A/T's vs M/T's

[SystemParanoia]

i have muds on my car currently, and so far, ive managed to pickup 2 punctures in as many weeks.

ill be needing a pair of new tyres plus a spare soon.

i was just wondering, are AT's much of a downgrade in offroad performance vs MT's ?

and if so, do they proportionately increase MPG ?


and finally, ive found that the sidewalls in the MT's seem to be so stiff they can support the car without deforming even when completely deflated... will AT's share this ability ?


i do have my heart set on a set of extreme Insa remoulds... but willing to go AT if it means im not loosing out much




use of car..

daily driver
Greenlaning
Pay&Play days

[300bhp/ton]

SystemParanoia said:

i have muds on my car currently, and so far, ive managed to pickup 2 punctures in as many weeks.

ill be needing a pair of new tyres plus a spare soon.

i was just wondering, are AT's much of a downgrade in offroad performance vs MT's ?

Loaded question.

Yes and no, depends very much on what MT's you have, what AT's you are comparing them too, the exact terrain you drive on and even to some extent your ability and the vehicle.

I've used some AT's and been very impressed with them off road such as the BFG AT however they are quite shocking on road and IMO no really any better than MTs.

However other AT's aren't so good, it really does depend on the terrain. Hard dusty baked mud and most will be good, deep boggy mud or wet grass and its a different story.

So they are either the best of or the worst of both worlds depending on your take. Personally I'd probably run MT's if the vehicle is too go off road at all, they look better and I just prefer them. If its a high performance 4x4 however you may be better off with AT's.

SystemParanoia said:

and if so, do they proportionately increase MPG ?

Again this depends, but generally yes. Without the big lugs they will be more efficient and produce less frictional drag. However the difference may only be minor at best.

SystemParanoia said:

and finally, ive found that the sidewalls in the MT's seem to be so stiff they can support the car without deforming even when completely deflated... will AT's share this ability ?

Again this depends, while most MT's have strengthened side walls, some are very tough and cross plys espcially. So it depends what tyres you are comparing as a point of reference.

As a rule AT's will not be as tough, so no.

SystemParanoia said:

i do have my heart set on a set of extreme Insa remoulds... but willing to go AT if it means im not loosing out much

Which tyres exactly?? Extreme isn't one of their range as far as I know. Speciasl Track is a Simex copy. In the Landy world often referred to as axle breakers. The look cool and work well in the right conditions. I've driven a V8 90 with them on and frankly it was horrid, felt like you were driving over a cattle grid non stop. Also being a remould makes this worse.

I certainly woulnd't use them as a daily driver on the road, apart from being horid they will wear out quick, well at least take the edges off the lugs.

The Sahara is very similar to the Greenway Amazon and Bronco 4x4 Macho. I had a set of these on a V8 Range Rover. I actually thought they were quite acceptable on road and from what I've seen are very capable off road too.

SystemParanoia said:

use of car..
daily driver
Greenlaning
Pay&Play days

[SystemParanoia]

Currently wearing Kuhmo Road Ventura MT's in 31/10.5/15

ive round them absolutely amasing ( compared to my only other 4x4 experience.. a fat boy vitara on road tyres )

ive been down green lanes that were so muddy i wouldent have been able to walk down it, yet i just ploughed on through as if it were just another road.

the road buzz isnt very obtrusive at 60mph

and ill be fitting a 2" lift soon.

i like being able to keep going even when the mud get axle deep!

i guess im already wearing the best tyres for what i use the car for ?


and i didnt mean to pre load the question.

but if getting a set of insa turbo special tracks will mean i loose my lugs when driving on-road then i guess they wont be such a good idea.


are re-moulds really such a no-go ? their prices are really good £48+vat for the king pin tracker



the tread patern is almost identical to what i already have

[PhillipM]

I think perhaps Kuhmo KL71's would suit your conditions perfectly, they're a sort of half and half, not quite as aggressive as most mud terrains, and as bearable on tarmac as most A/T's.

[SystemParanoia]

was talking to a guy with a jimney that has them fitted.

noticed the tyre name is the same as mine, so i guess he has the latest version and my set is the older set.


so are remoulds reccomended ? seeing as they're cheap ? ( <£50 for 31's ? ) vs ~ £100 for other makes

[SystemParanoia]

just posting this pic b/c i thought these tyres look awesome!




image of the KL71 mentioned

Edited by SystemParanoia on Friday 4th December 23:33

[Andy Sargeant]

I have the ITP's on my 700 Grizzly, great tyres but largest is 14" rim and not road legal.

Kumho KL71's are great tyres for the money, we sell lots with everyone very happy.

Andy.

[OllieWinchester]

300bhp/ton said:

In the Landy world often referred to as axle breakers.

To be fair, when referring to LR's, surely slicks could be classed as 'axle breakers'....

[300bhp/ton]

SystemParanoia said:

so are remoulds reccomended ? seeing as they're cheap ? ( <£50 for 31's ? ) vs ~ £100 for other makes

I personally don't have any issue with remoulds, but you are getting what you pay for. A remould is likely to lose its edge sooner with tarmac use. But to be fair I've been running about on some since May with no problem.

That said my normal road tyre is these:



In 33.11.50R15

[100SRV]

Andy Sargeant said:

I have the ITP's on my 700 Grizzly, great tyres but largest is 14" rim and not road legal.

Kumho KL71's are great tyres for the money, we sell lots with everyone very happy.

Andy.

I'll second that...see similar thread in Land Rover forum on PH...

[Kermit power]

I currently have 31" BFG ATs on my Shogun (bought from Andy Sargeant on here). They've been very good as a compromise tyre - they're not much less comfortable on the road than a road tyre, and whilst they have less grip on the road, it's such predictable and gentle back end slide that it's rather good fun, although passengers might not agree!

Off-road, they are very impressive. The only surface I've really got stuck on has been wet clay covered with lots of dead leaves. On most other surfaces, I'd say I can do most of what I would expect to be able to do on mud tyres. Surprisingly, on sandy surfaces like Slab Common they sometimes seem to have substantially more grip than people on muds, and I'm not going to flatter myself into thinking that's because of superior driving skills on my behalf!

Having said all that, I am planning on selling them.

Now that I can fit all 3 kids across the back of the ZT, I can play a bit more with the Shogun with a bit less fear of wifely strife if I break it a bit on a Sunday, so I'm selling my little Zook, and assuming I get a reasonable price for it, I'm going to get a 2" body lift on the Shogun, which will let me fit 33" tyres.

Given that I do quite a lot of road mileage in it as well, though, I don't want to be driving around the whole time on 33" fuel-sapping rubber, so I'm going to get some 33" Muds on some second-hand 16" rims, and then put Mitsi standard road tyres on the 15" wheels I've currently got. OK, it might be a bit of a pain changing the wheels around before playing, but I reckon it's worth it in the long run.

Watch this space anyone who wants a set of 31" BFGs with about 10k miles on them, which for these is hardly run in!

[Lefty Two Drams]

SystemParanoia said:

i have muds on my car currently, and so far, ive managed to pickup 2 punctures in as many weeks.

ill be needing a pair of new tyres plus a spare soon.

i was just wondering, are AT's much of a downgrade in offroad performance vs MT's ?

and if so, do they proportionately increase MPG ?


and finally, ive found that the sidewalls in the MT's seem to be so stiff they can support the car without deforming even when completely deflated... will AT's share this ability ?


i do have my heart set on a set of extreme Insa remoulds... but willing to go AT if it means im not loosing out much




use of car..

daily driver
Greenlaning
Pay&Play days

I wouldn't use Insa Turbos on a daily driver!

Might be worth looking at a compromise tyre. Kumho KL71 are about £75 each for 31x10.5 R15 and are very capabale offroad and, because they're directional, are quiet on the tarmac. Surprisngly grippy on teh road too, I have them on my Shogun and would never go back to BFG AT or MT for a 4x4 that has to do everything.

[Kermit power]

Lefty Two Drams said:

Kumho KL71 are about £75 each for 31x10.5 R15 and are very capabale offroad and, because they're directional, are quiet on the tarmac. Surprisngly grippy on teh road too, I have them on my Shogun and would never go back to BFG AT or MT for a 4x4 that has to do everything.

Hmm... Interesting. Have you driven your Shogun on road tyres at all? I'd be interested to know how the fuel economy compares.

Also, how does the ride compare on road between the Kumhos and the BFG ATs? I read somewhere that they're rather lumpy at slow speeds?

[Lefty Two Drams]

Well, when I bought my shogun it had 4 bald road tyres so I don't have that much experience of driving on them! I get about 28-30mpg on my 30-mile A/B road commute which I think is pretty good.

The ride is absolutely fine for a big, wallowy old 4x4. Again, I'll struiggle to compare it to driving one on road tyres but I really haven't found it a problem. I've done someting like 16000 miles since I got in February and it;s been great.

[Kermit power]

Lefty Two Drams said:

Well, when I bought my shogun it had 4 bald road tyres so I don't have that much experience of driving on them! I get about 28-30mpg on my 30-mile A/B road commute which I think is pretty good.

The ride is absolutely fine for a big, wallowy old 4x4. Again, I'll struiggle to compare it to driving one on road tyres but I really haven't found it a problem. I've done someting like 16000 miles since I got in February and it;s been great.

Blimey, that's outstanding! I reckon it would probably drop quite a bit though on 33" tyres. Hmm... More thinking still to be done!

[300bhp/ton]

Kermit power said:

Lefty Two Drams said:

Well, when I bought my shogun it had 4 bald road tyres so I don't have that much experience of driving on them! I get about 28-30mpg on my 30-mile A/B road commute which I think is pretty good.

The ride is absolutely fine for a big, wallowy old 4x4. Again, I'll struiggle to compare it to driving one on road tyres but I really haven't found it a problem. I've done someting like 16000 miles since I got in February and it;s been great.

Blimey, that's outstanding! I reckon it would probably drop quite a bit though on 33" tyres. Hmm... More thinking still to be done!

I think mpg is a hard one to call sometimes. On my Disco I've run 3 different sets of tyres a set of 31.10.50R15 BFG AT's. A set of remould 238/85R16's with big lugs and my normal set
of Simex Jungle Trekker II's in 33.11.50R15.

Mpg wise I think they are all similar and if anything the 33's are arguably slightly better as they lower your cruising rpms. Ride the AT's are smoothest. But I don't personally have any issues with the others considering the type of vehicle. They certainly aren't uncomfortable not even after a couple of hours on the motrway. They are more noisy but the vehicle is loud anyhow so it's not a bother. And surprisingly I'd say the Simex's handle better than the AT's on the Tarmac.

[SmokinV8]

300bhp/ton said:

SystemParanoia said:

i do have my heart set on a set of extreme Insa remoulds... but willing to go AT if it means im not loosing out much

Which tyres exactly?? Extreme isn't one of their range as far as I know. Speciasl Track is a Simex copy. In the Landy world often referred to as axle breakers. The look cool and work well in the right conditions. I've driven a V8 90 with them on and frankly it was horrid, felt like you were driving over a cattle grid non stop. Also being a remould makes this worse.

I certainly woulnd't use them as a daily driver on the road, apart from being horid they will wear out quick, well at least take the edges off the lugs.

Sorry 300bhp, cant agree with you on the ride quality with the "special tracks". I use them on my 90 and yes they "drone" like mad on the road but the ride is not harsh at all. But I would agree that they probably shouldnt be used as a daily driver else they will wear very quickly and handling isnt that great either.
Just fitted some Kumho KL71s to my navara and they are a very quiet tyre on the road, no different in fact to the OE tyres that came off.

[300bhp/ton]

SmokinV8 said:

300bhp/ton said:

SystemParanoia said:

i do have my heart set on a set of extreme Insa remoulds... but willing to go AT if it means im not loosing out much

Which tyres exactly?? Extreme isn't one of their range as far as I know. Speciasl Track is a Simex copy. In the Landy world often referred to as axle breakers. The look cool and work well in the right conditions. I've driven a V8 90 with them on and frankly it was horrid, felt like you were driving over a cattle grid non stop. Also being a remould makes this worse.

I certainly woulnd't use them as a daily driver on the road, apart from being horid they will wear out quick, well at least take the edges off the lugs.

Sorry 300bhp, cant agree with you on the ride quality with the "special tracks". I use them on my 90 and yes they "drone" like mad on the road but the ride is not harsh at all. But I would agree that they probably shouldnt be used as a daily driver else they will wear very quickly and handling isnt that great either.
Just fitted some Kumho KL71s to my navara and they are a very quiet tyre on the road, no different in fact to the OE tyres that came off.

Maybe it was the set on that 90 then, it wasn't mine, but all I can say is it rode horrid, you could feel the lugs moving about and it really did feel like you were driving over a cattle gird.

And its not as if I don't run comparable tyres...

[Jim Shoulder]

May I ask if AT's and MTs (particularly) harm braking in the wet. My 110 has to carry kids about for its daily job and I wouldn't want them to be any less safe just because they're Dad wants a car to look "cooler" and to perform better in the mud.

[Rich S]

I had asked Andy for some advice on what size KL71's I could fit to my Defender

Well after a brief chat last week , I popped down to get a set fitted last Saturday.

I just have to say , what a nice bunch of guys. No faffing about , the truck had hardly stopped , and it was up in the air with wheels being whipped off .

Guilty of going for the 265 size since they look a little more meaty

Now these aren't Snow tyres , but they are coping admirably , and I can't wait to try them down a few green lanes

Thanks again Andy

Rich