The Brexit vote - are you in or out?
Discussion
IF Britain quits the European Union it wont be the same country back in its old familiar place. It will be a new, strange country in an unfamiliar place.
For foreigners, it would be less easygoing, more suspicious and more bureaucratic for work and travel.
For its own citizens, it will become a less regulated, more unequal society. For the young, as European colour drains away, it could come to seem a dim and stifling place that anyone with imagination would want to escape.
Isolation brings out the worst in Britain.
For foreigners, it would be less easygoing, more suspicious and more bureaucratic for work and travel.
For its own citizens, it will become a less regulated, more unequal society. For the young, as European colour drains away, it could come to seem a dim and stifling place that anyone with imagination would want to escape.
Isolation brings out the worst in Britain.
If you vote to stay in you are essentially voting to say you don't want any future vote to count for anything.
We will get shafted by the EU who know we are locked in and our destiny and any significant decisions on our future will be given over to people we haven't elected.
The EU is a basket case by virtually every measure. The only people who have done well are those countries who were on their arse and Germany.
Look at the key EU nations - with a few exceptions they are all basket cases. Look at the GDP and % of unemployed of Greece/France/Spain. Speak to people in those countries about their quality of life about their future. Who is going to be left to support those countries in this economic union?
The EU still hasn't got any decent trading agreements with any of the major developing economies and none have the history and relationships with them that we had/have.
The argument that things will be more stable if we stay is a red herring. There will be some short term instability if we leave but over time taking control of your own destiny has to be a better decision.
There are 2 million migrants in Germany waiting for their papers - where do you think they will be heading once they are legal? Our published net migration figures are nearly 4 times what was predicted and that was before the current problems in the world.
We will get shafted by the EU who know we are locked in and our destiny and any significant decisions on our future will be given over to people we haven't elected.
The EU is a basket case by virtually every measure. The only people who have done well are those countries who were on their arse and Germany.
Look at the key EU nations - with a few exceptions they are all basket cases. Look at the GDP and % of unemployed of Greece/France/Spain. Speak to people in those countries about their quality of life about their future. Who is going to be left to support those countries in this economic union?
The EU still hasn't got any decent trading agreements with any of the major developing economies and none have the history and relationships with them that we had/have.
The argument that things will be more stable if we stay is a red herring. There will be some short term instability if we leave but over time taking control of your own destiny has to be a better decision.
There are 2 million migrants in Germany waiting for their papers - where do you think they will be heading once they are legal? Our published net migration figures are nearly 4 times what was predicted and that was before the current problems in the world.
ex1 said:
If you vote to stay in you are essentially voting to say you don't want any future vote to count for anything.
that's an extremely oversimplistic view. also basing your argument around economic migrancy is rather ironic for this forum.i really can't see much changing economically if the vote is to leave. there'll be a wobble, the pound will find its new level, and things will carry on apace. i do agree with 6th that the general tone of the country will change and imo that will not be for the better.
shirt said:
that's an extremely oversimplistic view. also basing your argument around economic migrancy is rather ironic for this forum.
i really can't see much changing economically if the vote is to leave. there'll be a wobble, the pound will find its new level, and things will carry on apace. i do agree with 6th that the general tone of the country will change and imo that will not be for the better.
My argument isn't based around economic migrancy. Its based on the fact that I think as the 5th largest economy in the world we would have a better chance to proposer without having to carry the many economic basket cases that make up the bulk of the EU.i really can't see much changing economically if the vote is to leave. there'll be a wobble, the pound will find its new level, and things will carry on apace. i do agree with 6th that the general tone of the country will change and imo that will not be for the better.
Mass economic migrancy is simply evidence that the current club rules aren't working.
The EU simply hasn't worked for us. Just over 40% of our exports at within the EU - that is lower than virtually any other EU member state. Nearly 55% of our Imports are from within the EU and for the privilege of being able to sell 40% of our stuff and buy 55% of our stuff it costs us £1600 a year per person. Its madness, it makes no economic sense.
We export more in services to countries outside the EU than virtually all the other EU members combined!
There is no logical reason to stay in a trading club based on what we already know.
If it was migrancy then the people moving would be ONLY EU CITIZENS.
As it is at the moment there are hundreds of thousands from Mostly North African and Central African countries.
That is not economic migration through the EU.
If they are refugees then they should register and stay in the first safe country they come to.
Free movement of people was for EU citizens, seems like its anyone who can make landfall somewhere then we all look after them.
Not a good situation.
As it is at the moment there are hundreds of thousands from Mostly North African and Central African countries.
That is not economic migration through the EU.
If they are refugees then they should register and stay in the first safe country they come to.
Free movement of people was for EU citizens, seems like its anyone who can make landfall somewhere then we all look after them.
Not a good situation.
It's interesting to see the outcome, now that a month or so has gone by since the vote. Of course nothing's really happened, except for some bitter words from the EU establishment figures and the doom monger UK press. I guess the next big step will be Article 50 being declared (unless they find an excuse not to).
The pound is still down...but the FTSE (both 100 and 250) are back up at the levels they were.
I voted leave...and I was genuinely surprised when I woke up on 24th to find that we'd voted out. My reasons weren't immigration or the money we contribute. Purely the political union and it's civil service (the Commission) is unnecessary and an opaque bureaucracy full of power crazed, failed politicians like our own Kinnocks and Mandelsons. Why do we need it? Why do we need an EU parliament, anthem, military, flag etc? I don't believe we do. It just needs to be a trade and consumer standards body. Nothing more. I sincerely hope that the Dutch and the French and other natios for whom the Euro has been an absolute disaster, will follow suit in the coming years. And I look forward to Juncker and his ilk being out of a job.
The pound is still down...but the FTSE (both 100 and 250) are back up at the levels they were.
I voted leave...and I was genuinely surprised when I woke up on 24th to find that we'd voted out. My reasons weren't immigration or the money we contribute. Purely the political union and it's civil service (the Commission) is unnecessary and an opaque bureaucracy full of power crazed, failed politicians like our own Kinnocks and Mandelsons. Why do we need it? Why do we need an EU parliament, anthem, military, flag etc? I don't believe we do. It just needs to be a trade and consumer standards body. Nothing more. I sincerely hope that the Dutch and the French and other natios for whom the Euro has been an absolute disaster, will follow suit in the coming years. And I look forward to Juncker and his ilk being out of a job.
i find it amusing that people are surprised that one of the options on the ballot was the eventual outcome. it was always going to be a close run thing and like anything political was not campaigned on the real issues or using anything approaching facts.
i am surprised dave didn't table a third option early on and campaign on fact not emotion - stay but with a mandate to introduce changes to the EU mandate, with a second simple in/out vote triggered after X years of no progress.
i wanted to stay but am not overly gutted about the whole affair if it is used as a platform for actual real and radical change. this could be a history defining moment where british politics is changed for the better. given the shock to the EU system and the 4 years of wacko crazy the US is about to enter we could benefit from some shrewd and ballsy maneuvering
i just know that the reality is that nothing much at all will happen other than some hand wringing and further distance from our european neighbours whilst uk trade and industry sinks further into the mire.radical politics with theresa may in charge, there are not enough f
ks in FFS to describe that one i'm afraid.
anyhow, my mortgage rate just went down, it costs me 15% less to service the payments than a year ago and a lister bell kit is also £3k less than it was. its a bingo.
i am surprised dave didn't table a third option early on and campaign on fact not emotion - stay but with a mandate to introduce changes to the EU mandate, with a second simple in/out vote triggered after X years of no progress.
i wanted to stay but am not overly gutted about the whole affair if it is used as a platform for actual real and radical change. this could be a history defining moment where british politics is changed for the better. given the shock to the EU system and the 4 years of wacko crazy the US is about to enter we could benefit from some shrewd and ballsy maneuvering
i just know that the reality is that nothing much at all will happen other than some hand wringing and further distance from our european neighbours whilst uk trade and industry sinks further into the mire.radical politics with theresa may in charge, there are not enough f
ks in FFS to describe that one i'm afraid.anyhow, my mortgage rate just went down, it costs me 15% less to service the payments than a year ago and a lister bell kit is also £3k less than it was. its a bingo.
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