Landrover series 3

[richyb]

Hello all,
I've recently been thinking about getting a landrover series 3 as a bit of fun/project. Budgetwise £1500-£2000. I appreciate with an older vehicle its going to vary massively car to car but does anyone have any pointers on what to look for or avoid? Any words of wisdom appreciated.

[West4x4]

Look for rust chassis and bulkhead are the worst bits otherwise knackered smokey engines clunky whinny gearboxes sloppy steering. For your budget i'd expect to get something semi dencent although prices are constantly on the up

[Gafferjim]

Go for a 200TDi Defender. The series is a bone shaker, it'll loosen your filling in no time, heavy steering, leaf springs, no go!. max speed approaching 60 mph downhill.

But with all Landrovers, chassis rot, clutch mechanism, see if hi-low works and difflock. front bulkhead rots.

If you get a Defender that's reasonable, you'll still need to do work on it, but they are relatively easy & cheap to work on, you will soon learn.

You will however fall in love with it, especially when you've been off road in it.


As you can see, she's a nice old girl, but did have a few problems, rear crossmember was knackered, and both front outriggers were as well. A new crossmember (with extensions) was £130, the outriggers about £20 apiece, and I did the work myself, otherwise you'd probably be looking at £300-500 bill for labour.

Edited by Gafferjim on Friday 18th June 10:06

Edited by Gafferjim on Friday 18th June 10:11

Edited by Gafferjim on Friday 18th June 10:11

Edited by Gafferjim on Friday 18th June 10:15

[300bhp/ton]

richyb said:

Hello all,
I've recently been thinking about getting a landrover series 3 as a bit of fun/project. Budgetwise £1500-£2000. I appreciate with an older vehicle its going to vary massively car to car but does anyone have any pointers on what to look for or avoid? Any words of wisdom appreciated.

Reckon there's a few points to look at.

First off, what do you actually want to do with the vehicle and why a Series motor? Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Landy fan (have 2 at the mo), but depending on what you want to actually use it for, there maybe some better alternatives.

As for a Series Landy, well £1500-2000 should get you a fairly decent one. Pre 73 models will be tax exempt, so all Series I, II, IIa's and a few very early III's. These will all carry a premium over later vehicles. Most SIII's are not tax exempt.

Condition is key, but the great thing about Landy's is you can swap almost anything and replace it, and it's all just nuts and bolts. So it doesn't really matter which bit it is.

Chassis's do rust, but there are still some that are fine, there are also new chassis's available or you can weld in the sections you need. Some might even have a galvanized chassis already fitted (although this isn't so good if you want to weld a roll cage to it).

Bulkheads, footwells and doors rust. Doors are easy and fairly cheap to replace, footwells are very cheap but will need to be welded in and there are repair panels for the bulkhead. Although if the bulkhead is shot I'd probably walk away.

All body panels are aluminium so don't rust. If you want a tidy one then try and make sure it looks straight, if you plan to off road it, you'll likely bend it anyhow, so it's of less concern.

It's also worth trying to get the configuration you want, such as full tile, hard top, pick up and so on. While it's possible to change them you might as well aim for something you want (so long as its worth the money).

Engines are pretty good, noisy and not very powerful and likely to leak a bit of oil, but this is all normally. The petrol 2.25 is quite a sweep little motor and the more powerful option standard. But it'll like a drink, expect 15-20mpg tops. The diesel is less powerful and lot more noisy (also shakes the vehicle) but is a bit better on fuel (20-22mpg maybe).

Engine wise there are lots of potential upgrades, such as 2.5 diesels, 2.5 TDI's and V8 petrol. Ford V6's and Perkins diesels were also common at one time or another.

Gearboxes are a weak point of Series motors, quite nice to use, but agricultural. If it's really really noisy it might be an issue. Check that it goes into 4wd (yellow push down level) and low 4wd (red pull leaver).

Axles are another weak point, but only because LR designed them to break to protect the gearbox (serious....). But they can leak oil, look around the front and rear of the wheels to see if they have signs of oil on them. Not a huge issue, just time consuming to strip and refit all the seals.

Brakes are drum all round, they should be ok and pull the vehicle up without real issues, but remember they ain't disc.

Steering, despite being non-PAS should still be light and easy to use, even at parking speeds. Sometimes it isn't, which means all the joints and such probably need doing.

Suspension, all Series motors are leaf sprung. These will usually be a bit harsh on road and may creak if old and not used much. Parabolic springs will improve ride and off road ability as a rule.

That covers the basics pretty much, but do bear in mind that anything can be modded or changed, so a lot are not standard anymore. A good Series with a rotten chassis will require a bit of work to sort, but is by no means ready for the scrap man yet.


As for alternatives and such.

Well this comes back to what you want to do with it. As a classic run around a Series is ok, but it's pretty slow, uses a lot of fuel and has some major short comings off road compared to many alternatives. If you want a Landy, then that's good enough, but if that isn't the reason then consider some of the following.

Do you want to trial in the Land Rover? Clubs like the All Wheel Drive Club (AWDC) and Association of Land Rover Clubs (ALRC) run RTV (road taxed vehicle) and CCV (cross country vehicle) trials. These are a hoot and a lot of fun and a cheap way to do motorsport. But certain vehicles are better than others for this. And with the ALRC you can only use Land Rovers.


Defender's (Ninety and One Ten). While older 90's and 110's are getting cheaper, I think you'll really struggle to find one on your budget. You might find an early 2.5 TD, ex-military or maybe an old V8. But I suspect most will be wanting a new chassis or other major work. But this might be a good thing for you.

Why you should look at one - Well they are full time AWD, have coil suspension, so are more comfy on road and better off road, nicer cabin and more comfy, more powerful, faster, usually better mpg. Have stronger gearboxes and stronger axles.

In short, everything a Series will do, a Defender will do better.

Discovery's - Many people thing a Disco is not as good, but they are wrong. Under the body a Disco is almost identical to a Defender, same box section chassis, same engines, same gearbox and same suspension. There are really only two differences:

1. A Disco has a 100" wheelbase whereas a 90 has a 92.9" wheelbase and a 110 a 110" wheelbase
2. The body. A Disco body is slightly wider (same width as a Defender is you measure to the wheel arch flares actually). Taller and longer over hangs.

So the big difference is a Disco is more comfy and more plush and roomy inside. But it has the same off road ability, towing and hauling too. It's also pretty much just as easy to work on.

So in comparison to a Series motor, £2k would buy you a very decent, much newer Disco. Or still a tidy one and load of mods.

Downsides to a Disco, are off road it'll feel more bulky and bigger. Not really an issue, but if you do plan to trial, you'll notice this a lot and it'll make it harder.



For £2k you might also want to look at other makes of vehicle:

Suzuki Jimny.

This little 4x4 is often shunned by those who don't know. But it's actually very capable. Going back to trialling, most people in the LR world would want a Series 1, or at least a custom built Series 1 Landy. This is because they have an 80" wheelbase and are a lot narrower than a 90. This gives them huge maneuverability off road, making it much easy to navigate courses and obstacles.

A Jimny is actually a very similar size to an original Series 1. As in very small. So this is good off road. It also has a proper ladder frame chassis like a Landy, and live axles and coil suspension. So technically it's as good as a Defender off road, just a lot more nimble. They are also built fairly well, don't leak (all Landy's leak; oil out and water in) and are quite nice to drive on the road too.


Jeep Wrangler.

The Wrangler hales from the original WWII "Jeep". It is also the vehicle that spawned the original Land Rover believe it or not, with early LR prototypes actually being built on a Jeep chassis.

For your money you could probably look at YJ Wranglers. These are an early 1990's vehicle and fall quite nicely between a Series Landy and a Defender.

Essentially a YJ still uses leaf springs, although a better more capable setup than a Series Land Rover. But it is more modern to drive with discs (front at least), powerful engines in 2.5 or 4.0 litre guises (petrol only) and things like power steering, auto boxes and even air con. They are also almost identical in size to a 90. They have a 93" wheelbase and are about the same width and length. A very worth competitor and a lot of fun. They all have removable roof's and doors too. They like the Jimny though aren't as good work horses as the Landy's, so if hauling and towing will be your thing, sticking with the Brit is probably a good idea.


Jeep Cherokee XJ.

The Cherokee is a bit like a Disco, as in it uses quite bit of the Wranglers drive train. Big difference is it is unibody and not ladder frame chassis, so it keeps the weight down. Yet they have been proven to be very strong off road too. Good engine line up and options, so can be really comfy as well as capable. Leaf springs at the rear and coil at the front. They are smaller than a Disco and more nimble, but still quite spacious inside.



There are some other good Jap vehicles like Toyota's and Mitsubishi's, but I don't know much about them, so will leave it to others to explain there merits and such.


Hope it helps

[pugwash4x4]

what do you actually want? something to work on? rebuild, replace, improve etc?

something that you can use everyday and improve as and when needed?

something that works really well offroad?

A series 3 is very good for the first point, ok for the second and not so good for the last!

If you want an interesting vehicle that is "much" easier to drive then look for a stage one v8- rebuilt a great one a while ago and it is MUCH missed!