Discussion
As I mentioned on another thread, it looks as though I'm going to be headed to Dubai fairly soon to set up a project there.
As part of that, I need some details of a reliable business IT supplier. I'm not sure if anyone on here is in IT, but if not perhaps you could talk to your IT departments and get some contact details for me.
Payment in beer when I arrive obviously!
As part of that, I need some details of a reliable business IT supplier. I'm not sure if anyone on here is in IT, but if not perhaps you could talk to your IT departments and get some contact details for me.
Payment in beer when I arrive obviously!
K50 DEL said:
As I mentioned on another thread, it looks as though I'm going to be headed to Dubai fairly soon to set up a project there.
As part of that, I need some details of a reliable business IT supplier. I'm not sure if anyone on here is in IT, but if not perhaps you could talk to your IT departments and get some contact details for me.
Payment in beer when I arrive obviously!
Hi Del - first thing you need to know...there are very few reliable businesses/suppliers here...you just have to factor that into your plans, particularly if you're going to involve the local telecoms company. There are alot of locals out here who do know their stuff...but they have alot of trouble with documentation and due diligence. Service management is an area that you'll have to pay particular attention to, as none of the things you take for granted in the UK/US/EU etc can be taken as read!As part of that, I need some details of a reliable business IT supplier. I'm not sure if anyone on here is in IT, but if not perhaps you could talk to your IT departments and get some contact details for me.
Payment in beer when I arrive obviously!
What kind of suppliers are you looking for?
J.
As Jezz said - also remember that when you order stuff they will make up a delivery date that is usually completely b
ks.
I ordered a specific computer to be made for a film production edit suite. Sent it out to tender to a few places that I'd been recommended. Didn't choose the cheapest but the one that seemed to understand the most. When I asked for a delivery date the bloke said 'next Wednesday'. Now, I knew for a fact that he had to order components from the US and Asia to build this thing and I'd factored in 2 months. I laughed at the guy and said that if I get it by next week I'd pay double.
2 months later, almost to the day, it was ready...
They tell you what they think you want to hear and then are prepared to bluff it when nothing happens. It's standard business practice out here - they don't get the strategy of under promise and over deliver.
Problem is that every other business sector is like this as a lot of clients here are idiots and get what they deserve.
Something else to bear in mind is make sure you leave no ambiguity whatsoever - give them an opportunity to 'think' and two things will happen.
1. Nothing. Everything will grind to a halt until you start chasing and then the issue will come to light.
2. They will 'think' and 10 times out of 10 it will go horribly wrong and to fix it will take tons more time and they will argue for ever that it will be at your cost.
It's a 'face' issue. They will never tell you that they haven't understood something - you will brief them and they'll go away and do what they think you meant which often is nothing like what you wanted. I make a point of always having a supplier (or staff) repeat back to me what I want to clarify - most times, it's wrong.
Another example was a bunch of T-Shirts required for greeters on an exhibition stand. We ordered 5 large white shirts for the guys and 5 small green shirts for the girls. The day before the exhibition, the company delivered 10 large white shirts. When I asked why they'd got something so simple wrong, they told me that they'd run out of small green shirts and 'thought' that 5 large white ones would be ok. When I asked why they didn't call me a few days before to tell me that they couldn't deliver exactly what we wanted, I just got blank looks.
Don't let them think and don't believe any deilvery times. Most suppliers here need micro managing.
This is why, having worked Production, Agency and Client side in the Middle East, I'm setting up a marketing and communications agency that acts on behalf of companys so they get the best value out of the various supplier & service components and that the good agencies etc... get clear direction from the clients.
ks.I ordered a specific computer to be made for a film production edit suite. Sent it out to tender to a few places that I'd been recommended. Didn't choose the cheapest but the one that seemed to understand the most. When I asked for a delivery date the bloke said 'next Wednesday'. Now, I knew for a fact that he had to order components from the US and Asia to build this thing and I'd factored in 2 months. I laughed at the guy and said that if I get it by next week I'd pay double.
2 months later, almost to the day, it was ready...
They tell you what they think you want to hear and then are prepared to bluff it when nothing happens. It's standard business practice out here - they don't get the strategy of under promise and over deliver.
Problem is that every other business sector is like this as a lot of clients here are idiots and get what they deserve.
Something else to bear in mind is make sure you leave no ambiguity whatsoever - give them an opportunity to 'think' and two things will happen.
1. Nothing. Everything will grind to a halt until you start chasing and then the issue will come to light.
2. They will 'think' and 10 times out of 10 it will go horribly wrong and to fix it will take tons more time and they will argue for ever that it will be at your cost.
It's a 'face' issue. They will never tell you that they haven't understood something - you will brief them and they'll go away and do what they think you meant which often is nothing like what you wanted. I make a point of always having a supplier (or staff) repeat back to me what I want to clarify - most times, it's wrong.
Another example was a bunch of T-Shirts required for greeters on an exhibition stand. We ordered 5 large white shirts for the guys and 5 small green shirts for the girls. The day before the exhibition, the company delivered 10 large white shirts. When I asked why they'd got something so simple wrong, they told me that they'd run out of small green shirts and 'thought' that 5 large white ones would be ok. When I asked why they didn't call me a few days before to tell me that they couldn't deliver exactly what we wanted, I just got blank looks.
Don't let them think and don't believe any deilvery times. Most suppliers here need micro managing.
This is why, having worked Production, Agency and Client side in the Middle East, I'm setting up a marketing and communications agency that acts on behalf of companys so they get the best value out of the various supplier & service components and that the good agencies etc... get clear direction from the clients.
Edited by Asterix on Tuesday 9th March 12:21
jezzaaa said:
What kind of suppliers are you looking for?
J.
Basically I'll be coming into a new build office building and I need to turn it into a fully functioning office for 50 people complete with LAN, Phones, Video conferencing etc etc.J.
Hence I'll need supplier(s) for everything from CAT5 cables to servers and workstations as well as all the other technology required to run an office.
I'm transferring from West Africa, so I'm used to the over promise / under deliver way of working, just hopeful that I can get some leads on (fairly) decent people to use in advance of coming over as I don't think I've got too much time to spare!
K50 DEL said:
jezzaaa said:
What kind of suppliers are you looking for?
J.
Basically I'll be coming into a new build office building and I need to turn it into a fully functioning office for 50 people complete with LAN, Phones, Video conferencing etc etc.J.
Hence I'll need supplier(s) for everything from CAT5 cables to servers and workstations as well as all the other technology required to run an office.
I'm transferring from West Africa, so I'm used to the over promise / under deliver way of working, just hopeful that I can get some leads on (fairly) decent people to use in advance of coming over as I don't think I've got too much time to spare!
We've just done the same for a 60 person office with exactly the same requirements. We had a dedicated manager to look after the whole process and it still went tits up. We were due to move in in March last year and we got in in January... Saying that, it is in Sharjah
Asterix said:
K50 DEL said:
jezzaaa said:
What kind of suppliers are you looking for?
J.
Basically I'll be coming into a new build office building and I need to turn it into a fully functioning office for 50 people complete with LAN, Phones, Video conferencing etc etc.J.
Hence I'll need supplier(s) for everything from CAT5 cables to servers and workstations as well as all the other technology required to run an office.
I'm transferring from West Africa, so I'm used to the over promise / under deliver way of working, just hopeful that I can get some leads on (fairly) decent people to use in advance of coming over as I don't think I've got too much time to spare!
We've just done the same for a 60 person office with exactly the same requirements. We had a dedicated manager to look after the whole process and it still went tits up. We were due to move in in March last year and we got in in January... Saying that, it is in Sharjah
Don't suppose you feel like giving me a little list of what went wrong do you?!!
One other thing I need as well.... what's the options for a decent Internet connection in Dubai?
Here in Luanda it's V-Sat or nothing, but I assume that SDSL / Leased Lines are available in Dubai?
What went wrong....
Nearly everything - admittedly, ours was a bit more complex as we had to rip out loads of of tiny offices to create an open plan environment and then fit-out from scratch.
The problems were the suppliers. Not because they were bad, per se, but mainly on timings and a lack of care and attention to details.
We used one company to rip out and they took a lot longer than they'd promised (even with us factoring in the usual stuff) so the installation company had to be dismissed and by the time we were ready they didn't have the resources so we had to wait until they'd finished another job. Even though the Comms and IT stuff was ordered way be for we started, this came with lots of delays. When it finally turned up the conduits installed by the previous company weren't right (or something) and that had to be rectified - at the same time we needed the power supply uprated and SEWA took for ever. Some of the glass partitioning fitted was damaged by the carpet fitters, the painters damaged some of the carpet, the guys moving in the office modules damaged the painting and carpets and the modules themselves...
Etc... etc... etc...
Unfortunately, most people put up with it becasue they want to do stuff on the cheap and suppliers won't up their game as it costs more to employ good staff and the clients won't pay. Also, the clients want everything done yesterday and will often change briefs a number of times after the build has started.
Sorry to be so negative but it's simply how it works here.
I had a car repaired after a minor shunt and the front bumper came back with paint runs and hairs in the paint. When I brought it up with the manager he simply shrugged and said that it was as good as I was going to get. I went mental at the insurance company and 6 weeks later got them to pressure the agency to do it again.
Shop staff - wanted to get some high spec hi-fi stuff and after researching I found a place that stocked the stuff. I go in there and the staff know absolutely nothing about what they sell and did the minimum to keep me happy - they don't care because they get paid fk all and do just enough to get through the day - I don't blame them, I'd be the same in their position. The shop owner won't spend the money to employ good staff because if I want to buy this particular kit, there's only one place I can go so I have to lump it - and they know that. The consumer/client in this part of the world, for the most part, is treated with complete contempt. There are, of course, exceptions and some companies doing great stuff, but they're hard to find and often very expensive.
Internet - 2 suppliers Etisalat and Du. As far as I know, there are certain areas with hi-speed fibre optic delivery but it's not all over - you'd need to check. Also, it's pricey. I pay around £90 a month for a 4mb at home while in the UK you can get 8mb for around £15!
Nearly everything - admittedly, ours was a bit more complex as we had to rip out loads of of tiny offices to create an open plan environment and then fit-out from scratch.
The problems were the suppliers. Not because they were bad, per se, but mainly on timings and a lack of care and attention to details.
We used one company to rip out and they took a lot longer than they'd promised (even with us factoring in the usual stuff) so the installation company had to be dismissed and by the time we were ready they didn't have the resources so we had to wait until they'd finished another job. Even though the Comms and IT stuff was ordered way be for we started, this came with lots of delays. When it finally turned up the conduits installed by the previous company weren't right (or something) and that had to be rectified - at the same time we needed the power supply uprated and SEWA took for ever. Some of the glass partitioning fitted was damaged by the carpet fitters, the painters damaged some of the carpet, the guys moving in the office modules damaged the painting and carpets and the modules themselves...
Etc... etc... etc...
Unfortunately, most people put up with it becasue they want to do stuff on the cheap and suppliers won't up their game as it costs more to employ good staff and the clients won't pay. Also, the clients want everything done yesterday and will often change briefs a number of times after the build has started.
Sorry to be so negative but it's simply how it works here.
I had a car repaired after a minor shunt and the front bumper came back with paint runs and hairs in the paint. When I brought it up with the manager he simply shrugged and said that it was as good as I was going to get. I went mental at the insurance company and 6 weeks later got them to pressure the agency to do it again.
Shop staff - wanted to get some high spec hi-fi stuff and after researching I found a place that stocked the stuff. I go in there and the staff know absolutely nothing about what they sell and did the minimum to keep me happy - they don't care because they get paid f
k all and do just enough to get through the day - I don't blame them, I'd be the same in their position. The shop owner won't spend the money to employ good staff because if I want to buy this particular kit, there's only one place I can go so I have to lump it - and they know that. The consumer/client in this part of the world, for the most part, is treated with complete contempt. There are, of course, exceptions and some companies doing great stuff, but they're hard to find and often very expensive.Internet - 2 suppliers Etisalat and Du. As far as I know, there are certain areas with hi-speed fibre optic delivery but it's not all over - you'd need to check. Also, it's pricey. I pay around £90 a month for a 4mb at home while in the UK you can get 8mb for around £15!
Edited by Asterix on Tuesday 9th March 12:56
Hopefully I'll alleviate a fair amount of that by the fact that I'll be doing the IT / Cabling installation myself... all I need to find are the suppliers. (Any recommendations?)
The telecoms will be down to locals, so I'm sure that will go wrong!
I could really do with a "fact-finding" trip out there, but I'm not sure that'll fly with the budget!!
The telecoms will be down to locals, so I'm sure that will go wrong!
I could really do with a "fact-finding" trip out there, but I'm not sure that'll fly with the budget!!
My friend,
I cannot add too much more than has already been said. But put it this way. In London, it would take you what, 2 months? Now take that number.....double it, add a bit more, then multlply it by itself.
Everyone really is sh!t here. Everythnig is an incrediable struggle. As long as you have the attitude of just going with the flow and "it'll arrive when it arrives" kinda view, you'll be fine.
However, if when speaking to someone and he suggests he'll be round at 09:00 to see you....don't bother getting there before 11:00...he won't.
If a company says something will be delivered by noon, it'll be 16:00...and it'll be the wrong thing. Trust me, this WILL happen.
I think you get the idea!!
I cannot add too much more than has already been said. But put it this way. In London, it would take you what, 2 months? Now take that number.....double it, add a bit more, then multlply it by itself.
Everyone really is sh!t here. Everythnig is an incrediable struggle. As long as you have the attitude of just going with the flow and "it'll arrive when it arrives" kinda view, you'll be fine.
However, if when speaking to someone and he suggests he'll be round at 09:00 to see you....don't bother getting there before 11:00...he won't.
If a company says something will be delivered by noon, it'll be 16:00...and it'll be the wrong thing. Trust me, this WILL happen.
I think you get the idea!!
BluePurpleRed said:
I don't know anything about this sort of thing but why not ship stuff and people in on a temp contract from the UK? Now I have typed this I am sure there are a billion reasons, just imagine a lot of poeple would go over for 2 months for OK wedge at the moment and get it done well?
As I noted about, apart from the phone system and the Broadband provisioning, I'll be doing the labour myself, it's the physical supply of kit that I need to sort out.... I had hoped to avoid having to hand carry things into the country (that's the only way of working where I am right now) but if that's the only option.........
Simple, cost.
Thing is they can get cheap labour over here and think, well if it takes a little longer we'll still be quids in. In reality, it'll take a lot longer and you'll end up patching everything up, till in 10 years time you decide it's so bad, you need to rip it out and start again.....and so the cycle continues.
Thing is they can get cheap labour over here and think, well if it takes a little longer we'll still be quids in. In reality, it'll take a lot longer and you'll end up patching everything up, till in 10 years time you decide it's so bad, you need to rip it out and start again.....and so the cycle continues.
K50 DEL said:
it's the physical supply of kit that I need to sort out....
Fine - if you order it here and let the supplier do his own thing - it is likely that it will turn up very late and will be the wrong thing. I've sat in a supplier's place before and ordered stuff myself to make sure it was the right kit.Also, suppliers will tell you that they can get stuff and they can't but you'll only find out when it's already late and you're chasing up. Then you'll need to find another supplier and start the process again.
As Chilli says - we're not being dramatic, it's just the way it is.
It might be an idea to order with a supplier in the UK and get them to export it. Might cost a little more but will save you a lot of grief. Unless, of course, customs get a snot on with what you have done and then delay everything until you have provided 1 million bits of paper (which they won't tell you about - you have to guess what's needed and then make loads of trips when they'll tell you that you need something else, repeat a hundred times and for 6 months...).
Edited by Asterix on Tuesday 9th March 13:39
[quote=Asterix Unless, of course, customs get a snot on with what you have done and then delay everything until you have provided 1 million bits of paper (which they won't tell you about - you have to guess what's needed and then make loads of trips when they'll tell you that you need something else, repeat a hundred times and for 6 months...).
[/quote]
It is so true, it's unreal!
Edited by Asterix on Tuesday 9th March 13:39
[/quote]
It is so true, it's unreal!
It really is just like operating in Angola... dammit, I had high hopes that everything in Dubai would just.... well.... work.
Oh well, I'll change my request then, can anyone give me the name of some suppliers who will at least still be in business when I'm chasing my (6 month delayed) order!
Oh well, I'll change my request then, can anyone give me the name of some suppliers who will at least still be in business when I'm chasing my (6 month delayed) order!
Mattt said:
He recommended Alpha: http://www.alpha.ae/
Thanks Matt, just e-mailed them and they've already responded.......Gassing Station | Middle East | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff