Where Have All The Racing Cars Gone?
Discussion
The merit is that lots of people enjoy driving in CSCC races and the two driver option only adds to the appeal .Lots enjoy watching too - it's a breath of fresh air to watch such a lovely diversity of cars on track , with a matching soundtrack. Such a contrast to the plethora of spec formulae which has robbed modern racing of any variety.
CKY said:
andy97 said:
That would have been the Classic Sports Car Club (CSCC).
Something like 450 cars entered over the who,e weekend with separate races for cars from the 60s (the one you referenced - “Swinging Sixties”; 70s & 80s (Future Classics), 90s (Modern Classics); Post 2000 era (New Millenium) with additional separate races for <2 litre tin tops, turbo tin tops, cars on slick tyres, Locaterfield type cars, one make races for BMWs and MGs, who have joined the club this year after their organising clubs decided to reduce their motorsport involvement.
Within each race there are separate classes based on capacity so the 26R are not really racing in the same class as the Mk2 Jags etc.
The appeal is that it’s a well run club with very big grids, 40 min races with a pit stop for 1 or 2 drivers (so costs can be shared), good driving standards and good value for money.
I watched the aforementioned Swinging Sixties race, and have to say I was left wondering the merit; racing is obviously good fun, however turning up to such a race with a 'semi lightweight' E Type or an Elan 26R smacks a bit of 'pot hunting' to me. The cars were in a completely different league to most other things on the circuit, and in post-race interviews at least one of the drivers alluded to slower cars impeding their race; granted there would be an element of this in a 60s touring car or gran touring car race anyway, but competing with cars of a similar class/performance would eliminate that, and prevent the 2 car battle there was for the lead with various other small battles going on throughout the field. I did find it amusing however watching the Lotus Cortinas, climbing all over the back of the Lotus Elans which is something that you don't see every day. Something like 450 cars entered over the who,e weekend with separate races for cars from the 60s (the one you referenced - “Swinging Sixties”; 70s & 80s (Future Classics), 90s (Modern Classics); Post 2000 era (New Millenium) with additional separate races for <2 litre tin tops, turbo tin tops, cars on slick tyres, Locaterfield type cars, one make races for BMWs and MGs, who have joined the club this year after their organising clubs decided to reduce their motorsport involvement.
Within each race there are separate classes based on capacity so the 26R are not really racing in the same class as the Mk2 Jags etc.
The appeal is that it’s a well run club with very big grids, 40 min races with a pit stop for 1 or 2 drivers (so costs can be shared), good driving standards and good value for money.
I don't particularly enjoy these races where there's a plethora of different types of car entered, and to have a separate race going on for only Jaguar Mk1/2 saloons was weird - but driving standards on the whole seemed clean and the cars were nicely turned out. Value for money is subjective, and as far as i'm aware clubs like CTCRC cater for historic saloons (among others) with 2 races across a weekend, so if drivers needed or wanted to share costs they could have the pleasure of doing an entire race themselves, instead of inheriting something at a pit stop with tyres/brakes already cooked.
As for the competiveness, I am sure I said this before, but its class based so people are battling for class honours as well as overall so there is usually something to fight for throughout the field.
My race car is still going after nearly 40 years and Autosport Magazine have just done a 3 page write up on it...
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/the-monstr...
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/the-monstr...
andy97 said:
It’s horses for courses, I guess. Some people prefer sprint races and some people prefer the slightly longer format, and the option of sharing/ teamwork etc. The CSCC races are all generally on one of 2 days in the meeting, too, so no need to have 2 nights away from home or 2 nights ina hotel etc.
As for the competiveness, I am sure I said this before, but its class based so people are battling for class honours as well as overall so there is usually something to fight for throughout the field.
Apologies missed your response - indeed, you pay your money you take your choice! As for the competiveness, I am sure I said this before, but its class based so people are battling for class honours as well as overall so there is usually something to fight for throughout the field.
Not sure of the relativity of pointing out something is 'class-based', as far as I was aware this was how every form of motorsport was organised aside from one-make racing series? It was more the fact i'd rather compete in a field of classes of similar car, as opposed to a race with one class of historic saloon cars, one class of sports cars from the 60s/early 70s, and then a couple of one-make races thrown in just for fun. As mentioned you pay your money you take your choice, but it's no issue as I just don't enter with CSCC, HRDC or other series that have to amalgamate series to try and bolster grid numbers.
QuadCamCapri said:
My race car is still going after nearly 40 years and Autosport Magazine have just done a 3 page write up on it...
https://www.autosport.com/national/news/the-monstr...
That's brilliant, thankyou for sharing - great to read.https://www.autosport.com/national/news/the-monstr...
CKY said:
andy97 said:
It’s horses for courses, I guess. Some people prefer sprint races and some people prefer the slightly longer format, and the option of sharing/ teamwork etc. The CSCC races are all generally on one of 2 days in the meeting, too, so no need to have 2 nights away from home or 2 nights ina hotel etc.
As for the competiveness, I am sure I said this before, but its class based so people are battling for class honours as well as overall so there is usually something to fight for throughout the field.
Apologies missed your response - indeed, you pay your money you take your choice! As for the competiveness, I am sure I said this before, but its class based so people are battling for class honours as well as overall so there is usually something to fight for throughout the field.
Not sure of the relativity of pointing out something is 'class-based', as far as I was aware this was how every form of motorsport was organised aside from one-make racing series? It was more the fact i'd rather compete in a field of classes of similar car, as opposed to a race with one class of historic saloon cars, one class of sports cars from the 60s/early 70s, and then a couple of one-make races thrown in just for fun. As mentioned you pay your money you take your choice, but it's no issue as I just don't enter with CSCC, HRDC or other series that have to amalgamate series to try and bolster grid numbers.
Cars from the 60s, cars from the 70s & 80s, cars from the 90s, cars from the 21st century and then cars that want to run on slicks, tin tops <2litres, turbo tin tops, Locaterfields etc.
This year the club has also taken on the refugees from other clubs such as some of the MG car club series, Jaguar series and ex Kumho BMW series.
The point is that within most CSCC series, the participants are generally racing cars from a similar era and technology and so, within reason, and within the classes, the cars are competitive with each other.
Full grids across the board mean, there is usually someone to race against, better value for money entry fees, better spectacle for marshals and spectators and a more sustainable club.
For most clubs these days a minimum 25 car grid across every race is required to break even so combining grids is often necessary to make an event affordable.
Something like 1200 plus club members and 400 cars entered across many weekend meetings mean CSCC must be doing something right.
QuadCamCapri said:
CKY said:
That's brilliant, thankyou for sharing - great to read.
Cheers CKY, I did waffle on a bit 
andy97 said:
Not entirely sure I understand your point as CSCC has separate races for each of:
Cars from the 60s, cars from the 70s & 80s, cars from the 90s, cars from the 21st century and then cars that want to run on slicks, tin tops <2litres, turbo tin tops, Locaterfields etc.
This year the club has also taken on the refugees from other clubs such as some of the MG car club series, Jaguar series and ex Kumho BMW series.
The point is that within most CSCC series, the participants are generally racing cars from a similar era and technology and so, within reason, and within the classes, the cars are competitive with each other.
Full grids across the board mean, there is usually someone to race against, better value for money entry fees, better spectacle for marshals and spectators and a more sustainable club.
For most clubs these days a minimum 25 car grid across every race is required to break even so combining grids is often necessary to make an event affordable.
Something like 1200 plus club members and 400 cars entered across many weekend meetings mean CSCC must be doing something right.
I think that possibly answers the "Where Have All The Racing Cars Gone?" part of the thread - people are using them in multi-class races; i'm probably slightly 'old school' in that i'm used to club racing of the 70s-90s where you had separate races for pre-66 saloons/GT and sports cars/single seaters of varying tiers/clubman cars etc etc. The whole multi-class racing wouldn't be for me for sure and i'd rather keep my car for a specific series rather than getting it out 'for the hell of it', but as you say from the club's point of view they're daft not to in respect of bringing grid costs down and appealing to a wider membership audience. I saw a pre-66 touring car race recently at Cadwell Park where the grid had been amalgamated with some other series, there were 5 cars in total for the pre-66 touring car classes! This was a series that 20+ years ago had entries of 15-25 cars for each round - sure some have probably migrated to CTCRC, CSCC or wherever, but certainly not all cars. Fair play to CTCRC, I saw they had 22 pre-1966 saloon cars out for their races at Mallory Park recently, wonder if it has anything to do with them not stipulating people run those bloody Dunlop CR65 tyres?Cars from the 60s, cars from the 70s & 80s, cars from the 90s, cars from the 21st century and then cars that want to run on slicks, tin tops <2litres, turbo tin tops, Locaterfields etc.
This year the club has also taken on the refugees from other clubs such as some of the MG car club series, Jaguar series and ex Kumho BMW series.
The point is that within most CSCC series, the participants are generally racing cars from a similar era and technology and so, within reason, and within the classes, the cars are competitive with each other.
Full grids across the board mean, there is usually someone to race against, better value for money entry fees, better spectacle for marshals and spectators and a more sustainable club.
For most clubs these days a minimum 25 car grid across every race is required to break even so combining grids is often necessary to make an event affordable.
Something like 1200 plus club members and 400 cars entered across many weekend meetings mean CSCC must be doing something right.
Wow - over 2 years since I started this thread... and still numbers seem to be dwindling on various clubs' grids, the number of races being lost to form multi-class/car type 'races' increasing and more importantly, the costs keep spiralling! A precursory glance at an entry for Brands Hatch in August - £895 for 30 minutes practice + 45 minute race, plus £75 per driver that isn't a member of the club (£250 club membership costs ffs), and then those Dunlop crossplies at £950 for a set of 4... It was interesting speaking to one of the instructors who races in historics when I re-did my ARDS test earlier this year that the views I hold were not only similar to his own, but also echoed among people that he had spoken with about the current situation; interestingly (and more relevant to my interests) he also alluded to the fact that Julius Thurgood doesn't hold as much weight with regard to the 'selection committee' for the St Mary's Trophy @ Goodwood, no further information was forthcoming on the matter but given how long it's been Julius' pantomime it was intriguing news 
So, to those with historic racing cars that no longer compete - what's stopping you getting them out of the garage and on to the black stuff?
I recently did a trackday @ Castle Combe for pre-2000 cars (organised by Slip & Grip), and must say it's the best on-track experience i've had in recent memory - not something I thought i'd be saying of a trackday!
Organisation, participants and variety of machinery in attendance were all great, the weather was a bit hit and miss in the morning but it just added to the fun! In the afternoon I went out and inadvertently ended up doing >20 laps back to back, during which I had a ding dong with a chap in a Golf VR6, another with a chap in a 105E, and think during the whole session I had to let one faster car pass; it was honestly so refreshing that it made me see that trackdays can actually be fun - would consider doing another 'older cars' trackday for sure.
So, to those with historic racing cars that no longer compete - what's stopping you getting them out of the garage and on to the black stuff?
I recently did a trackday @ Castle Combe for pre-2000 cars (organised by Slip & Grip), and must say it's the best on-track experience i've had in recent memory - not something I thought i'd be saying of a trackday!
Organisation, participants and variety of machinery in attendance were all great, the weather was a bit hit and miss in the morning but it just added to the fun! In the afternoon I went out and inadvertently ended up doing >20 laps back to back, during which I had a ding dong with a chap in a Golf VR6, another with a chap in a 105E, and think during the whole session I had to let one faster car pass; it was honestly so refreshing that it made me see that trackdays can actually be fun - would consider doing another 'older cars' trackday for sure. coppice said:
And CSCC Anglesey this weekend , where I'm a steward. Shame about Saturday's weather - but it is summer , and Wales ...
That’ll be me doing my rain dances all week. Racing on Saturday with the Jags, hoping for a damp one so I can have a go at the faster cars. Sorry!Feel free to pop by for a beer in the paddock, I’ll owe you one if it rains as much as I’m hoping
CanoeSniffer said:
coppice said:
And CSCC Anglesey this weekend , where I'm a steward. Shame about Saturday's weather - but it is summer , and Wales ...
That’ll be me doing my rain dances all week. Racing on Saturday with the Jags, hoping for a damp one so I can have a go at the faster cars. Sorry!
Cheers for the CSCC recommendations - Classic K appears to be the most suitable (would need to read the regulations to see what's going on), Swinging 60s appears to have a couple of A40 saloon cars entered - again would need to read the regs. Struggling to differentiate between the 2 series though, seems a lot of overlap with near-identical cars entered in either race?
Interesting thread. I am interested in all cars and engines and mechanical things, have done the odd trackday in my Westfield including a weeks holiday to the 'Ring with uni mates, and competed in national autosolo and autotesting with it for a few years till I found married life, my daily is a 24yo 330ci ive had 8 years, and have an uncle who has been involved in 2cv racing all my life and most of his, his son did Jnr Karting and Saxmax.
But also, as a 37yo graduate engineer in a senior design role, my wife is 6 months of becoming a consultant doctor, I'm absolutely skint!
We bank a decent amount each month, the mortgage isnt at all unreasonable because we bought 6 years ago not todays prices and I had a house with lodgers beforehand and put that money into it, but by the time we have paid the months bills and done the weekly shop a few times, there is sufficiently little left we will probably have to sell the Westfield to fund a second maternity leave.
At which point Ito an extent, I wonder who can afford to go racing if I cant even begin to think about funding it.
But also, as a 37yo graduate engineer in a senior design role, my wife is 6 months of becoming a consultant doctor, I'm absolutely skint!
We bank a decent amount each month, the mortgage isnt at all unreasonable because we bought 6 years ago not todays prices and I had a house with lodgers beforehand and put that money into it, but by the time we have paid the months bills and done the weekly shop a few times, there is sufficiently little left we will probably have to sell the Westfield to fund a second maternity leave.
At which point Ito an extent, I wonder who can afford to go racing if I cant even begin to think about funding it.
dhutch said:
!
I wonder who can afford to go racing if I cant even begin to think about funding it.
The thing is... Racing doesn't actually have to be as expensive as some people make out. Yes the entry fees are a fair bit of money but you don't need new tyres every race, or brand new brake pads, or a team of people running cars to have fun (if you want to run at the front you probably do). I wonder who can afford to go racing if I cant even begin to think about funding it.
Last season I did 7 races on one set of used slicks (£120) and two sets of brake pads. My costs were entry fees, fuel, brake fluid (a few bottles at ~£15) and the time needed to check the car over before each race. I wasn't running at the front but I always had somebody to race against and often managed to beat people in cars that were faster or better than mine
It's certainly not a cheap hobby but it definitely doesn't need to be as expensive as some people are lead to believe.
...also it's really really good fun and a lot cheaper than a cocaine habit or having a mistress 😀
Comparing racing to other mid-life crises (Porsche/ yacht/ drugs/ divorce etc) it is not only cheap it also offers much greater return on investment (I think about it, plan it every day).
There are other threads on racing for under £10k including the car purchase (Minis & 2CVs could be fun). As I share a Caterham with a friend and we're doing it on a shoe string it is costing less than £10k a year including the purchase. And, as he's mildly funny it makes the long journeys less tedious.
Anything close to £10k is still a huge outlay, which, I guess for most of us means making compromises elsewhere, and, could all be finished with one 'moment'.
As I'm 50 next year and want to race at Spa to crown my own MLC the compromises have so far been worthwhile. At 37 and with a potential baby on the way it may not be the time to make the compromises.
There are other threads on racing for under £10k including the car purchase (Minis & 2CVs could be fun). As I share a Caterham with a friend and we're doing it on a shoe string it is costing less than £10k a year including the purchase. And, as he's mildly funny it makes the long journeys less tedious.
Anything close to £10k is still a huge outlay, which, I guess for most of us means making compromises elsewhere, and, could all be finished with one 'moment'.
As I'm 50 next year and want to race at Spa to crown my own MLC the compromises have so far been worthwhile. At 37 and with a potential baby on the way it may not be the time to make the compromises.
Both valid replies, and I don't want to derail the thread, especially as said this isn't the time for me to take the plunge, but still something I think about. But yeah, its surprised me how tight money has become. Nursery fees are a chunk of that, and are still doing the tail ends of house renovations, but the price of everything has really rocketed.
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