SII/SIII trialling type of thing!

[muppetdave]

My little sister's fella has just called me asking if I'd be interested in using an old S2/3 (can't remember which) SWB 2.25 Diesel he has kicking around for a bit of fun locally (we have a couple of farms, woodland with nice holes(!) and Devil's Pit locally). That said I think he wants to soup it up a little - i.e. rollcage level.

Between us and some friends we can call on, we have reasonable engineering skills and a good workshop (and storage), but I'm not sure of the limitations of the vehicle - the old 2.25 diesel was awful from recollection. Short of swapping across to a V8 (and coiler chassis...) can anyone make any sensible suggestions to get a bit more oomph from it - certainly while we start off with this.

[West4x4]

nowt wrong with a 2 and a quarter diesel a good one has plenty of low down torque give it a service and get the injectors redone maybe give the pump a little bit of a twist. some 7.50 SATS if you can find them and off you go!

[300bhp/ton]

muppetdave said:

My little sister's fella has just called me asking if I'd be interested in using an old S2/3 (can't remember which) SWB 2.25 Diesel he has kicking around for a bit of fun locally (we have a couple of farms, woodland with nice holes(!) and Devil's Pit locally). That said I think he wants to soup it up a little - i.e. rollcage level.

Between us and some friends we can call on, we have reasonable engineering skills and a good workshop (and storage), but I'm not sure of the limitations of the vehicle - the old 2.25 diesel was awful from recollection. Short of swapping across to a V8 (and coiler chassis...) can anyone make any sensible suggestions to get a bit more oomph from it - certainly while we start off with this.

It really depends what you want to do tbh.

A leaf sprung Landy doesn't have the greatest flex or power, but in reality they'll go almost anywhere a more "serious" 4x4 will.

For more power you have several options, most will be engine swaps. A V8 or a Tdi are probably the most sensible.

I've a 2.5 n/a diesel unit I was going to put in my SIII, although the engine is on ebay at the mo if you're interested.

Some descent tyres would be your first mod IMO. 238/85R16's or some 7.50's will go straight on.

Standard suspension is ok, but if it's seized some new springs and dampers will make a difference.

Parabolic suspension is you're best bet and won't be so far off a coil sprung vehicle. However the cheap parabolic springs are a bit crap, so only buy the better stuff.

Procomp also sell longer dampers if you are modding.


If you want to go trialling, such as RTV or CCV then you'll need to join a club. It's worth doing this first as you can then see what mods the regs do and don't permit.

The ALRC (Association of Land Rover Clubs) is one of the most established and dedicated to Land Rover's only.

The AWDC (All Wheel Drive Club) is another large 4x4 body, but they cater for all makes not just Land Rovers.

[muppetdave]

Thanks guys. I'll have a look at the parabolic springs option, another friend suggested getting larger shackles and moving them also. I was thinking that torque-wise the engine should do us to start with, so as you suggest get servicing as a first job. 7.50s - check, as the vehicle won't go on the road, I would think about some of the mega-knobbly ones (can't remember the name) over the SATs.

[Lefty Two Drams]

Series landies are actually very impressive offroad and it could be argued that you will learn more technique in one of these than by jumping straight in with a modified coiler Defender.

Remember that lifting doesn't inmprove ground clearance, it just lets you fit bigger tyres which will raise the diff. Parabolics ought to improve ride comfort and articulation.

With gearing as low as they are, power shouldn't really be an issue. I've had a couple of 2.25 petrol series vehicles and both were quite adequate with about 65bhp

Having said that, more power is always nice! If you're planning on playing in water I'd seriously consider a tdi swap rather than a v8. Petrol engines can be a ballache to properly waterproof.

Regarding tyres, I'd stick to 750's. 900's can ruin the gearing so unless you fancy changing diff ratios I'd keep to that size. I had some 235x85's (virtually the same as 750 IIRC) SIMEX rip-offs on my SIII 109 and they were great in the mud. Scary braking on wet tarmac though...

[rhinochopig]

Lefty Two Drams said:

Series landies are actually very impressive offroad and it could be argued that you will learn more technique in one of these than by jumping straight in with a modified coiler Defender.

Remember that lifting doesn't inmprove ground clearance, it just lets you fit bigger tyres which will raise the diff. Parabolics ought to improve ride comfort and articulation.

With gearing as low as they are, power shouldn't really be an issue. I've had a couple of 2.25 petrol series vehicles and both were quite adequate with about 65bhp

Having said that, more power is always nice! If you're planning on playing in water I'd seriously consider a tdi swap rather than a v8. Petrol engines can be a ballache to properly waterproof.

Regarding tyres, I'd stick to 750's. 900's can ruin the gearing so unless you fancy changing diff ratios I'd keep to that size. I had some 235x85's (virtually the same as 750 IIRC) SIMEX rip-offs on my SIII 109 and they were great in the mud. Scary braking on wet tarmac though...

You could be running a set of Formula one wets and it would be scary braking in a series landy.

[300bhp/ton]

muppetdave said:

Thanks guys. I'll have a look at the parabolic springs option, another friend suggested getting larger shackles and moving them also. I was thinking that torque-wise the engine should do us to start with, so as you suggest get servicing as a first job. 7.50s - check, as the vehicle won't go on the road, I would think about some of the mega-knobbly ones (can't remember the name) over the SATs.

The best parabolics to fit are these: http://www.heystee-automotive.com/

But they'll cost you an arm and a leg!!!

I personally was going to go for some from Rocky Moutain: http://www.rockymountainspares.co.uk/?page_id=41

They are still pricey, but a lot cheaper than the Heystee ones. Only bugger is they are almost impossible to get hold of. Always sold out.


All other parabolics (from Paddocks, John Craddock, Famour Four and even the other "British" made ones from Rocky Mountain Spares) are sadly utter rubbish.

[Lefty Two Drams]

300bhp/ton said:

muppetdave said:

Thanks guys. I'll have a look at the parabolic springs option, another friend suggested getting larger shackles and moving them also. I was thinking that torque-wise the engine should do us to start with, so as you suggest get servicing as a first job. 7.50s - check, as the vehicle won't go on the road, I would think about some of the mega-knobbly ones (can't remember the name) over the SATs.

The best parabolics to fit are these: http://www.heystee-automotive.com/

But they'll cost you an arm and a leg!!!

I personally was going to go for some from Rocky Moutain: http://www.rockymountainspares.co.uk/?page_id=41

They are still pricey, but a lot cheaper than the Heystee ones. Only bugger is they are almost impossible to get hold of. Always sold out.


All other parabolics (from Paddocks, John Craddock, Famour Four and even the other "British" made ones from Rocky Mountain Spares) are sadly utter rubbish.

I'm not that familiar with the parabolics but I thought the rocky ones had a decent reputation?

[300bhp/ton]

Lefty Two Drams said:

300bhp/ton said:

muppetdave said:

Thanks guys. I'll have a look at the parabolic springs option, another friend suggested getting larger shackles and moving them also. I was thinking that torque-wise the engine should do us to start with, so as you suggest get servicing as a first job. 7.50s - check, as the vehicle won't go on the road, I would think about some of the mega-knobbly ones (can't remember the name) over the SATs.

The best parabolics to fit are these: http://www.heystee-automotive.com/

But they'll cost you an arm and a leg!!!

I personally was going to go for some from Rocky Moutain: http://www.rockymountainspares.co.uk/?page_id=41

They are still pricey, but a lot cheaper than the Heystee ones. Only bugger is they are almost impossible to get hold of. Always sold out.


All other parabolics (from Paddocks, John Craddock, Famour Four and even the other "British" made ones from Rocky Mountain Spares) are sadly utter rubbish.

I'm not that familiar with the parabolics but I thought the rocky ones had a decent reputation?

Depends which way you look at it. They are basically a knock off of the Heystee springs but made cheaper. That said they are still better than the others which tend to bend and snap rather easily.

[West4x4]

Rocky mountain do have them in stock you just need to ring them dont use the website. But i'd oil up the springs and run it as standard for now. Have some fun before you go changing things

[OnTheOverrun]

If you need to keep the budget down, do what us old folk used to do before you could get parabolic springs - take a few leaves out of your existing springs or fit a set off an AP (lightweight).

[muppetdave]

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

[OnTheOverrun]

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

[rhinochopig]

OnTheOverrun said:

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

Jesus, I'd hate to have driven a standard off road then. My LW was as harsh as hell with it's "softer" springs. I may as well have replaced the shocks with steel connecting rods given how effective the suspension was.

[mrdelmonti]

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

Jesus, I'd hate to have driven a standard off road then. My LW was as harsh as hell with it's "softer" springs. I may as well have replaced the shocks with steel connecting rods given how effective the suspension was.

Its like that with my 88" on parabolics, I don't think it's actually possible to own a Series that won't try to take your teeth out.

[Lefty Two Drams]

My last series was a 109" FFR with heavy duty rear springs. I think they were made of concrete.

I thought they were fooked at first but I greased the hell out of them and, unladen, it was still bloody solid.

With 8 blokes on board it was a bit better (although a bit smellier and an awful lot slower.)

[300bhp/ton]

mrdelmonti said:

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

Jesus, I'd hate to have driven a standard off road then. My LW was as harsh as hell with it's "softer" springs. I may as well have replaced the shocks with steel connecting rods given how effective the suspension was.

Its like that with my 88" on parabolics, I don't think it's actually possible to own a Series that won't try to take your teeth out.

Depends on the parabolics. Many of the ones sold in the UK are for heavy duty hauling and offer a hard ride, if you want more compliance and better off road you need a 2 leaf parabolic spring.

[mrdelmonti]

300bhp/ton said:

mrdelmonti said:

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

Jesus, I'd hate to have driven a standard off road then. My LW was as harsh as hell with it's "softer" springs. I may as well have replaced the shocks with steel connecting rods given how effective the suspension was.

Its like that with my 88" on parabolics, I don't think it's actually possible to own a Series that won't try to take your teeth out.

Depends on the parabolics. Many of the ones sold in the UK are for heavy duty hauling and offer a hard ride, if you want more compliance and better off road you need a 2 leaf parabolic spring.

Thats what I have on mine 2 leaf paras, although they were fitted by the previous owner so I'm not 100% sure on where they came from. It doesn't bother me much anyway, all adds to adventure that every journey inevitably becomes when a Series is your daily driver.

[OnTheOverrun]

rhinochopig said:

OnTheOverrun said:

muppetdave said:

Never heard about putting lightweight springs on - why's that? I had one years and years ago and wouldn't know there was a difference.

They have fewer leaves and are softer - leans a bit on the road but better off-road.

Jesus, I'd hate to have driven a standard off road then. My LW was as harsh as hell with it's "softer" springs. I may as well have replaced the shocks with steel connecting rods given how effective the suspension was.

The relative spring rate versus the weight of the vehicle is the same on a standard LR and an AP because although the AP has softer springs, it weighs less. If you then take these AP springs designed for a light AP and fit them to a heavier standard LR you then effectively have 'softer' springs because they are designed for a light vehicle and you've now fitted them to a heavier vehicle. Get it now?

[300bhp/ton]

OnTheOverrun said:

The relative spring rate versus the weight of the vehicle is the same on a standard LR and an AP because although the AP has softer springs, it weighs less.

iirc the common used name "lightweight" is actually a bit of a misnomer for an Air Portable Land Rover, as they actually weigh slightly more than an equivalent Series II/III.

It's the fact they can be stripped quickly of doors and bonnet and such that they can end up lighter for transport.

interweb said:

With all body panels etc. fitted, the Lightweight was actually heavier than an 88" due to all of the extra brackets and fasteners required to make panels demountable.

http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/light.html