Defending yourself in Middle East
Discussion
Hey guys, wanted to ask you all a question and to give examples if you have them.
In your experiences, and through examples in the press, what is your view on self defence in the region?
Say, if someone broke into your home in Dubai, and threatened you and/or your family with a knife. If say you were to defend yourself and accidently stab the thief, in the shoulder, then pinned him down till the police came to beat the crap out of him, what would happen to you in that example?
Would it be treated in a similar way to the UK, i.e. reasonable force, so the thief would sue you for GBH or similar and you'd get a record, or the same as the USA, i.e. kill anyone that even thinks about tresspassing on your land, and receive a medal for doing so.
Obviously we are at the behest of shaira law here, but are there any examples of such cases out there?
In your experiences, and through examples in the press, what is your view on self defence in the region?
Say, if someone broke into your home in Dubai, and threatened you and/or your family with a knife. If say you were to defend yourself and accidently stab the thief, in the shoulder, then pinned him down till the police came to beat the crap out of him, what would happen to you in that example?
Would it be treated in a similar way to the UK, i.e. reasonable force, so the thief would sue you for GBH or similar and you'd get a record, or the same as the USA, i.e. kill anyone that even thinks about tresspassing on your land, and receive a medal for doing so.
Obviously we are at the behest of shaira law here, but are there any examples of such cases out there?
I think the key factor would be the nationality of the person you were defending yourself against. I hate to say it but if you got into a fight with a local, no matter what the circumstances, I wouldn't fancy your chances of success in court. However, if you are a westerner (sorry, i'm assuming you're a westerner) and you got into a fight with some Bangladeshi labourer, I'm sure the law/police would be on your side.
The question of break-ins is less relevant here. You don't hear about too many - maybe they happen but they're not really reported in the media. Although I doi think there would be sympathy if you gave someone a kicking who had broken in to your house. I don't see the authorities letting the burglar sue you for breaking his face.
And finally, if drink is involved things may be different. The police do not take kindly to drunken idiots causing trouble and I reckon you'd get a rough ride.
The question of break-ins is less relevant here. You don't hear about too many - maybe they happen but they're not really reported in the media. Although I doi think there would be sympathy if you gave someone a kicking who had broken in to your house. I don't see the authorities letting the burglar sue you for breaking his face.
And finally, if drink is involved things may be different. The police do not take kindly to drunken idiots causing trouble and I reckon you'd get a rough ride.
Hi s1mma. Hope all is well.
FWIW, on the rare occasion I've had to deal with Dubai police, they've been nothing less than exceptionally courteous and professional, though it helps if one remains well spoken, is white collar and a family man. I don't think it's so much a nationality thing, despite the popular perception.
If you used reasonable force to defend yourself and your family, restrained the guy until the police arrived, you would be viewed pretty favourably. The definition of reasonable force out here would be more than the UK, that's for sure.
Since we got broken into a few years back by a drug user looking for cash, I've slept with a cricket bat nearby, and unlike the UK I would have no fears in using it.
FWIW, on the rare occasion I've had to deal with Dubai police, they've been nothing less than exceptionally courteous and professional, though it helps if one remains well spoken, is white collar and a family man. I don't think it's so much a nationality thing, despite the popular perception.
If you used reasonable force to defend yourself and your family, restrained the guy until the police arrived, you would be viewed pretty favourably. The definition of reasonable force out here would be more than the UK, that's for sure.
Since we got broken into a few years back by a drug user looking for cash, I've slept with a cricket bat nearby, and unlike the UK I would have no fears in using it.
Guys, thanks for the comments, all very interesting.
The reason I'm asking is because my wife woke me up in the middle of the night one night, saying she heard a noise in our flat. She said she thought someone was there. Now I'm usually fine to go and take a look, although I never go empty handed (just in case). Now what did I happen to have on my bedside table - one of my knives that I had used to open a package some days previous (a USA Smith and Wesson military jobbie, looks like it could skin a crocodile). Guns for show, knives for a pro and all that.
So, when picking it up the question I posted above popped into my head. I was pretty sure there was no one there, although you do go into SAS black ops mode when searching the house/flat in that situation, keeping quiet and trying to hear any noise that would indicate the wife was right. Sticking to the walls, become the shadows, controlled breathing, it's your time to become Andy Mcnab in your undies.
So if I drilled that knife into an unsuspecting drug addict or thief, they wouldn't be getting up anytime soon. And I didn't want to get deported/imprisoned for doing something against the law.
Mcbook, I am a westener, although Iranian by origin, so a bit mixed. Look like a local, speak like the queen. It confuses a lot of people, especially in full beard mode. Harris, hope you're well mate.
The reason I'm asking is because my wife woke me up in the middle of the night one night, saying she heard a noise in our flat. She said she thought someone was there. Now I'm usually fine to go and take a look, although I never go empty handed (just in case). Now what did I happen to have on my bedside table - one of my knives that I had used to open a package some days previous (a USA Smith and Wesson military jobbie, looks like it could skin a crocodile). Guns for show, knives for a pro and all that.
So, when picking it up the question I posted above popped into my head. I was pretty sure there was no one there, although you do go into SAS black ops mode when searching the house/flat in that situation, keeping quiet and trying to hear any noise that would indicate the wife was right. Sticking to the walls, become the shadows, controlled breathing, it's your time to become Andy Mcnab in your undies.
So if I drilled that knife into an unsuspecting drug addict or thief, they wouldn't be getting up anytime soon. And I didn't want to get deported/imprisoned for doing something against the law.
Mcbook, I am a westener, although Iranian by origin, so a bit mixed. Look like a local, speak like the queen. It confuses a lot of people, especially in full beard mode. Harris, hope you're well mate.
I agree with Harris, reasonable force is OK and variable depending on who it is using it and who against.
Usually it is one persons word versus another so the social standing of those people means everything when it comes to who is telling the truth.
For me, it would be a case of "No, officer, his testicles were already missing when he broke in and he must have brought that 50kg dog that is attached to his throat with him."
Usually it is one persons word versus another so the social standing of those people means everything when it comes to who is telling the truth.
For me, it would be a case of "No, officer, his testicles were already missing when he broke in and he must have brought that 50kg dog that is attached to his throat with him."
Flippin' 'ell, S1MMA, I have a phone and a glass of water on my bedside table!! I suspect slitting someone's jugular open with a Crocodile Dundee knife in the dark might be a tad extreme.
We got lucky when we were broken into. I was abroad on business and my wife was asleep upstairs. She heard a noise and assumed it was the maid. Lucky for her she left her purse downstairs and the thief was after cash only. If she had kept it upstairs as I always tell her, she might have had an unwelcome visitor.
We got lucky when we were broken into. I was abroad on business and my wife was asleep upstairs. She heard a noise and assumed it was the maid. Lucky for her she left her purse downstairs and the thief was after cash only. If she had kept it upstairs as I always tell her, she might have had an unwelcome visitor.
I'm not sure that use of a knife would ever be considered reasonable. I used to work with the coppers quite a bit in the UK and they said the best thing to use is something that most people in a jury would believe that you would normally have in your room/upstairs. So:
Guns, knives, baseball bats (who plays baseball anyway?!), axes, crowbars and hammers are out.
Golf clubs, tennis rackets (side on of course), ornaments (some of them chose ornaments on the basis of 'weaponability') are in.
Most of all they recommended the use of a golf club as it looks threatening when you're in position, keeps you some distance from your target and whilst effective is unlikely to kill.
S1MMA and his wife this morning:
Guns, knives, baseball bats (who plays baseball anyway?!), axes, crowbars and hammers are out.
Golf clubs, tennis rackets (side on of course), ornaments (some of them chose ornaments on the basis of 'weaponability') are in.
Most of all they recommended the use of a golf club as it looks threatening when you're in position, keeps you some distance from your target and whilst effective is unlikely to kill.
S1MMA and his wife this morning:
Edited by Hitch78 on Sunday 30th January 08:57
Just to add - the cops also said that the very best thing to do was to make lots of noise as you get up, take your time making your way towards the room with the noise and turn the lights on in all of the rooms you go through and pass.
This of course is based on the idea that you're much better off trying to get the invader to escape than sneaking in for a bit of surprise argy-bargy in the dark with a person who is a totally unknown risk and has a lot to lose.
This of course is based on the idea that you're much better off trying to get the invader to escape than sneaking in for a bit of surprise argy-bargy in the dark with a person who is a totally unknown risk and has a lot to lose.
Thanks guys, some good advice there.
I'll move my golf clubs into my bedroom closet then, or keep a few handy. I would assume an Iron is going to be more effective than a wood/driver? What do we reckon is best for weight (distribution) when smacking the crap out of someone? 9i or 4i? And where to target first? Face or gut/legs? Balls?
I have tennis racket and squash racket collection in bedroom, but would prefer the golf club tbh. My thinking with the knife is that if the thief saw me coming towards them looking like a hezbollah commando crossed with crocodile dundee then they would rather jump off the balcony then engage.
Its all a bit of comedy to be honest, I don't see a high probability of a thief getting access to my secure building, then targetting the 23rd floor, then targetting my flat which is always double locked with key in the lock so it cant be picked. I think a more real threat could be when out and about, at a deserted ATM or such like. Whats the law on carrying knifes out and about in public in the UAE, I would imagine they are quite harsh? I.e. no tolerence? I don't see much in the way of knives or swords for sale here so assume they are banned?
I'll move my golf clubs into my bedroom closet then, or keep a few handy. I would assume an Iron is going to be more effective than a wood/driver? What do we reckon is best for weight (distribution) when smacking the crap out of someone? 9i or 4i? And where to target first? Face or gut/legs? Balls?
I have tennis racket and squash racket collection in bedroom, but would prefer the golf club tbh. My thinking with the knife is that if the thief saw me coming towards them looking like a hezbollah commando crossed with crocodile dundee then they would rather jump off the balcony then engage.
Its all a bit of comedy to be honest, I don't see a high probability of a thief getting access to my secure building, then targetting the 23rd floor, then targetting my flat which is always double locked with key in the lock so it cant be picked. I think a more real threat could be when out and about, at a deserted ATM or such like. Whats the law on carrying knifes out and about in public in the UAE, I would imagine they are quite harsh? I.e. no tolerence? I don't see much in the way of knives or swords for sale here so assume they are banned?
S1MMA said:
Thanks guys, some good advice there.
I'll move my golf clubs into my bedroom closet then, or keep a few handy. I would assume an Iron is going to be more effective than a wood/driver? What do we reckon is best for weight (distribution) when smacking the crap out of someone? 9i or 4i? And where to target first? Face or gut/legs? Balls?
Very good question. A 4i will give you longer reach but you need a wider flatter swing, but a 9i, W or SW will give you more weight, you need less space to swing and has a far, far sharper edge.I'll move my golf clubs into my bedroom closet then, or keep a few handy. I would assume an Iron is going to be more effective than a wood/driver? What do we reckon is best for weight (distribution) when smacking the crap out of someone? 9i or 4i? And where to target first? Face or gut/legs? Balls?
Go for the upper body/face. the felon will try to raise arms to defend, which is when you go for the kick in the b
ks. Once down, use the club to finish off the job.yorky500 said:
Very good question. A 4i will give you longer reach but you need a wider flatter swing, but a 9i, W or SW will give you more weight, you need less space to swing and has a far, far sharper edge.
Go for the upper body/face. the felon will try to raise arms to defend, which is when you go for the kick in the bks. Once down, use the club to finish off the job.
Thsnk mate! Very helpful! Go for the upper body/face. the felon will try to raise arms to defend, which is when you go for the kick in the b
ks. Once down, use the club to finish off the job.
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