Kia Sportage as an off-roader?
Discussion
Hi folks, just idly searching away for possible options to take up green laning/ pay 'n play days and came accross the kia sportage as a left field option.
Has anyone driven one off-road? Wonder if they would be any good, they certainly come up cheap! £600 for a low-mileage 1999 version....
Has anyone driven one off-road? Wonder if they would be any good, they certainly come up cheap! £600 for a low-mileage 1999 version....
I suspect they are as good as most other soft roaders. Potential damage and replacement parts are likely to be your biggest downers, and personally its not the type of 4x4 I'd use for pay and play sites.
Probably ok on mild green lanes, towing and driving in a field.
Reason for this is off road is all about traction. And traction mostly comes from keeping wheels on the ground, so you either need a nice flexy suspension system with good articulation or other means such as locking diffs and fancy traction control systems.
Live axles such as you find on a traditional Land Rover are good because they offer good articulation and flex. Independant suspension generally is much more of a limitation at it'll want to lift a wheel or two off the ground far more.
Vehicles like the Freelander get away with it because of the clever traction control, although to really get close to live axles off road Land Rover had to go a set further with the RRS and Disco 3. It has air bags that simulate live axles, as in when one wheel is pushed up, it inflates the air bog to push the opposite wheel down. Works well, but is expensive and complex.
Size and weight also play a part off road. Smaller is more nimble, so easy to get places, shorter also generally means better approach/departure and breakover angles too. Light weight can also prevent a vehicle sinking in too deep as well.
That said, big, brawny and powerful can work well too, but certainly not as nimble.
Ground clearance plays a part too, although too high and they can become unstable on side slopes.
And if its rugged and easy to repair, simply makes owning and using it a lot easier.
On a budget you will really struggle to top the little Suzuki Jimny. It's small and light. But don't let its cute looks fool you. Underneath its built very much like a Land Rover is. Live axles and a ladder chassis. It also has good flexy coil suspension, power steering and is well built.
Being only 80" wheelbase, they are far more nimble off road than even something like a Defender.
There is the older SJ, but that has leaf suspension and with the price of Jimny's I don't understand why you'd opt for the older model for the same money.
Series III Land Rovers. True and tested. Very capable stock. But remember they are old. No PAS, no disc brakes, little power, huge fuel consumption and leaf suspension. Great fun, but if you don't need the hauling or towing ability then the Jimny beats one hands down. Weak axles, diffs and gearboxes also a bugger too. But very easy to work on and a huge owners community.
Land Rover Discovery. Much more modern and comfy than a Series Land Rover. Some suffer rust, but it's all fixable, and for off road really doesn't matter that much. Coil suspension and better axles and gearbox than a Series and much more powerful engines. Down side, they can still break, especially if you want to add big tyres and a lift kit. They are also a lot bigger and heavier than a Series. Good for carrying people and comfy on the road. But expect to take more damage off road due to size.
Jeep Cherokee XJ. More luxurious than most Disco's and slightly smaller. Punchy 4 litre engine is good. Live axles. Coil front suspension and leaf rear. Not as well mannered on the road as a Disco. But very capable off road (low ground clearance in stock trim though). And well worth a look at this money.
Jeep Wrangler. Probably only a leaf sprung 2.5 in budget. Remember the Jeep inspired and helped create the original Land Rover. The Wrangler is very similar to a Defender. Ok this one has leaf suspension, but its much newer than a Series Land Rover, much better design suspension and really a better vehicle, although not great at towing or hauling.
I believe some Toyota's and such should be pretty good, but I don't know much about them.
But my advice, what ever you get, make sure it has live axles really.
Another thing to consider, a Landy will open you up to loads and loads of clubs. Many are part of the ALRC or AWDC, both run regular RTV trials events, which arguably are a lot more fun than just pay and play sites.
Probably ok on mild green lanes, towing and driving in a field.
Reason for this is off road is all about traction. And traction mostly comes from keeping wheels on the ground, so you either need a nice flexy suspension system with good articulation or other means such as locking diffs and fancy traction control systems.
Live axles such as you find on a traditional Land Rover are good because they offer good articulation and flex. Independant suspension generally is much more of a limitation at it'll want to lift a wheel or two off the ground far more.
Vehicles like the Freelander get away with it because of the clever traction control, although to really get close to live axles off road Land Rover had to go a set further with the RRS and Disco 3. It has air bags that simulate live axles, as in when one wheel is pushed up, it inflates the air bog to push the opposite wheel down. Works well, but is expensive and complex.
Size and weight also play a part off road. Smaller is more nimble, so easy to get places, shorter also generally means better approach/departure and breakover angles too. Light weight can also prevent a vehicle sinking in too deep as well.
That said, big, brawny and powerful can work well too, but certainly not as nimble.
Ground clearance plays a part too, although too high and they can become unstable on side slopes.
And if its rugged and easy to repair, simply makes owning and using it a lot easier.
On a budget you will really struggle to top the little Suzuki Jimny. It's small and light. But don't let its cute looks fool you. Underneath its built very much like a Land Rover is. Live axles and a ladder chassis. It also has good flexy coil suspension, power steering and is well built.
Being only 80" wheelbase, they are far more nimble off road than even something like a Defender.
There is the older SJ, but that has leaf suspension and with the price of Jimny's I don't understand why you'd opt for the older model for the same money.
Series III Land Rovers. True and tested. Very capable stock. But remember they are old. No PAS, no disc brakes, little power, huge fuel consumption and leaf suspension. Great fun, but if you don't need the hauling or towing ability then the Jimny beats one hands down. Weak axles, diffs and gearboxes also a bugger too. But very easy to work on and a huge owners community.
Land Rover Discovery. Much more modern and comfy than a Series Land Rover. Some suffer rust, but it's all fixable, and for off road really doesn't matter that much. Coil suspension and better axles and gearbox than a Series and much more powerful engines. Down side, they can still break, especially if you want to add big tyres and a lift kit. They are also a lot bigger and heavier than a Series. Good for carrying people and comfy on the road. But expect to take more damage off road due to size.
Jeep Cherokee XJ. More luxurious than most Disco's and slightly smaller. Punchy 4 litre engine is good. Live axles. Coil front suspension and leaf rear. Not as well mannered on the road as a Disco. But very capable off road (low ground clearance in stock trim though). And well worth a look at this money.
Jeep Wrangler. Probably only a leaf sprung 2.5 in budget. Remember the Jeep inspired and helped create the original Land Rover. The Wrangler is very similar to a Defender. Ok this one has leaf suspension, but its much newer than a Series Land Rover, much better design suspension and really a better vehicle, although not great at towing or hauling.
I believe some Toyota's and such should be pretty good, but I don't know much about them.
But my advice, what ever you get, make sure it has live axles really.
Another thing to consider, a Landy will open you up to loads and loads of clubs. Many are part of the ALRC or AWDC, both run regular RTV trials events, which arguably are a lot more fun than just pay and play sites.
Thanks for the response mate - I've read some of your previous posts about articulation, but good to put it into context which vehicles have what. I have considered the Jimny, and it's not out of the the reckoning, ditto the Disco and the Jeep. Most defenders seem out of budget and I don't want a 'series as I don't think they offer enough grunt and I don't have the garage space for an engine swap.
Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
eltax91 said:
Thanks for the response mate - I've read some of your previous posts about articulation, but good to put it into context which vehicles have what. I have considered the Jimny, and it's not out of the the reckoning, ditto the Disco and the Jeep. Most defenders seem out of budget and I don't want a 'series as I don't think they offer enough grunt and I don't have the garage space for an engine swap.
Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
Defenders are expensive, any cheap will be cheap for a reason.Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
Series motors are still good, and you may find one forsale with an engine conversion already done. But they are compromised somewhat due to their age and design.
That said, less power can be good as it'll teach technique rather than brute force. And in all honesty, most off road work is slow paced and using power often causes more hassle than it's worth.
I think you're biggest stumbling block is budget. Jimny's can be had in good order for around £900 from what I've seen.
Disco's too will more than likely be around the £800-1200 mark for something tidy and solid.
But it all depends what you want to do with it really.
If you think club activities and off road trialling competitions might be your thing, buy a vehicle capable of entering these. ALRC means Land Rover's only, whereas the AWDC allow any make. But both clubs have restrictions on what mods are allowed.
If you're going to turn up to all-model trials and want to win. You have a choice.
1. If you're not using it as an everyday car, of if your commute is down the road. Steyr Puch haflinger.
http://www.4wdonline.com/Steyr/Haflinger.html
2. Suzuki SJ with knobbly tyres.
Everything else is for people who place other things above offroading.
Having had 2 landies and having a soft spot for them, I can assure you they are only any good for towing a sheep trailer across a muddy field. Throw some proper stuff at them and you'll break the comedy cheese running gear.
1. If you're not using it as an everyday car, of if your commute is down the road. Steyr Puch haflinger.
http://www.4wdonline.com/Steyr/Haflinger.html
2. Suzuki SJ with knobbly tyres.
Everything else is for people who place other things above offroading.
Having had 2 landies and having a soft spot for them, I can assure you they are only any good for towing a sheep trailer across a muddy field. Throw some proper stuff at them and you'll break the comedy cheese running gear.
300bhp/ton said:
eltax91 said:
Thanks for the response mate - I've read some of your previous posts about articulation, but good to put it into context which vehicles have what. I have considered the Jimny, and it's not out of the the reckoning, ditto the Disco and the Jeep. Most defenders seem out of budget and I don't want a 'series as I don't think they offer enough grunt and I don't have the garage space for an engine swap.
Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
Defenders are expensive, any cheap will be cheap for a reason.Will probably include the 3 candidates above in my search and choose the one which is in best condition/ history for the money. If anyone wants to sell me a Disco in good nick with MOT & TAX for £600 then get in touch!
As for the KIA, I think that's out if it doesn't have live axles....
Series motors are still good, and you may find one forsale with an engine conversion already done. But they are compromised somewhat due to their age and design.
That said, less power can be good as it'll teach technique rather than brute force. And in all honesty, most off road work is slow paced and using power often causes more hassle than it's worth.
I think you're biggest stumbling block is budget. Jimny's can be had in good order for around £900 from what I've seen.
Disco's too will more than likely be around the £800-1200 mark for something tidy and solid.
But it all depends what you want to do with it really.
If you think club activities and off road trialling competitions might be your thing, buy a vehicle capable of entering these. ALRC means Land Rover's only, whereas the AWDC allow any make. But both clubs have restrictions on what mods are allowed.
There are a lot of Disco's out there for this money. Not seen many Jimny's in that price bracket (searching within 60 miles of Loughborough), and Defenders in budget look tired at best. Even though i've always wanted a Def, the Mrs would kill me if I spent any more on what will be a hobby that I don't know how long I'll keep up.
I'm in no rush to buy as the summer is always going to be less fun than the winter for off-roading, do 4x4 prices come down when the snow goes away? I will have one on the drive by the end of the summer though, just waiting for the right one to come up.
I got a lift in an old SJ yesterday, on the road.
It did have a lift kit, knobbly tyres and a roll bar, but.....................
............It was effing "orible"!
They may not be the best in the most severe conditions, but as a general off roader, the disco is "luxuriously" preferable, by far.
HCM.
It did have a lift kit, knobbly tyres and a roll bar, but.....................
............It was effing "orible"!
They may not be the best in the most severe conditions, but as a general off roader, the disco is "luxuriously" preferable, by far.
HCM.
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