Total newcomer
Discussion
Hi I've been wanting to get into either rally or racing for years and I finally think it's starting to look like it's possible money wise.
I'm just wonder where is the best place to start, I've been thinking of either the MR2 championship or the CSCC either tin tops or future classics. I would obv like to be in something a bit competative but not expecting to finish anywhere high for a few years.
I'm just wondering if it's possible on a £10K budget all in, that includes everything from racecar and setup to trailer and car to tow it with.
I figured I could get an old volvo to tow for under £2k, a trailer for under £1k, that leaves £7k for race car and prep, obv I would like to keep costs as low as possible and looking at the CSCC websire there is very little information about the type of car to use. I do have 1989 MR2 tbar but wouldnt like to use this as the glass roof with be unsafe and heavy but I wouldn't mind a second MR2.
Any ideas and advice would be great.
I also would have no proplem setting up the car myself if there was a car with all parts easily available. Also is it possible to run cars in the CSCC races with engine swaps, IE something that was never intended for the car?
Thanks
Liam
I'm just wonder where is the best place to start, I've been thinking of either the MR2 championship or the CSCC either tin tops or future classics. I would obv like to be in something a bit competative but not expecting to finish anywhere high for a few years.
I'm just wondering if it's possible on a £10K budget all in, that includes everything from racecar and setup to trailer and car to tow it with.
I figured I could get an old volvo to tow for under £2k, a trailer for under £1k, that leaves £7k for race car and prep, obv I would like to keep costs as low as possible and looking at the CSCC websire there is very little information about the type of car to use. I do have 1989 MR2 tbar but wouldnt like to use this as the glass roof with be unsafe and heavy but I wouldn't mind a second MR2.
Any ideas and advice would be great.
I also would have no proplem setting up the car myself if there was a car with all parts easily available. Also is it possible to run cars in the CSCC races with engine swaps, IE something that was never intended for the car?
Thanks
Liam
Something like this would be a cost effective CSCC Tintops car
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2774233.htm
No engine swaps are not alowed in tintops.
Dont forget in your budget you will need to alow for licence and safety gear (about £1k all in)
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2774233.htm
No engine swaps are not alowed in tintops.
Dont forget in your budget you will need to alow for licence and safety gear (about £1k all in)
Edited by Burp on Sunday 15th May 19:50
I would suggest budgeting more for a trailer.
Get a good one from a good manufacturer - Brian James etc.
It will not lose value and it will tow better etc.
A cheap trailer will lose money and will not tow well!
Car wise I say go for the best prepared one in your budget, not the quickest or the one withthe best paint/sticker job. With race cars preparation is the key.
Like you say your unlikely to be winning races so buy a good car and trailer then if you find racings not for you or you run out of money you can get the most back on selling them on.
Get a good one from a good manufacturer - Brian James etc.
It will not lose value and it will tow better etc.
A cheap trailer will lose money and will not tow well!
Car wise I say go for the best prepared one in your budget, not the quickest or the one withthe best paint/sticker job. With race cars preparation is the key.
Like you say your unlikely to be winning races so buy a good car and trailer then if you find racings not for you or you run out of money you can get the most back on selling them on.
Its true a good trailer dosnt lose money and if you've got somewhere to keep a trailer out of the eyes and reaches of dirty filthy robbing 
scummers then get one otherwise see if there is anywhere local to you that hires them. saves a lot of hassle and is MUCH heaper than you'd imagine.
Im midlands based and use a company called Barwell trailer hire, Carl has a load of trailers in from little ones to the full on BJ Shuttle types.
I cant commit to a full season of the CSCC's yet so hiring has suited me down to the ground.
scummers then get one otherwise see if there is anywhere local to you that hires them. saves a lot of hassle and is MUCH heaper than you'd imagine.Im midlands based and use a company called Barwell trailer hire, Carl has a load of trailers in from little ones to the full on BJ Shuttle types.
I cant commit to a full season of the CSCC's yet so hiring has suited me down to the ground.
Don't forget you need to budget for tyres, repairs, entry fees, accommodation etc for yourself and anyone else that is helping you
http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/ is a rookie series and allows for sharing the car which can help to cut costs.
http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/ is a rookie series and allows for sharing the car which can help to cut costs.
I am and was in your situation at the start of the season, yet to write a full budget up but I wpould say two rounds gone of CSCC Tin Tops, I am prob in for 10k already. Having brought Race car and Trailer for 6, tow car for 1k, 1k on helmet and Hans, 500 on suit and bits and pieces, spares, and then each race is £345 plus I have done a test day before each event as you want to get to know the car, so another £145, then fuel for 30 min quali, 40 min race and 1.5 hrs testing, maybe 100 ltr SUL, tow car diesel another 100 ltr easy, Have used a new set of R888's in two rounds, so thats another 350 I need before the next round.
If you go for a cheaper car to start with that will help with having the rest of your money left over, and now I am over the initial expense it 'should' calm down.
Right now I'm off to change the knocking CV joints and worn out tyres from the weekend
If you go for a cheaper car to start with that will help with having the rest of your money left over, and now I am over the initial expense it 'should' calm down.
Right now I'm off to change the knocking CV joints and worn out tyres from the weekend
vauxh al said:
Have used a new set of R888's in two rounds, so thats another 350 I need...
Alex, I'd suggest that 1) you find yourself a cheaper tyre supplier - that's dear, and 2) no way should you have burned through a set of R888s in two rounds... I normally get at least a season out of a set (swapping F/R once) on a FWD car!Worth a look at driving style and/or car setup, any pics of the tyres?
had a look at the trackday trophy but i think its pretty serious stuff. its essentially designed for cars that have been modified for trackday use hence the calss structure and given that most peopel track some fairly rapid cars already, i think it will be competitive. that said, there is nothing like going down and having a look at a race and chatting to some drivers.
dont discount a road legal race car for the first season, it does away with things like a tow car and trailer, which unless you already have, or can store/borrow easily, are a giant pain in the arse! yes, you may crash but then again you might not if you know you have to drive it home and there is no point thinking "i wont be racing at ten tenths if its a road car" because you are a novice.
a good idea is to look at the tsl timing website and see what cars are popular in the championships people have mentioned. http://www.tsl-timing.com/msvr/2011/111151.pdf
keep an eye on the motorsport forums form september onwards when people are looking to move cars on and prepare for 2012.... bargains to be had!....
dont discount a road legal race car for the first season, it does away with things like a tow car and trailer, which unless you already have, or can store/borrow easily, are a giant pain in the arse! yes, you may crash but then again you might not if you know you have to drive it home and there is no point thinking "i wont be racing at ten tenths if its a road car" because you are a novice.
a good idea is to look at the tsl timing website and see what cars are popular in the championships people have mentioned. http://www.tsl-timing.com/msvr/2011/111151.pdf
keep an eye on the motorsport forums form september onwards when people are looking to move cars on and prepare for 2012.... bargains to be had!....
Liam, have a look at the series we race in, the Northern Saloon and Sportscar Championship - http://www.darlington-motor-club.org.uk/series_hom...
I see you're in Hartlepool, so if costs are an issue it might be a good solution. The series is centred around Croft, with trips to other northern circuits (this year it's Oulton, Knockhill and Cadwell) and is always well subscribed (over subscribed this year) so grids are full and there's always someone to race regardless of your ability.
The series organiser lives in Seaton Carew and (most of the time) is friendly, give her a call. Alternatively there are a few NSSCC and ex NSSCC people on here who'll be able to answer your questions, but I'd say £10k for your first season is easily do-able if you take your time looking for the right car.
Vaux-al - check your geometry, we got through 888s at a rate of knots last year because we used the settings from the Clio Cup series - but they're on slicks and run much more camber than we need to, once we did a bit of testing and mucked about with geometry, tyre wear dropped off dramatically.
I see you're in Hartlepool, so if costs are an issue it might be a good solution. The series is centred around Croft, with trips to other northern circuits (this year it's Oulton, Knockhill and Cadwell) and is always well subscribed (over subscribed this year) so grids are full and there's always someone to race regardless of your ability.
The series organiser lives in Seaton Carew and (most of the time) is friendly, give her a call. Alternatively there are a few NSSCC and ex NSSCC people on here who'll be able to answer your questions, but I'd say £10k for your first season is easily do-able if you take your time looking for the right car.
Vaux-al - check your geometry, we got through 888s at a rate of knots last year because we used the settings from the Clio Cup series - but they're on slicks and run much more camber than we need to, once we did a bit of testing and mucked about with geometry, tyre wear dropped off dramatically.
Liam,
A good starting point is the BRSCC Porsche Championship which runs a class for Porsche 924s, and is really good for newcomers.
http://porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/how-much-will-it...
A really friendly bunch who encourage and help new drivers, and the costs fit your budget. I was in exactly the same position as you and found it was a brilliant way into racing. Plenty of 924s available, and you can run in other series too including Future Classics. Whatever you do, buy a race prepared car - it is always going to be cheaper than converting a road car.
Contact Jayson Flegg (see the website) and he'll tell you all about it - but he is VERY persuasive!
Agree with all the comments on the trailer, and as for a road car any old estate or 4 x 4(you'll need the space) with a 1500Kg minimum towing capacity should do the trick. An old Volvo or similar.
Whatever route into racing you choose make sure you do something. It really is the best fun you can have with your clothes on!
John B
A good starting point is the BRSCC Porsche Championship which runs a class for Porsche 924s, and is really good for newcomers.
http://porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/how-much-will-it...
A really friendly bunch who encourage and help new drivers, and the costs fit your budget. I was in exactly the same position as you and found it was a brilliant way into racing. Plenty of 924s available, and you can run in other series too including Future Classics. Whatever you do, buy a race prepared car - it is always going to be cheaper than converting a road car.
Contact Jayson Flegg (see the website) and he'll tell you all about it - but he is VERY persuasive!
Agree with all the comments on the trailer, and as for a road car any old estate or 4 x 4(you'll need the space) with a 1500Kg minimum towing capacity should do the trick. An old Volvo or similar.
Whatever route into racing you choose make sure you do something. It really is the best fun you can have with your clothes on!
John B
Hi Liam,
The best place to start for the MR2 Championship is on the forum here:
http://mr2championship.freeforums.org/
There's lot of discussion about running costs on there and a very good article (even if I do say so myself) on selecting the right MR2 for racing. MR2 Championship racing is very popular at the moment which means our races are spilling over onto two grids in a heats and finals configuration. This means that some lucky racers are ending up with twice as many races for their entry fee. Speaking of which, All of our race meetings are double headers (with one exception, which is a single race but twice as long) and entry fees are either £220 or £295 depending upon the circuit.
Typically you'll use two to three sets of Toyo R888 tyres a year, assuming you do all of the race meetings and test ahead of each one. The cars are very well balanced in terms of the ratio between grip, power and handling. Tyres are controlled, must be purchased from the race organiser and are discounted for competitors.
There are practically no secondhand cars available at the moment, but your budget would enable you to purchase a fresh build mk2 capable of a podium finish. We run a number of hire cars which we're always willing to sell and replace so if you're interested in buying a car at the moment please give me a call. We replaced all of our hire cars this year so they've only seen minimal testing and one race so far!
It's worth noting that MR2 Championship cars are also eligible to run in the 750MC MR2 Super GT series, which races on the Saturday before Sunday's Championship race. This means that you can use the same car in two different race series at the same meeting, doubling up your racing without the associated logistics costs. The MR2 Super GT series also offers a progression from the Championship and has been designed to allow you to re-use and upgrade your existing car to a higher specification. Dropping in the Japanese MR2 turbo engine, or one of the V6 lumps is the most common. MR2 Championship cars (and Super GT depending on how far you modify them) can also be raced in the CSCC Future Classics series and the Nippon Challenge giving you a good selection of potential races.
It's entirely possible for you to keep your car road legal and drive it to and from race meetings - I did this for my first season and a half until I got a trailer. We tend to keep our cars road legal anyway as it means you can road test them between races. We also offer storage, logistic and support solutions that may be of interest to you.
Feel free to drop me a line on 01926 810104 if you need any more information.
Cheers,
Patrick Mortell
The best place to start for the MR2 Championship is on the forum here:
http://mr2championship.freeforums.org/
There's lot of discussion about running costs on there and a very good article (even if I do say so myself) on selecting the right MR2 for racing. MR2 Championship racing is very popular at the moment which means our races are spilling over onto two grids in a heats and finals configuration. This means that some lucky racers are ending up with twice as many races for their entry fee. Speaking of which, All of our race meetings are double headers (with one exception, which is a single race but twice as long) and entry fees are either £220 or £295 depending upon the circuit.
Typically you'll use two to three sets of Toyo R888 tyres a year, assuming you do all of the race meetings and test ahead of each one. The cars are very well balanced in terms of the ratio between grip, power and handling. Tyres are controlled, must be purchased from the race organiser and are discounted for competitors.
There are practically no secondhand cars available at the moment, but your budget would enable you to purchase a fresh build mk2 capable of a podium finish. We run a number of hire cars which we're always willing to sell and replace so if you're interested in buying a car at the moment please give me a call. We replaced all of our hire cars this year so they've only seen minimal testing and one race so far!
It's worth noting that MR2 Championship cars are also eligible to run in the 750MC MR2 Super GT series, which races on the Saturday before Sunday's Championship race. This means that you can use the same car in two different race series at the same meeting, doubling up your racing without the associated logistics costs. The MR2 Super GT series also offers a progression from the Championship and has been designed to allow you to re-use and upgrade your existing car to a higher specification. Dropping in the Japanese MR2 turbo engine, or one of the V6 lumps is the most common. MR2 Championship cars (and Super GT depending on how far you modify them) can also be raced in the CSCC Future Classics series and the Nippon Challenge giving you a good selection of potential races.
It's entirely possible for you to keep your car road legal and drive it to and from race meetings - I did this for my first season and a half until I got a trailer. We tend to keep our cars road legal anyway as it means you can road test them between races. We also offer storage, logistic and support solutions that may be of interest to you.
Feel free to drop me a line on 01926 810104 if you need any more information.
Cheers,
Patrick Mortell
Edited by RogueMotorsport on Tuesday 17th May 10:46
Second supporter here for the BRSCC Porsche Championship, in the Porsche 924s. Got my Race Licence in April, bought car and all gear (see below), and would have raced at the weekend if I hadn't broken my leg playing football....drat.
It's amazing how the costs mount up, but two words of advice. There aren't many good, sub <1k trailers around - many of them are unsafe, knock-off or just unsuitable - I looked at so many I got irritated and bought a new one from PRG. £2750 but thats for a tilt bed with jerry can box, spare wheel etc etc - great quality, and cheaper than Brian James.
Second - you can't get a full set of race kit for £1k. Forget that. You want a decent helmet, and a Hans Device - which is £700 - £800 already, even if you go for the cheaper Hans. Use Demon tweeks and they'll get you a good discount. I paid £2,000 for my race kit - OMP helmet, suit, boots, two tops and two long johns, gloves, socks and the HANS (but I went for the pro one - much lighter, but twice the dough - I dont want to save £300 and be worrying about my head and neck!).
All in, including my licence costs, the car, trailer, race kit, championship fee and £1400 of car prep I am in for £10,700. You could do it cheaper than £10k but you;d be surprised how little things add up - the Timing transponder was £350, for example. I also bought a racing jack and impact wrench for the wheels.
Worth doing though - can't wait to enjoy a race or three once my leg mends...
It's amazing how the costs mount up, but two words of advice. There aren't many good, sub <1k trailers around - many of them are unsafe, knock-off or just unsuitable - I looked at so many I got irritated and bought a new one from PRG. £2750 but thats for a tilt bed with jerry can box, spare wheel etc etc - great quality, and cheaper than Brian James.
Second - you can't get a full set of race kit for £1k. Forget that. You want a decent helmet, and a Hans Device - which is £700 - £800 already, even if you go for the cheaper Hans. Use Demon tweeks and they'll get you a good discount. I paid £2,000 for my race kit - OMP helmet, suit, boots, two tops and two long johns, gloves, socks and the HANS (but I went for the pro one - much lighter, but twice the dough - I dont want to save £300 and be worrying about my head and neck!).
All in, including my licence costs, the car, trailer, race kit, championship fee and £1400 of car prep I am in for £10,700. You could do it cheaper than £10k but you;d be surprised how little things add up - the Timing transponder was £350, for example. I also bought a racing jack and impact wrench for the wheels.
Worth doing though - can't wait to enjoy a race or three once my leg mends...
Frodo : I am getting Tyres at Rafmsa rate so actually £300 per set, no cheaper around I promise. As for wear ask the guys at lydden or Abbingdon today, they are slicks now. Have change the corner weight today, camber is 2.5 deg and running neutral toe. Maybe the pressures were high to start at brands ( only 24 psi) but even after 1.5 hrs qualifying the front left was scrubbing. Hoping with the next set now it's corner weighted more and I have started to cure the understeer with damper rates the wear levels will drop right off. Otherwise I'm done for!
Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
bqf said:
Second supporter here for the BRSCC Porsche Championship, in the Porsche 924s. Got my Race Licence in April, bought car and all gear (see below), and would have raced at the weekend if I hadn't broken my leg playing football....drat.
It's amazing how the costs mount up, but two words of advice. There aren't many good, sub <1k trailers around - many of them are unsafe, knock-off or just unsuitable - I looked at so many I got irritated and bought a new one from PRG. £2750 but thats for a tilt bed with jerry can box, spare wheel etc etc - great quality, and cheaper than Brian James.
Second - you can't get a full set of race kit for £1k. Forget that. You want a decent helmet, and a Hans Device - which is £700 - £800 already, even if you go for the cheaper Hans. Use Demon tweeks and they'll get you a good discount. I paid £2,000 for my race kit - OMP helmet, suit, boots, two tops and two long johns, gloves, socks and the HANS (but I went for the pro one - much lighter, but twice the dough - I dont want to save £300 and be worrying about my head and neck!).
All in, including my licence costs, the car, trailer, race kit, championship fee and £1400 of car prep I am in for £10,700. You could do it cheaper than £10k but you;d be surprised how little things add up - the Timing transponder was £350, for example. I also bought a racing jack and impact wrench for the wheels.
Worth doing though - can't wait to enjoy a race or three once my leg mends...
OP, this man talks sense - especially with the safety gear.It's amazing how the costs mount up, but two words of advice. There aren't many good, sub <1k trailers around - many of them are unsafe, knock-off or just unsuitable - I looked at so many I got irritated and bought a new one from PRG. £2750 but thats for a tilt bed with jerry can box, spare wheel etc etc - great quality, and cheaper than Brian James.
Second - you can't get a full set of race kit for £1k. Forget that. You want a decent helmet, and a Hans Device - which is £700 - £800 already, even if you go for the cheaper Hans. Use Demon tweeks and they'll get you a good discount. I paid £2,000 for my race kit - OMP helmet, suit, boots, two tops and two long johns, gloves, socks and the HANS (but I went for the pro one - much lighter, but twice the dough - I dont want to save £300 and be worrying about my head and neck!).
All in, including my licence costs, the car, trailer, race kit, championship fee and £1400 of car prep I am in for £10,700. You could do it cheaper than £10k but you;d be surprised how little things add up - the Timing transponder was £350, for example. I also bought a racing jack and impact wrench for the wheels.
Worth doing though - can't wait to enjoy a race or three once my leg mends...
If you are questioning the cost of buying good gear have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL6Vsh1RsQU
volks al said:
Frodo : I am getting Tyres at Rafmsa rate so actually £300 per set, no cheaper around I promise. As for wear ask the guys at lydden or Abbingdon today, they are slicks now. Have change the corner weight today, camber is 2.5 deg and running neutral toe. Maybe the pressures were high to start at brands ( only 24 psi) but even after 1.5 hrs qualifying the front left was scrubbing. Hoping with the next set now it's corner weighted more and I have started to cure the understeer with damper rates the wear levels will drop right off. Otherwise I'm done for!
Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
i was watching you a Lydden. Waaaaay tooo much commitment into Paddock bend, too much speed, wrong line and turning in too late. You have to compensate for the speed. That was what was killing your left front tyre. Back to driving school..... Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
My gearbox is fixed now tho. Bring on Donny CSCC TT.
Jerry Can said:
volks al said:
Frodo : I am getting Tyres at Rafmsa rate so actually £300 per set, no cheaper around I promise. As for wear ask the guys at lydden or Abbingdon today, they are slicks now. Have change the corner weight today, camber is 2.5 deg and running neutral toe. Maybe the pressures were high to start at brands ( only 24 psi) but even after 1.5 hrs qualifying the front left was scrubbing. Hoping with the next set now it's corner weighted more and I have started to cure the understeer with damper rates the wear levels will drop right off. Otherwise I'm done for!
Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
i was watching you a Lydden. Waaaaay tooo much commitment into Paddock bend, too much speed, wrong line and turning in too late. You have to compensate for the speed. That was what was killing your left front tyre. Back to driving school..... Damm annoying and need to peg the problem as it's too costly not too.
My gearbox is fixed now tho. Bring on Donny CSCC TT.
Liam, I'm very much an advocate of the CSCC series and i think its certainly possible to buy a very decent car for £7K or less. I started out in Tin Tops with a Fiat Uno that cost me £2K which was a far better car than many believed! I have run an Alfa 33 which cost me £600 (very scruffy but excellent handling) & now run a Toyota that didn't cost that much to buy either. There are plenty of Rover 216GTis, Pug 205s, Golf GTis, BMWs, MR2s, MX5s, Porsche 924s etc etc which can all be had for £5K or less and which are eligible for either Tin Tops or Future Classics (& in some cases, both).
I also know of a Rover Tomcat available for £3K (an FC car)& an ex Vauxhall/ Opel Vectra V6 Challenge car (ideal for Deutsche Marque if badged as an Opel) that's available for £4700. (The Vectra Challenge car was built by MSD & was about £70K worth of touring car shell when new!).
The CSCC series are great value for money with excellent track time. The driving standards are good & the paddock atmosphere & organisation is excellent. We are at Donington Park next on the w/e of 28/29 May - why not pop along & have a look round, ask questions & introduce yourself to some of us. Tin Tops & FC are racing on the saturday, I think & I'll be in the white Toyota #48.
I also know of a Rover Tomcat available for £3K (an FC car)& an ex Vauxhall/ Opel Vectra V6 Challenge car (ideal for Deutsche Marque if badged as an Opel) that's available for £4700. (The Vectra Challenge car was built by MSD & was about £70K worth of touring car shell when new!).
The CSCC series are great value for money with excellent track time. The driving standards are good & the paddock atmosphere & organisation is excellent. We are at Donington Park next on the w/e of 28/29 May - why not pop along & have a look round, ask questions & introduce yourself to some of us. Tin Tops & FC are racing on the saturday, I think & I'll be in the white Toyota #48.
my swift gti is for sale,currently running in castle combe saloon car championship
had 1 win and 3 2nd places with it at Combe doing lap times of 1m21.4
also did 1 round of tin tops at snetterton last year,didnt finish race due to my co-driver blowing original engine apart but got fastest lap in the 1st race
ready to go right now
advert should be on here now but if not heres a fleabay link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
had 1 win and 3 2nd places with it at Combe doing lap times of 1m21.4
also did 1 round of tin tops at snetterton last year,didnt finish race due to my co-driver blowing original engine apart but got fastest lap in the 1st race
ready to go right now
advert should be on here now but if not heres a fleabay link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
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