its that time of year again
Discussion
Just read this back. Pretty long, apologies in advance!
Please don't quote the whole post, I may well delete it once I know what's what.
Rent negotiation time, whoop!
You might remember this from last year:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If not, then the back story in a nutshell is:
Moved in 2 yrs ago. My mate was moving out and said I was interested. I dealt with the landlord direct, no agency, and the tenancy agreement was one of the blue forms you get for 2dhs from the newsagents with a separate set of terms & conditions [damage, notice period etc.] which I drew up. For this first contract, both parties signed with a 3rd party witness [might've been Jase, can't remember exactly].
After the palaver of the linked thread, I renewed last year at the 11th hour, literally. He came round 2 days before the end of the tenancy [he lives in Pakistan] and wanted to put the rent up 10%. I told him that under Ejari he could only put it up by 5%, but even then he had to give me 3mths notice of doing so. In the end we agreed to exactly the same deal as the year before [i.e. no increase] and I wrote the contract again. This time there was no 3rd party witness to the contrac.
Now, I haven’t registered the contract with Ejari and I doubt he has either. I do realise I should have after the last one but really wasn't in the best frame of mind this time last year and drinking to forget made my affaird slightly lax.
So far, so good? Ok then:
Today he was emailing me about the flat, which I replied to and said that I want to stay for another year. I mentioned that the Ejari calculator says max increase is 15% which I said I am happy to pay. I also said this will likely be my last year in Dubai so if he wants to serve me 12mths notice to quit that'd be ok with me.
His reply then mentioned all the trouble in his home country [Pakistan, not seen owt on the news] and made overtones that he wants me out at the end of the tenancy so he can move his family over. He’s also asking whether I paid the last cheque, which I deposited as cash in April FFS [I have a receipt in the flat].
So, my questions are:
- Does it matter that I haven’t registered with Ejari? I thought it’s the landlord’s responsibility to do so? If we end up in arbitration will this go against me or him?
- Does it matter that I have only given 2 mths written notice to stay [current deal ends on 26th October, so not even 2 calendar months] and not 3 as per ejari?
- Does it matter that he has done the same in terms of wanting me out? Isn’t it 12 mths?
- Can he actually get me out at the end of October?
- Basically, what can I do and who’s side is the law on?
I know that if he says he wants to move in as a ploy to get me out and then rents it out he’s in the sh*t and gets a massive fine, but prob. not the best opening gambit eh?
I want to stay and have told him it’ll be my last year. I can go above a 15% rise as I’m paying 100k for a 2 bed in JBR which go for a lot more. However I can’t pay market rate that’s crazy money, 120k would be the top limit.
I sublet a room and have a cat, I can get rid of all evidence of both these things before he comes round. He was aware of previous subletting [before Sam left me, sob] and the cat and was cool with both, but maybe best to strengthen my position.
Doing my nut in as I’m still stuck in this s
thole of a country for another couple of weeks and then don’t much fancy coming back and having to find somewhere else to live. Just want to stay put and get him off my case, but the lack of a proper contract and Ejari registration makes me feel ill at ease. Pretty sure the family scenario is bulls
t, he moaned like hell at the last renewal when he couldn't up the rent and said then that he wanted his son to move in this year, yet no notice given. Also thread above attests to him generally ducking and diving.Haven’t replied to his email yet. Want to tell him to get tae fu*k the wide-o cu*t and then stick the nut on him, but mebbes I’ve been reading too much Irvine Welsh this trip. Feel I should just say we can work something out and wait til I get back, but need to know what sort of poker hand I hold before working out how to play the cards.
Have sent the above pretty much verbatim to a mate who's OH works for a property law firm, but over to the floor for [hopefully] qualified opinion over heresay.
Mike - I know you have contacts in this area, if you could send anyone who would know a link to this thread I will stand you a few beers. As I wrote the T&C's to the contract I prob have them on my hard drive with me if anyone needs to read them.
Edited by shirt on Friday 5th September 23:32
- Does it matter that I haven’t registered with Ejari? I thought it’s the landlord’s responsibility to do so? If we end up in arbitration will this go against me or him?
It is his responsibility to do this, but it can be done by yourself also. If its not done I do not believe that should affect your legal rights. It probably needs to be done before you take a case to the rent committee though
- Does it matter that I have only given 2 mths written notice to stay [current deal ends on 26th October, so not even 2 calendar months] and not 3 as per ejari?
All contracts are actually for an indefinite period, regardless of the term mentioned in it. there is a 3 month notice period to change any of the terms and conditions, which is applicable to both parties otherwise the same T&Cs roll over another year. unless of course both parties agree that 2 months is ok.
- Does it matter that he has done the same in terms of wanting me out? Isn’t it 12 mths?
If he actually wants you out, it needs to be 12 months notice served in a specific legal format (not just an email etc), and the only valid reasons he has are 1) wants to sell, 2) wants to live there, or 3) wants to renovate (I think). If he then tries to put it back no the rental market (assuming it was ejari registered!) then RERA will ban him from doing so legally. He needs to provide some proof to RERA that he is intending to do one of the 3 options.
- Can he actually get me out at the end of October?
No he can not legally get you out at all unless via the above 12 month process.Maybe safer to register with ejari asap and tell the landlord you will raise a case with the Rent Committee, as such a request is illegal.
- Basically, what can I do and who’s side is the law on?
The Law is always on the renters side unless you breached the T&C
There is some good info on these issues here, which are the FAQ from the weekly property and legal show..good luck!
http://www.dubaieye1038.com/legal-questions/
It is his responsibility to do this, but it can be done by yourself also. If its not done I do not believe that should affect your legal rights. It probably needs to be done before you take a case to the rent committee though
- Does it matter that I have only given 2 mths written notice to stay [current deal ends on 26th October, so not even 2 calendar months] and not 3 as per ejari?
All contracts are actually for an indefinite period, regardless of the term mentioned in it. there is a 3 month notice period to change any of the terms and conditions, which is applicable to both parties otherwise the same T&Cs roll over another year. unless of course both parties agree that 2 months is ok.
- Does it matter that he has done the same in terms of wanting me out? Isn’t it 12 mths?
If he actually wants you out, it needs to be 12 months notice served in a specific legal format (not just an email etc), and the only valid reasons he has are 1) wants to sell, 2) wants to live there, or 3) wants to renovate (I think). If he then tries to put it back no the rental market (assuming it was ejari registered!) then RERA will ban him from doing so legally. He needs to provide some proof to RERA that he is intending to do one of the 3 options.
- Can he actually get me out at the end of October?
No he can not legally get you out at all unless via the above 12 month process.Maybe safer to register with ejari asap and tell the landlord you will raise a case with the Rent Committee, as such a request is illegal.
- Basically, what can I do and who’s side is the law on?
The Law is always on the renters side unless you breached the T&C
There is some good info on these issues here, which are the FAQ from the weekly property and legal show..good luck!
http://www.dubaieye1038.com/legal-questions/
Edited by ezah on Saturday 6th September 02:59
Good morning from Bermuda!
I'd register it with Ejari asap tbh, then the above (great) post from Ezah applies with one small addition, if he does intend to move his next of kin in that is also a valid reason for eviction.
The method of notice of that eviction (registered mail or notarised by the court) still applies and he must also prove if asked that he has nowhere else he can move them to.
I always take the responsibility of doing Ejari, the laws are sop heavily weighted in favour of the tenant when its done I don't know why any landlord would do it!
Its really easy to do, costs about 160 dhs, you need yours and his pp copy, utitlity bill, title deed (or affection plan if he hasn't got one) and a copy of the contract.
You're actually doing the rest of JBR a favour if you do it as well, the index is based off registered contracts.
I think that covers it but I'm peering through a cloud of Rum so will check again later once I've had 35264 coffees and bacon butty.
I'd register it with Ejari asap tbh, then the above (great) post from Ezah applies with one small addition, if he does intend to move his next of kin in that is also a valid reason for eviction.
The method of notice of that eviction (registered mail or notarised by the court) still applies and he must also prove if asked that he has nowhere else he can move them to.
I always take the responsibility of doing Ejari, the laws are sop heavily weighted in favour of the tenant when its done I don't know why any landlord would do it!
Its really easy to do, costs about 160 dhs, you need yours and his pp copy, utitlity bill, title deed (or affection plan if he hasn't got one) and a copy of the contract.
You're actually doing the rest of JBR a favour if you do it as well, the index is based off registered contracts.
I think that covers it but I'm peering through a cloud of Rum so will check again later once I've had 35264 coffees and bacon butty.
thanks for that ezah, very helpful and settling post.
any ideas as to how to convince my landlord to either register with ejari [he has my passport copy] or to get him to send me a copy of the deed in order to do it myself? can't see him helping me out as it weakens his position.
will give it 24hrs thought and ping him an email. nothing provocative, just that i can negotiate on rent but need a resolution before the end of the week/10days. play it by ear, if he gets arsey i can start feeding him the facts.
any ideas as to how to convince my landlord to either register with ejari [he has my passport copy] or to get him to send me a copy of the deed in order to do it myself? can't see him helping me out as it weakens his position.
will give it 24hrs thought and ping him an email. nothing provocative, just that i can negotiate on rent but need a resolution before the end of the week/10days. play it by ear, if he gets arsey i can start feeding him the facts.
Like most landlords, he probably wont know the rules and is maybe badly informed by clueless agents.
But If he really wants to get you out, or plans on raising any case with RERA (rent increase etc), it will need to be Ejari registered anyway. The fact that he hasn't done so would indicate he is ignorant or doesn't actually plan to take any action. That doesn't help you much though.
Nevertheless, it would be in your best interest to get it registered, so why not tell him you need the Ejari copy for your work/bank loan etc and tell him you don't mind to do it yourself/at your cost, but need his docs. If that doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps write to RERA informing that the landlord is refusing to register and ask for advice on the matter. At least then you may have something in writing from them to wave at the landlord if he persists with this termination threat.
Never having been in this position myself though, I am not 100% on how you can best handle this. Last time I rented there was no Ejari, and I was ignorant of my rights and just gave in to a similar request I got from my landlord. I do wish I hadn't though, as it would have made life so much easier!
Good luck
But If he really wants to get you out, or plans on raising any case with RERA (rent increase etc), it will need to be Ejari registered anyway. The fact that he hasn't done so would indicate he is ignorant or doesn't actually plan to take any action. That doesn't help you much though.
Nevertheless, it would be in your best interest to get it registered, so why not tell him you need the Ejari copy for your work/bank loan etc and tell him you don't mind to do it yourself/at your cost, but need his docs. If that doesn't get you anywhere, perhaps write to RERA informing that the landlord is refusing to register and ask for advice on the matter. At least then you may have something in writing from them to wave at the landlord if he persists with this termination threat.
Never having been in this position myself though, I am not 100% on how you can best handle this. Last time I rented there was no Ejari, and I was ignorant of my rights and just gave in to a similar request I got from my landlord. I do wish I hadn't though, as it would have made life so much easier!
Good luck
shirt said:
I mentioned that the Ejari calculator says max increase is 15% which I said I am happy to pay.
Wow! Volunteering to pay the 15% increase! Going against your Yorkshire roots there.Just pay him the same again, he hasn't got a leg to stand on.
Don't need the landlords deeds to get the Ejari, just the tenancy contract and a dewa bill, passport blah blah. Simple to do, did mine at the Jumaraih Post office on Al Wasl. Handy because you need the Ejari Cert for all sorts of random stuff these days.
i'm back in dubai. i have an extremely tidy flat and office but no tenancy contract. i have found landlord's passport copy, copy of the ownership papers, my cotnract from 2012, the terms and conditions [signed] for this year but not the blue contract form. fked if i know where it is.
the t&c's state i need to give him 60days notice to the end date if i intend to stay, which i did. it says he must give me 90days if he intends to put the rent up. i;ve 5wks til termination and still haven't discussed figures with him....
spending this week making sure i'm squeaky clean - doing maintenance, cleaning and renewing my alcohol licence [i have quite a collection he has commented on, don't want to give him any opportunity to cause me trouble].
i requested the ejari cert. by telling him i need it for a loan. i'll request again today. if no response then i'll contact ejari telling them the story to date and see what their response is.
luckily we have very good PRO's and legal team at work. they pulled me out of africa to come back and sort this so i have their backing should it be needed.
ked if i know where it is. the t&c's state i need to give him 60days notice to the end date if i intend to stay, which i did. it says he must give me 90days if he intends to put the rent up. i;ve 5wks til termination and still haven't discussed figures with him....
spending this week making sure i'm squeaky clean - doing maintenance, cleaning and renewing my alcohol licence [i have quite a collection he has commented on, don't want to give him any opportunity to cause me trouble].
i requested the ejari cert. by telling him i need it for a loan. i'll request again today. if no response then i'll contact ejari telling them the story to date and see what their response is.
luckily we have very good PRO's and legal team at work. they pulled me out of africa to come back and sort this so i have their backing should it be needed.
A friend was down the Muncipality on Sunday as the guys that own his building in TECOM are being s, trying to increase rent inside the 90 days and also make it 1 cheque. I drafted the 'please fk off and die in a nice way' email he sent back to them quoting all relevant laws and they've gone quiet
He took all docs and correspondance down with him (his legal guy at work told him where to go), paid a nominal fee (160 I think) and they told him to come back yesterday with the first (of 4) payments for the year in cash, plus the other 3 cheques and they will deal with it from there, problem solved.
He has Ejari though, are you missing something to be able to do it yourself?
s, trying to increase rent inside the 90 days and also make it 1 cheque. I drafted the 'please fk off and die in a nice way' email he sent back to them quoting all relevant laws and they've gone quietHe took all docs and correspondance down with him (his legal guy at work told him where to go), paid a nominal fee (160 I think) and they told him to come back yesterday with the first (of 4) payments for the year in cash, plus the other 3 cheques and they will deal with it from there, problem solved.
He has Ejari though, are you missing something to be able to do it yourself?
yes, missing the blue tenancy agreement. i have everything else including the landlord's passprt copy, deeds, and the terms and conditions of rental signed and dated/witnessed. just can;t find the bloody contract! i know i had it earlier in the year when i needed a new car park swipe card but cannot find it anywhere. thrown another bin bag of crap out from my desk draws today and the last place it might be is in my car [at the garage].
i might be able to get a photocopy of the contract from building services office.
i might be able to get a photocopy of the contract from building services office.
apologies for the soapstoryesque updates today but i;ve now had 2 bits of good luck.
no.1, my cycling shoes arrived and they fit perfectly.
no.2, the tenancy contract was in the glovebox of my car. its been at the garage and i;ve been putting off collecting it so i could focus on finding the contract!
ah well, at least my house and office are super organised now…
jumeirah post office first thing in the morning
no.1, my cycling shoes arrived and they fit perfectly.
no.2, the tenancy contract was in the glovebox of my car. its been at the garage and i;ve been putting off collecting it so i could focus on finding the contract!
ah well, at least my house and office are super organised now…
jumeirah post office first thing in the morning
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