Buying in Dubai now
Discussion
I’m over here now on holiday and have been looking at apartments to buy. Amazing place ( in my opinion). I would buy off plans and get the keys in about 2 - 3 years. At that point I reckon me and wife would move out here, enjoy the sun and safe and relaxing lifestyle out here. After a few months we’d either stay and get some part time work or rent the apartment out and treat it as a long term investment.
I’ve been in the property business 20 odd years but that is in the UK. I just can’t call what is going to happen out here.
Am I nuts ?
I don’t have much faith in the uk at the moment, a bolt hole elsewhere in a few years might be nice ! And tax free.
Does anyone have a crystal ball ?
Does anyone actually know about the market here?
Please don’t just fill the thread with ‘home of the rich and famous : organised crime ‘ type trolling. I would really appreciate some advice from somebody who has done it recently.
Thanks all,
Dan
I’ve been in the property business 20 odd years but that is in the UK. I just can’t call what is going to happen out here.
Am I nuts ?
I don’t have much faith in the uk at the moment, a bolt hole elsewhere in a few years might be nice ! And tax free.
Does anyone have a crystal ball ?
Does anyone actually know about the market here?
Please don’t just fill the thread with ‘home of the rich and famous : organised crime ‘ type trolling. I would really appreciate some advice from somebody who has done it recently.
Thanks all,
Dan
Buying off plan is the worst idea imaginable.
We have an Apartment nr Malaga (Nerja) and at the time was offered all kinds of incentives to deposit off plan, many developments are still not finished.
My brother invested in Romania , an apartment block in Bucharest just before being accepted into the EU.
The block stands an empty shell.
There's far too many scams out there and that applies everywhere to throw money at off plan building..
We have an Apartment nr Malaga (Nerja) and at the time was offered all kinds of incentives to deposit off plan, many developments are still not finished.
My brother invested in Romania , an apartment block in Bucharest just before being accepted into the EU.
The block stands an empty shell.
There's far too many scams out there and that applies everywhere to throw money at off plan building..
I've not lived in Dubai for a few years now, but the situation regarding buying property there has scarcely changed since the late noughties so my notes here are likely still pretty accurate.
1) Do not buy off plan - there are thousands of people who lost their money by doing this and then the developer going bust... all those half-finished towers you see in business bay, Dubai marina, JLT & the Palm - they were all fully pre-sold and up to 50% paid for when the developers went bankrupt back in the late noughties. It still happens today. Emaar are probably the only "safe" developer from this perspective.
Those people got nothing back, despite court cases and heaven knows what.
More details here:
https://nuarrualhilal.wordpress.com/2020/04/08/res...
Note that all the laws in the World cannot help if the developer has no money and/or has done a bunk.
2) If you buy a pre-owned property, make sure the seller actually owns it - many tales in the times I lived there of properties being sold by people who had no right to sell them - the Land Registry isn't the most organised and there are a lot of buildings bought as investments by people who never actually see them - a bit of a surprise if you've been living there for a year and the rightful owner turns up (yes this really has happened)
3) If you're buying an apartment because of / paying extra for a view - make damn sure another building cannot be built in front - this is going on with a particular building in the Marina at the moment, people paid extra for high floors with a sea view and there's now a new, taller tower being built right in front that will completely remove this view - this despite wording in their contracts (i know from a friend of a friend) stating that nothing would be built.
It's happened dozens of times all over the place, don't think the sea itself means it can't happen, there's an entire new development being built in JBR at the moment in what was the sea when I lived there as a huge dredging operation has given them new land to build on, all those previously "sea-front" properties now have a bunch of 50 floor towers in front of them.
3a) The same goes for ensuring that developers deliver what was actually sold - an entire subdivision in JVC was sold with individual pools for each house - 13 years later there's still no sign of them, though the developer did eventually put in one small communal pool a few years back!
4) If you buy an apartment with parking, make sure the actual space is noted on the deed - they often aren't.
5) If you're buying a villa then get it thoroughly surveyed by a reputable company - be prepared for massively cut corners and general stupidity (friends took on a new build villa, went to use the washing machine and discovered that all the waste pipes were blocked - turned out to be blocked by cement where builders had poured excess down pipes.
6) whatever you buy, don't expect anything like Western build standards (with one exception, a German development on Emirates Road) it simply doesn't happen out there, places are thrown up, not planned properly etc etc.
7) Legally as far as I am aware you cannot "retire" to the UAE, you must have a visa to live there and that visa will come from your employer - the ultra-wealthy do find ways around this though, maybe by setting up a company and employing themselves - there also used to be a level of property investment that came with a lifetime residents visa as my late boss and his wife had them, I have heard that scheme stopped a decade ago though, so do your homework.
The short version of all this is very much Caveat Emptor. Whilst I love the UAE and felt more at home living there than anywhere else I've ever been, buying there is something not to be undertaken lightly, especially if it's going to involve any kind of mortgage / debt (that's not for this post, but is very important if relevant)
Best of luck.
1) Do not buy off plan - there are thousands of people who lost their money by doing this and then the developer going bust... all those half-finished towers you see in business bay, Dubai marina, JLT & the Palm - they were all fully pre-sold and up to 50% paid for when the developers went bankrupt back in the late noughties. It still happens today. Emaar are probably the only "safe" developer from this perspective.
Those people got nothing back, despite court cases and heaven knows what.
More details here:
https://nuarrualhilal.wordpress.com/2020/04/08/res...
Note that all the laws in the World cannot help if the developer has no money and/or has done a bunk.
2) If you buy a pre-owned property, make sure the seller actually owns it - many tales in the times I lived there of properties being sold by people who had no right to sell them - the Land Registry isn't the most organised and there are a lot of buildings bought as investments by people who never actually see them - a bit of a surprise if you've been living there for a year and the rightful owner turns up (yes this really has happened)
3) If you're buying an apartment because of / paying extra for a view - make damn sure another building cannot be built in front - this is going on with a particular building in the Marina at the moment, people paid extra for high floors with a sea view and there's now a new, taller tower being built right in front that will completely remove this view - this despite wording in their contracts (i know from a friend of a friend) stating that nothing would be built.
It's happened dozens of times all over the place, don't think the sea itself means it can't happen, there's an entire new development being built in JBR at the moment in what was the sea when I lived there as a huge dredging operation has given them new land to build on, all those previously "sea-front" properties now have a bunch of 50 floor towers in front of them.
3a) The same goes for ensuring that developers deliver what was actually sold - an entire subdivision in JVC was sold with individual pools for each house - 13 years later there's still no sign of them, though the developer did eventually put in one small communal pool a few years back!
4) If you buy an apartment with parking, make sure the actual space is noted on the deed - they often aren't.
5) If you're buying a villa then get it thoroughly surveyed by a reputable company - be prepared for massively cut corners and general stupidity (friends took on a new build villa, went to use the washing machine and discovered that all the waste pipes were blocked - turned out to be blocked by cement where builders had poured excess down pipes.
6) whatever you buy, don't expect anything like Western build standards (with one exception, a German development on Emirates Road) it simply doesn't happen out there, places are thrown up, not planned properly etc etc.
7) Legally as far as I am aware you cannot "retire" to the UAE, you must have a visa to live there and that visa will come from your employer - the ultra-wealthy do find ways around this though, maybe by setting up a company and employing themselves - there also used to be a level of property investment that came with a lifetime residents visa as my late boss and his wife had them, I have heard that scheme stopped a decade ago though, so do your homework.
The short version of all this is very much Caveat Emptor. Whilst I love the UAE and felt more at home living there than anywhere else I've ever been, buying there is something not to be undertaken lightly, especially if it's going to involve any kind of mortgage / debt (that's not for this post, but is very important if relevant)
Best of luck.
If you are seriously thinking about it, drop Psychobert of this parish
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?me...
an email, he bought his apartment in the Marina a few years ago now so will also have practical experience.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?me...
an email, he bought his apartment in the Marina a few years ago now so will also have practical experience.
That’s kind of how I feel.
The other thing is, what really fuels growth here ? The more I think about it, the more I think that stuff is built, agents are incentivised to sell it, developers are paid, so more gets built.
There is capital flight here from a lot of countries which keeps fuelling the demand. Also higher energy prices in Europe and other cold regions too. But it seems like it could all just grind to a halt.
Funnily enough I was chatting to a Spanish guy here on New Year’s Eve who said he was planning to move from Spain because crime was going out of control there - in his opinion.
Another Brit said he was moving out for similar reasons - you can walk around here at night safely. But is it a just a huge bubble that is due to burst ? I suppose you really need a crystal ball for that ?
The other thing is, what really fuels growth here ? The more I think about it, the more I think that stuff is built, agents are incentivised to sell it, developers are paid, so more gets built.
There is capital flight here from a lot of countries which keeps fuelling the demand. Also higher energy prices in Europe and other cold regions too. But it seems like it could all just grind to a halt.
Funnily enough I was chatting to a Spanish guy here on New Year’s Eve who said he was planning to move from Spain because crime was going out of control there - in his opinion.
Another Brit said he was moving out for similar reasons - you can walk around here at night safely. But is it a just a huge bubble that is due to burst ? I suppose you really need a crystal ball for that ?
Interesting you mention crime.
I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
swanseaboydan said:
That’s kind of how I feel.
The other thing is, what really fuels growth here ? The more I think about it, the more I think that stuff is built, agents are incentivised to sell it, developers are paid, so more gets built.
There is capital flight here from a lot of countries which keeps fuelling the demand. Also higher energy prices in Europe and other cold regions too. But it seems like it could all just grind to a halt.
Funnily enough I was chatting to a Spanish guy here on New Year’s Eve who said he was planning to move from Spain because crime was going out of control there - in his opinion.
Another Brit said he was moving out for similar reasons - you can walk around here at night safely. But is it a just a huge bubble that is due to burst ? I suppose you really need a crystal ball for that ?
I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there... In all the time I lived there (and the 25+ return trips since) it's always felt to me like Dubai real estate is a glorified ponzi scheme - you only have to look at most of the towers at night to see how few apartments are actually lived in full-time (unless you go cheap end, where hot-bedding is still commonplace)The other thing is, what really fuels growth here ? The more I think about it, the more I think that stuff is built, agents are incentivised to sell it, developers are paid, so more gets built.
There is capital flight here from a lot of countries which keeps fuelling the demand. Also higher energy prices in Europe and other cold regions too. But it seems like it could all just grind to a halt.
Funnily enough I was chatting to a Spanish guy here on New Year’s Eve who said he was planning to move from Spain because crime was going out of control there - in his opinion.
Another Brit said he was moving out for similar reasons - you can walk around here at night safely. But is it a just a huge bubble that is due to burst ? I suppose you really need a crystal ball for that ?
I looked at buying back in 2013, but only because my housing allowance would have paid for the villa outright in less than 5 years and I had long-term plans to stay. In the end all the fees and hassle involved made me think again (thankfully)
The biggest issue is what happens if (when) it does all grind to a halt again, last time many developers ran away and thousands lost their shirts (there are a lot of forums dedicated to this, the link I posted was just the first one I found) although there are now laws that are supposed to stop this, I know first-hand that laws aren't worth the ink they're written with if all the Directors have done a bunk and there's no cash left (I'm out £338,000 at the moment though it's non property related)
sjc said:
Interesting you mention crime.
I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
This is absolutely the biggest plus point of the region. It's simply unrecognisable when compared to an average British city / night out and one of the main reasons I feel so at home there. Crime simply isn't an issue (unless you're very unlucky) and the levels of customer service put even the USA to shame (I closed my UAE bank account on my trip last month - at 11pm at a bank with full counter service - compared to my UK bank (10-2, 3 days a week) there's simply no comparison.I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
sjc said:
Interesting you mention crime.
I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
Funnily enough (and also seeing Swanseaboys post above yours), I’ve just experienced exactly the same……but in Spain. I’ve done Dubai a few times and now on my second visit to Abu Dhabi over New Year.Literally thousands of youngsters/people on the streets between 11.30-12.30 NYE and it was a pleasure to see everyone enjoying themselves with no sign of alcohol abuse,drugs,fighting,girls falling out their dresses,no one being sick,vandalising cars etc etc.
Makes you think for sure.
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