Discovery 1, TDI or V8?

[MattMoore]

Afternoon all,

I've been wanting to get a winter AWD vehicle, and after lots of deliberation have decided that a Discovery 1 best suits my needs.
I've read a number of buying guides and found out where the rot should be etc etc but the one problem I am having is which engine!
The V8 is 170 a year cheaper to insure than the tdi, and I've always fancied a V8 of some sort, but I'm slightly concerned about the fuel economy. Although the extra tesco points will be handy for a new watch :lol:
Which of these engines is the best choice?

Matt

[cpas]

I'm surprised that the V8 is not more to insure than the TDi, as it has the ability to get you into trouble far quicker.
Assuming an estimated 12mpg for the V8 and 25mpg for the TDi, every 100 miles will cost you £41 in the V8 or £20 in the TDi assuming £5 per gallon. Therefore every 1000 miles will cost £210 more, and an annual 5000 miles will cost you £1050, plus all the associated extra costs at servicing (8 leads, 8 spark plugs etc).
Also, I prefer the later Disco 1 (300TDi shape rather than 200 TDi shape) as they seem to handle better and have better interiors.
My last 300TDi would sit at 80mph on the motorway, but I wouldn't have wanted to be in it at a much higher speed - they are 2 1/4 tonnes and feel top heavy. OK, acceleration is not that good, but you soon get used to that.
Someone will be along in a minute to dispute all that I have said above, but this is my opinion

[Rum Runner]

V8 Every time. Its easy to repair and live with...very simple unit. Go for multipoint LPG with torpedo tanks under the sills if poss.
Lighter than TDI and works out the same if not better when you convert the mileage back to £.
Remember the old RV8 is very simple on Lucas Injection same a TVR. No timing belts etc.
Manual as well, less to go wrong again.

Edited by Rum Runner on Monday 22 November 21:19

[300bhp/ton]

MattMoore said:

Afternoon all,

I've been wanting to get a winter AWD vehicle, and after lots of deliberation have decided that a Discovery 1 best suits my needs.
I've read a number of buying guides and found out where the rot should be etc etc but the one problem I am having is which engine!
The V8 is 170 a year cheaper to insure than the tdi, and I've always fancied a V8 of some sort, but I'm slightly concerned about the fuel economy. Although the extra tesco points will be handy for a new watch :lol:
Which of these engines is the best choice?

Matt

IMO there isn't a best choice. They are both good and I have one of each!!

Most RV8's will be auto's, which is good if you want an auto, but less fun and sporty. Manual V8's are rare.

By contrast most Tdi's will be manual and auto's of these are pretty rare too. An auto Tdi will not go as well as a manual. Air con also affects performance more so.

[MattMoore]

Thanks for all the info so far lads, think I'm in exactly the same spot still it is going to be the daily drive, which is a 60 mile round trip so I'm thinking the TDi is going to be best. Next question is on which spec is the one to go for? Really fancy an ES with heated screens and heated seats with winter coming, but a little wary as I'm not paying top money, there's a lot of electrickery to go wrong, any ideas?

[Jimmyarm]

My '96 300tdi 'Commercial' (3 door with no back windows essentially) returns a steady 28mpg at the moment which is a mix of motorway etc. Still does that when loaded up with logs

The 300tdi engine is ridiculously simple, iirc its still used by the military in various applications because of this and its longevity (mines on 192k and counting).

Make sure you give anything you look at a thorough test drive and if possible take someone that knows something about them with you or at least a 'mechanic' even if an amateur. A second pair of eyes is invaluable.

Having come from a Cooper S, there is something to be said for living life in the slow lane

[Rum Runner]

No TDI the same if not worse on fuel than LPG cost wise, and will cost much more to maintain..
Lots more manual V8's in Mk1 format not as many in Mk2.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 19:18

[300bhp/ton]

Rum Runner said:

No TDI the same if not worse on fuel than LPG cost wise, and will cost much more to maintain..
Lots more manual V8's in Mk1 format not as many in Mk2.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 19:18

How exactly does a Tdi cost a lot more to maintain

[300bhp/ton]

MattMoore said:

Thanks for all the info so far lads, think I'm in exactly the same spot still it is going to be the daily drive, which is a 60 mile round trip so I'm thinking the TDi is going to be best. Next question is on which spec is the one to go for? Really fancy an ES with heated screens and heated seats with winter coming, but a little wary as I'm not paying top money, there's a lot of electrickery to go wrong, any ideas?

Is it going to be a keeper?

V8 can do 16mpg on a run, but 12-15mpg is quite likely in normal use. To be fair you might see 18mpg+ with a manual if you behave. On LPG it'll be cheaper per mile but not quite double the mpg. Suspect 20-25mpg on LPG is realistic.

Tdi's, well mine can and will do 19mpg , but as anorm they will do more like 24-26mpg. 30-32mpg is possible if you drive steady too. They will also run on veg oil, although not so recommended when cold in winter.

Tdi also quite tunable and IMO runs nicer than a stock V8. V8 does sound better though and is more refined and quieter.

[Rum Runner]

300bhp/ton said:

Rum Runner said:

No TDI the same if not worse on fuel than LPG cost wise, and will cost much more to maintain..
Lots more manual V8's in Mk1 format not as many in Mk2.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 19:18

How exactly does a Tdi cost a lot more to maintain

Ok for one when a TDI gets old you have potential of Turbo / Injector pump / Timing belt failure issues amongst other things, it is a much more complex engine than the RV8 of that period which is simple and robust. No timing belt no turbo no expensive injector pump and running low compression ratio with minimum external plumbing / wiring. These car are now getting on and when they go wrong the RV8 is cheap / easy to deal with and because of the sports car and kit car market the engine parts availability is good and likely to be so for some while, plus its not LR only parts counter material.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 23:07

[MattMoore]

I am intending to keep it for a while yes, I'm hoping its going to be the first rung on the LR ladder. I've come up with some ideas to use it for work instead of buying a new van soon by making use of a custom trailer.
I think the TDI will be best for my needs, now to decide on which spec, any useful advice on that front?

[300bhp/ton]

MattMoore said:

I am intending to keep it for a while yes, I'm hoping its going to be the first rung on the LR ladder. I've come up with some ideas to use it for work instead of buying a new van soon by making use of a custom trailer.
I think the TDI will be best for my needs, now to decide on which spec, any useful advice on that front?

Heated front screen is fab, although you can have one fitted if it doesn't have one.

And I suppose in this price range you might as well get as good a spec as you can, it probably won't cost anymore in reality. Although I think the options list is a little limited.

Air con is nice, but many leak, it will also hamper performance a bit (much more noticeable in a Tdi). And will hurt mpg slightly (more noticeable with a V8).

Leather. Personally I sort of prefer cloth myself. Land Rover leather also isn't Jaguar standard. Electric seats are quite a nice option, although switches get gunky and often stop working. Central locking and electric windows can also be nice too.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 24th November 08:30

[300bhp/ton]

Rum Runner said:

300bhp/ton said:

Rum Runner said:

No TDI the same if not worse on fuel than LPG cost wise, and will cost much more to maintain..
Lots more manual V8's in Mk1 format not as many in Mk2.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 19:18

How exactly does a Tdi cost a lot more to maintain

Ok for one when a TDI gets old you have potential of Turbo / Injector pump / Timing belt failure issues amongst other things, it is a much more complex engine than the RV8 of that period which is simple and robust. No timing belt no turbo no expensive injector pump and running low compression ratio with minimum external plumbing / wiring. These car are now getting on and when they go wrong the RV8 is cheap / easy to deal with and because of the sports car and kit car market the engine parts availability is good and likely to be so for some while, plus its not LR only parts counter material.

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 23 November 23:07

I think that's a little hard and unfair on the Tdi's tbh.

They are generally pretty stout motors and very hassle free. Turbo's and injector pumps don't have a habit or reputation of failing either. True enough about cam belts, but aren't they like every 70,000 miles, so hardly an annual affair.

On the plus side the Tdi is still a simple push rod OHV engine. It has no electronics (bar a few last of the line 300Tdi Disco's) And has proven reliable. I've also not heard of injector trouble either, its not as if the Tdi is one of these fancy super high pressure common rail engines that is fully ECU controlled with DOHC and a variable nozzle turbo.

And besides, you can buy a complete working Tdi engine off eBay for £300-350 these days too should you need to.

As said above, I have a RV8 and a Tdi, so I'm not going to slag either off. RV8's are great motors too, although they do wear cam and followers and any of this age probably want both refreshing. The EFI system and MAF also aren't the greatest and can cause issues too.

In terms of regualr servicing, well that's 8 plugs, 8 leads and more oil..... get the picture


I think either will/can do the job, but I certainly wouldn't rule out a Tdi on reliability or maintenance costs, as IMO they are simply issues that don't exist.


MPG vs refinement and auto vs manual are far more likely reasons to pick one over the other.

[cpas]

300bhp/ton said:

MattMoore said:

I am intending to keep it for a while yes, I'm hoping its going to be the first rung on the LR ladder. I've come up with some ideas to use it for work instead of buying a new van soon by making use of a custom trailer.
I think the TDI will be best for my needs, now to decide on which spec, any useful advice on that front?

Heated front screen is fab, although you can have one fitted if it doesn't have one.

And I suppose in this price range you might as well get as good a spec as you can, it probably won't cost anymore in reality. Although I think the options list is a little limited.

Air con is nice, but many leak, it will also hamper performance a bit (much more noticeable in a Tdi). And will hurt mpg slightly (more noticeable with a V8).

Leather. Personally I sort of prefer cloth myself. Land Rover leather also isn't Jaguar standard. Electric seats are quite a nice option, although switches get gunky and often stop working. Central locking and electric windows can also be nice too.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 24th November 08:30

I think they all have central locking and 4x electric windows, even basic spec. All have power steering but only the really top spec have full leather or ABS. Three years ago I sold a 50th Anniversary which had full cream leather, air conditioning and a heated front screen. I wish I'd kept it now as I can't find anything near as good

[300bhp/ton]

cpas said:

300bhp/ton said:

MattMoore said:

I am intending to keep it for a while yes, I'm hoping its going to be the first rung on the LR ladder. I've come up with some ideas to use it for work instead of buying a new van soon by making use of a custom trailer.
I think the TDI will be best for my needs, now to decide on which spec, any useful advice on that front?

Heated front screen is fab, although you can have one fitted if it doesn't have one.

And I suppose in this price range you might as well get as good a spec as you can, it probably won't cost anymore in reality. Although I think the options list is a little limited.

Air con is nice, but many leak, it will also hamper performance a bit (much more noticeable in a Tdi). And will hurt mpg slightly (more noticeable with a V8).

Leather. Personally I sort of prefer cloth myself. Land Rover leather also isn't Jaguar standard. Electric seats are quite a nice option, although switches get gunky and often stop working. Central locking and electric windows can also be nice too.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 24th November 08:30

I think they all have central locking and 4x electric windows, even basic spec. All have power steering but only the really top spec have full leather or ABS. Three years ago I sold a 50th Anniversary which had full cream leather, air conditioning and a heated front screen. I wish I'd kept it now as I can't find anything near as good

It depends which model they are looking at. There were 3 and 5 door bodies and also a facelift in around 93'ish when the 300Tdi replaced the 200Tdi and the 3.9 EFI replaced the 3.5 EFI. New front (grill, headlights, indicators and door mirrors) and also a new interior.

This also saw the swap to the R380 5 speed instead of the LT77. I think at this time they also went to the 24 spline axles over the older 10 spline ones.

Earlier 200 models can certainly be had without electric windows or central locking as mine was one such example.

[jonno990]

I wouldn't know which engine to go for but I seem to remember a couple of people having expensive transmission problems.
Transfer box maybe?

[300bhp/ton]

jonno990 said:

I wouldn't know which engine to go for but I seem to remember a couple of people having expensive transmission problems.
Transfer box maybe?

Might be, although the LT230 is normally pretty stout unless something else has caused it to fail for a non related issue.

I know there are a few guys using stock LT230's behind 450hp race engines in certain other parts of the world.

[MattMoore]

Thanks for all of the useful advice. I'm hopefully going to view (and maybe buy) a 1997 ES at the weekend. Just need to make a check list of what to look out for. So far I'm aware of:
Boot floor rust
Inner front wing rust
Out cill rust under plastic covers
Damage to diff casings
dash electrics
Chassis rail rust

I'm sure there is other things I have missed, any tips here?

[Hooli]

jonno990 said:

I wouldn't know which engine to go for but I seem to remember a couple of people having expensive transmission problems.
Transfer box maybe?

Gearbox I think.

From memories of running a 200TDi the transfer box input gear would gradually strip the splines it runs on unless it was a modified cross drilled gear. That shaft is the mainshaft in the gearbox so it's a gearbox rebuild to replace it. I know this as I did it, on a Black n Decker Workmate in the road behind the disco. It even worked when I put it back & didn't leak.
I expect all the unmodded ones have broken by now, but a big clonk from under the centre of the car when pulling away was the giveaway this fault was occuring.

[goathead]

I had a good run with a TD5