanut,

Good advice from Spit50 and he's being very modest about his abilities and achievements with a couple of championships from a low budget home prepared car and he is quick! A lot is down to time served - stick at it and it gets more rewarding.

You need to set your expectations at the outset and aim for an enjoyable time on the track. Best way to learn is to start at the back, gain experience and take it from there. Expenses will depend on the amount of track time and how competitive you want to be. Keep out of trouble and the running costs are much lower! You will learn the mechanical side as you go along and from others in the paddock. Having your car prepared and run for you is a very expensive way to go racing and to be honest I've seen a lot of "professionally" prepared cars retired before the flag.

The CSCC is a good friendly club and there is a huge range of eligible cars for the various series so get to some meetings and talk to the guys and gals.

Good luck

[Kickstart]

If you have not done much/any racing before I would not spend a fortune at the outset as you may simply not enjoy it.

Like many of the posters above I am also a fan of the CSCC and run in swinging sixties, however this is not the only club by any means and you would be well advised to go to a few meetings to make your own mind up.

When it comes to historic cars much depends on budget and where you want to race. If you want to do things like the Spa 6 hours, Oldtimer Gp at the ring etc then you will need a HTP pre 66 car and probably the best value for money would be an MGB which are about £20k - £25k and then on up to major lottery win money.

The one pleasant thing about historic race cars is that they rarely depreciate unlike modern racing cars although you will spend a fair bit running/improving them. Personally I would decide what events you want to do and then try to marry that up to a car than will be eligible and note converting a road car is normally more expensive than starting with a race car.

Have fun

[dmulally]

I orginally got into motorsport as I wanted to go wheel to wheel with the best that I could go up against. I even somehow fluked a win in my very first race! But as I got into it more I found that I didnt have that killer instinct and have too much mechanical sympathy to race.

I do enjoy track days and regularity though and want to get into hillclimbing a bit more. I spend all my time building garage art though, sadly. Have a couple of vintage specials on the boiler now.

My advice would be to do as others have suggested and join a club. When it comes to purchasing a car, I would turn up to a track day and start asking around if anybody knows anyone selling. I have seen punters have a crap day at the office and almost give the car away and somebody actually trailers it away after handing over some cash. I have also heard stories of a handshake on the day and then the car being stripped of the good bits later on in the garage to be swapped with the junk spares. That may just be rumours or sour grapes though.

If I wanted to get into historic racing I would buy something slow and reliable. Being at the back of the pack helps with your driving as you are mostly alone and disolves some of the pink mist when you know you dont have a chance anyway. I had a ball in my Rover P5B luxobarge.

[Graham]

We've been running 4 guys in classics this year in an MGA and a Sebring sprite, in a mix of CSCC classic K and swinging 60's together with some equipe gts, HRDC and MGoc races, and they've had great fun.

The MGA has proved very reliable this year ( doing upto 4 races a day!), if not the quickest thing as its a full FIA logbooked appendix K car. If not running it in appendix K stuff some modern list 1B rubber and a few reversable tweeks to the motor it would be quite competitive.

The guys are selling it now at the end of the season as they are looking to have 2 new identical cars built ( possibly A40's or Anglias) So if your after something a little different and with FIA papers They are going to put it on the PH classifieds shortly should be around the 20k mark that they paid for it at the autosport auction in January, Although it does now have a rebuilt engine to make it run better.

I can put you in touch with them if you'd like a chat, about either the car or the championships they tried.

G

[porkanut]

thanks for further sound advice guys, guess I'm thinking along the right lines as ideally looking at simple to maintain like a Triumph, mini or 60's 70's Ford & appreciate it will probably take a couple of seasons to work out if I'm cut out for it & can be reasonably competitive as I want to enjoy it & not be a liability to the rest of the grid by being miles of the pace.

The CSCC very much on my radar as this appears to be more affordable than HSCC.

Graham thanks for the offer but £20k is out of my budget & I'm not ready to jump in just yet, being realistic I think think being on grid at some point in 2013 is achievbale if plans fall into place

all the best PN