Cheap offroader - Is this possible?

[lewis s]

Hi everyone, i am new to these parts, but am interested in getting into off roading.

My situation is as follows:

I have just sold my car and currently using a motorbike as my only mode of transport. I sold the car to bump up my house deposit so hopefully will be moving out soon, but due to possible dodgy winters it would be good for me to get a cheap car to get to work plus those times when i actually need to carry stuff around etc.

Coupled to this the fact that i would like to get into offroading, are there any cheap 4x4's (Vitara?) that would be a good starting point to do some offroading and be okish on the road for when i'm not using the bike? Are there any cars that would fulfill these needs or am i in a dream world?

Sorry if this does'nt make much sense, i have just finished a long night shift, but i will re-read and edit later on when i wake up
Thanks,

[Kermit power]

What do you mean by cheap, and what do you mean by reasonable to drive on the road?

You could get a Suzuki SJ or Samurai for well under a grand with most of the mods you might want to make it superb off road, but it would probably be dreadful on road - mine certainly was!

Equally, you could pay a bit more and get a Vitara, but I don't know how much they need modifying to give decent off road performance, nor how much that compromises on road performance.

Alternatively, you could get something like my Shogun for under £1,500. On Thursday last week I drove it 610 miles up through France and got out feeling like I'd just popped round the corner to pick up a paper, then on Sunday the photo below was taken. All I've done with it is put all terrain tyres on it, so the difference in on road performance is barely noticeable. One downside, though, is that you'll average around 20mpg on the roads, so keep that in mind if costs are really tight.

[SystemParanoia]

vitara lift/tyre size guide

http://www.shropshire-suzuki.co.uk/forum/viewtopic...

[lewis s]

To answer a few questions, the car will only be for when the bike is impractical so fuel economy would not be a huge concern however 20+ would be nice.

I understand that no proper off roader will be 'good' on the road, but i don't want to have to drive anything that will be scary to drive on tarmac. Budget would be only about £1000 as obviously the house move will be expensive, but i can add money to modifications etc quite happily on a monthly basis in the future. So basically a good budget starting point will be what i am looking for. I see a few people talking about the little 1.6 vitara's on here, would they actually be any use off road with a few modifications or are they a bad starting point?

[SystemParanoia]

they're alright

but not indestructable

[300bhp/ton]

lewis s said:

To answer a few questions, the car will only be for when the bike is impractical so fuel economy would not be a huge concern however 20+ would be nice.

I understand that no proper off roader will be 'good' on the road, but i don't want to have to drive anything that will be scary to drive on tarmac. Budget would be only about £1000 as obviously the house move will be expensive, but i can add money to modifications etc quite happily on a monthly basis in the future. So basically a good budget starting point will be what i am looking for. I see a few people talking about the little 1.6 vitara's on here, would they actually be any use off road with a few modifications or are they a bad starting point?

Few points.


1. Any off roader is fine on the road. Ok it won't be an Elise, but it'll get from A to B no problem. Sure the more extreme you go the more compromised it may become, but even then, if you don't drive like a wolly it likely won't be an issue. And a "Tonka Toy" type 4x4 can be rewarding in others ways on the road.

2.e.g. a Land Rover Defender is far more fun on road than something like a Vauxhall Frontera. And a great deal better off it too.

3. What type of off roading? What you plan to do has a big bearing on the vehicle of choice. From Green laning, to pay and play sites, to RTV and CCV trials, to challenge events, to comping and so on.

4. Do you like to tinker and wield a spanner?

5. If you want to haul anything, how important is space?


Some 4x4's I like:

-Land Rover Series
-Land Rover Discovery
-Suzuki Jimny
-Jeep Cherokee 4.0

Jimny might be tough to find in budget. Older SJ is quite cool, but a whole generation older.

Vitara looks funky, but this goes back to "what do you want to do off road"? IRS really needs locking diffs or TCS to make it as good as live axles off road, so I'd always place a Jimny above a Vitara.


Lots of other 4x4's available with various merits.

[SystemParanoia]

i love those jimneys!

[lewis s]

1. Thanks thats what i needed to hear. I'm obviously not looking for a race car and understand the rewards of driving compromised cars on the road (i drive the girlfriends 30bhp Morris Minor with ancient cross ply's ) Aslong as it will get me around that will do me fine

2. How much would a servicable Land Rover set me back?

3. I would like to do green laning and possibly RTV trials. Mainly just weekend leisure stuff and getting muddy. Is it worth joining a local club?

4. Ive had a TVR for 2 years, so not adverse to wielding a few spanners

5. Space not so important really.

Thanks for the tips i will definately start looking for a few other bits. Any recommendations for cheap insurance as well?

[Kermit power]

300bhp/ton said:

1. Any off roader is fine on the road. Ok it won't be an Elise, but it'll get from A to B no problem. Sure the more extreme you go the more compromised it may become, but even then, if you don't drive like a wolly it likely won't be an issue.

I think that's fairly debatable!

My experience of driving 4x4s has been Series Landies in the TA on Simex tyres but otherwise standard, an SJ 413 with spring over axle conversion and aggressive retread mud tyres and a 12yr old LWB Shogun standard apart from all terrain tyres and a 2" lift.

The Series Landies - admittedly knackered for years by the regular army before we got them - were "interesting" - read bloody scary - on the road. Straight ahead steering was an approximate concept, and you'd be constantly correcting the wheel whilst trundling along the motorway. Definitely not fine on the road by any definition I would apply.

The SJ was hilarious on the road, especially with the top down, just so long as you didn't need to exceed 50mph at all. Ever. I wouldn't say that was fine on the road either, although not as bad as the Landies.

The Shogun is a blissful delight to drive for hundreds of miles at a time. Heated leather coachdriver style sprung seats, aircon, automatic with cruise control etc, etc. I can't really think of anything else I'd prefer for sedate long distance cruising.

[bmw2002]

I got myself this earlier in the year for just on a grand, has been a laugh and so far has gone where ever I have taken it.
1993 K 2.5TD, 100k, T&T too so there are some cheap bits around if you look for them. I could however be tempted to part with it for the right money

[SystemParanoia]

you can fit 33" tyres under those arches with no lift

[bmw2002]

Stop it!

[lewis s]

bmw2002 said:

I got myself this earlier in the year for just on a grand, has been a laugh and so far has gone where ever I have taken it.
1993 K 2.5TD, 100k, T&T too so there are some cheap bits around if you look for them. I could however be tempted to part with it for the right money

What sort of mpg do these diesels get? And what about insurance, as being youngish may be a restricting factor

What does everyone think about this one? Not far from me:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1939402.htm

Edited by lewis s on Wednesday 18th August 16:27

[SystemParanoia]

if looking at paj's .. the 2.7 is the preferred diesel engine over the VM 2.5

the 5 door has a rear diff-lock whilst the 3dr doesnt

Edited by SystemParanoia on Wednesday 18th August 16:27

[bmw2002]

I'm getting mid 20's from mine at a guess, but it's not been on a long run yet.

[SystemParanoia]

bmw2002 said:

Stop it!

lol ok ok i'll stop

[bmw2002]

Think I might need new tyres now...




Where is best around Berkshire/Surrey? Kermit?

[300bhp/ton]

lewis s said:

1. Thanks thats what i needed to hear. I'm obviously not looking for a race car and understand the rewards of driving compromised cars on the road (i drive the girlfriends 30bhp Morris Minor with ancient cross ply's ) Aslong as it will get me around that will do me fine

2. How much would a servicable Land Rover set me back?

3. I would like to do green laning and possibly RTV trials. Mainly just weekend leisure stuff and getting muddy. Is it worth joining a local club?

4. Ive had a TVR for 2 years, so not adverse to wielding a few spanners

5. Space not so important really.

Thanks for the tips i will definately start looking for a few other bits. Any recommendations for cheap insurance as well?

rtv trials are cheap great fun grass roots motorsport.

The two main clubs are the ALRC which is Land Rovers only. And the AWDC which is anything. I'd highly recommend checking them out before buying. For trials the small the better really as it makes it easier and less likely to get damage. But a lwb vehicle gives you a shunt and if there are enough for a class of them, then often less competitive. Series Landys are quite good for this, good shape and capable enough plus easy to fix and lots of mods avaialable. You should be able to get on from £200-1200 depending on age and condition. A Disco is a good modern bet and a lot nicer on the road, they are also essentially a Defender under the body. But they are bigger (I'll post some pics of mine when I'm not on my iPhone). If you go non land rover, the. A Jimny is probably the best for trials due to it's tiny size. Something like a Shogun or Cherokee won't be anywhere near as nimble. I'll try and add some more info in a bit.

[anomaly]

Got to add a vote for the 4.0 Cherokee xj especially if mpg is not so important. They're incredible value at the moment and pretty tough. Drive very well on the road, pretty good off it and easy (though not particularly cheap) to modify to make better. Here's mine with a 3" lift and 31s:

[Kermit power]

SystemParanoia said:

the 5 door has a rear diff-lock whilst the 3dr doesnt

Pajeros don't have a rear diff-lock at all as far as I know. Certainly the Pajero drivers tend to look jealously on mine at pay & play days.

Pretty sure it's only the Shoguns which have rear diff-lock, although the rest should have LSD on the rear.