Diff lock or dislocating springs?
Discussion
I've started using my Landy a bit more again. Taking it down quite a tough route today I got stuck twice - Once in a cross axle situation with a rear wheel off the ground and a second time when the front and rear diff grounded out in some deep ruts.
Currently the car has decent tyres and I dont want to go any larger because of rubbing problems (265/75/16), 2" lift and extended Pro Comp shocks.
Which mod is going to get me further and if it is the diff which one should I go for and what other parts will have to be changed. e.g. half shafts?
Thanks
Currently the car has decent tyres and I dont want to go any larger because of rubbing problems (265/75/16), 2" lift and extended Pro Comp shocks.
Which mod is going to get me further and if it is the diff which one should I go for and what other parts will have to be changed. e.g. half shafts?
Thanks
JimexPL said:
I've started using my Landy a bit more again. Taking it down quite a tough route today I got stuck twice - Once in a cross axle situation with a rear wheel off the ground and a second time when the front and rear diff grounded out in some deep ruts.
Currently the car has decent tyres and I dont want to go any larger because of rubbing problems (265/75/16), 2" lift and extended Pro Comp shocks.
Which mod is going to get me further and if it is the diff which one should I go for and what other parts will have to be changed. e.g. half shafts?
Thanks
I agree the driver mod counts for a lot Currently the car has decent tyres and I dont want to go any larger because of rubbing problems (265/75/16), 2" lift and extended Pro Comp shocks.
Which mod is going to get me further and if it is the diff which one should I go for and what other parts will have to be changed. e.g. half shafts?
Thanks
But as none of us here saw the track you where on, its all hot air.
As for mods, well more flex means keeping more wheels on the ground more of the time.
So less likely to get cross axled. It won't stop you grounding yourself though. And apart from bigger tyres to raise the ground clearance of the diffs there's not much you can do, either that or spend a few grand on converting it to portal axles.
So allowing more droop will work here, dislocation cones are one solution to doing this, but not the only one. However unless you have suitable shocks, mounts, bushes, cranked trailing arms and other parts to allow the extra droop, dislocation cones won't do anything.
Have a look at somewhere like Llarma4x4 for idea's of setups.
As for lockers, yes they will help, but this is more of a brute force an ignorance approach.
Downsides are, you are much more likely to break something (diff, half shafts, CV joints).
Also, if you get stuck with lockers - you are usually REALLY stuck
I do agree that driver is the most significant part.
Although a little out of touch recently, I have spent qutie some time off road in Land Rovers (learnt to drive on the farm at 10 years old in a series IIa, got a 'project' to work on with my father when I was 15, trialled a bit in a series II, green laning in wales, northampton, leicestershire, wiltshire, peak district, plus 2 days desert driving in UAE).
My Landy hasn't seen much use for the last 8 years or so and 4x4s seem to have become a bit more extreme (dislocating springs etc). 10 years ago my car would be about as far as someone would go in terms of mods unless they were competing and I was wondering if the more recent items that have trickled down in to mainstream use were worthwhile additions, or if I was better off getting stuck when my skill runs out and use the winch or get a tow and saving my money.
Although a little out of touch recently, I have spent qutie some time off road in Land Rovers (learnt to drive on the farm at 10 years old in a series IIa, got a 'project' to work on with my father when I was 15, trialled a bit in a series II, green laning in wales, northampton, leicestershire, wiltshire, peak district, plus 2 days desert driving in UAE).
My Landy hasn't seen much use for the last 8 years or so and 4x4s seem to have become a bit more extreme (dislocating springs etc). 10 years ago my car would be about as far as someone would go in terms of mods unless they were competing and I was wondering if the more recent items that have trickled down in to mainstream use were worthwhile additions, or if I was better off getting stuck when my skill runs out and use the winch or get a tow and saving my money.
JimexPL said:
I do agree that driver is the most significant part.
Although a little out of touch recently, I have spent qutie some time off road in Land Rovers (learnt to drive on the farm at 10 years old in a series IIa, got a 'project' to work on with my father when I was 15, trialled a bit in a series II, green laning in wales, northampton, leicestershire, wiltshire, peak district, plus 2 days desert driving in UAE).
My Landy hasn't seen much use for the last 8 years or so and 4x4s seem to have become a bit more extreme (dislocating springs etc). 10 years ago my car would be about as far as someone would go in terms of mods unless they were competing and I was wondering if the more recent items that have trickled down in to mainstream use were worthwhile additions, or if I was better off getting stuck when my skill runs out and use the winch or get a tow and saving my money.
I think it's a tough one to make the call on.Although a little out of touch recently, I have spent qutie some time off road in Land Rovers (learnt to drive on the farm at 10 years old in a series IIa, got a 'project' to work on with my father when I was 15, trialled a bit in a series II, green laning in wales, northampton, leicestershire, wiltshire, peak district, plus 2 days desert driving in UAE).
My Landy hasn't seen much use for the last 8 years or so and 4x4s seem to have become a bit more extreme (dislocating springs etc). 10 years ago my car would be about as far as someone would go in terms of mods unless they were competing and I was wondering if the more recent items that have trickled down in to mainstream use were worthwhile additions, or if I was better off getting stuck when my skill runs out and use the winch or get a tow and saving my money.
Sure all the bits and mods should make a difference. But it's amazing where stock/stock'ish vehicles will go sometimes, even compared to heavily modded ones.
Lockers are an easy fix, but can be costly in the long run.
If you are laning on your own, then a winch is probably a better bet.
As for suspension, well again it should help, but at Land Rover trials often the modded vehicle gets stuck while the stock Series 3 88 on old stiff leaf springs just sails through.
First thing I'd do is swap your 265/75s for 235/85s. I've run both on 90s and the 235s are better - slightly taller but more importantly on a lighter vehicle like a 90 or SWB series based motor, they provide better ground pressure compared to the 265s.
Next thing to do is find out what currently limits your axle droop - is it the springs, dampers or something else? I've often found that even longer dampers often limit the springs from reaching full extension. The rear springs on my 90 would pop out of the top mounts without the need for any dislocation cones but then had to be manually pushed back in so I simply fabricated some 'dislocation sliders' from 4 large flattened jubilee clips which allowed the springs to dislocate on droop, but forced them to relocate as the axle came back up.
If this still isn't good enough, you could try some lockers. I personally don't like air-lockers because of the complexity of compressors and pressurised pipes running to the axles. I had a detroit locker in the back and a truetrac up front. Detroits used to be snatchy old things but they're much better now though you do have to remember how they work - they are always locked until some differential action is needed and then they briefly unlock. The only time you really have to watch them is on ice when they like going sideways!
Next thing to do is find out what currently limits your axle droop - is it the springs, dampers or something else? I've often found that even longer dampers often limit the springs from reaching full extension. The rear springs on my 90 would pop out of the top mounts without the need for any dislocation cones but then had to be manually pushed back in so I simply fabricated some 'dislocation sliders' from 4 large flattened jubilee clips which allowed the springs to dislocate on droop, but forced them to relocate as the axle came back up.
If this still isn't good enough, you could try some lockers. I personally don't like air-lockers because of the complexity of compressors and pressurised pipes running to the axles. I had a detroit locker in the back and a truetrac up front. Detroits used to be snatchy old things but they're much better now though you do have to remember how they work - they are always locked until some differential action is needed and then they briefly unlock. The only time you really have to watch them is on ice when they like going sideways!
BigLepton said:
First thing I'd do is swap your 265/75s for 235/85s. I've run both on 90s and the 235s are better - slightly taller but more importantly on a lighter vehicle like a 90 or SWB series based motor, they provide better ground pressure compared to the 265s.
My mistake. I'd actually got 235/85s on on the weekend (I also have 265/75s on a set of alloy wheels but don't use them much).The shocks are nearing the end of their life (only about 20,000 miles, but 10 years old with rusty casings), so I will look into replacing them with somtething that gives me a decent amount of travel.
I'll do a controlled cross axle situation this weekend and see what is limiting the travel.
you can fit a set of 255/85 if you need to which will provide a good change under the diffs.
as to improving the truck, hmmm. if you got utterly cross axled and lifted a wheel well clear of the ground then just fitting dislocation cones won't help- whilst yes they can increase articulation they don't help as much as some make out- if an axle is fully off its spring then it has almost no ground pressure anyway and it won't help you out.
Look out for a second hand ARB, or even an autolocker (orunlocker) like a truetrack or detroit. For non competitive off road use they are really very very good
Alternatively fit a winch.
as to improving the truck, hmmm. if you got utterly cross axled and lifted a wheel well clear of the ground then just fitting dislocation cones won't help- whilst yes they can increase articulation they don't help as much as some make out- if an axle is fully off its spring then it has almost no ground pressure anyway and it won't help you out.
Look out for a second hand ARB, or even an autolocker (orunlocker) like a truetrack or detroit. For non competitive off road use they are really very very good
Alternatively fit a winch.
I've already got a milemarker hydraulic winch linked up to an uprated power steering pump. Pulls really well (as long as the engine is still running...)
Your point about lack of load on the wheel if the spring is fully unloaded makes sense.
I'll keep an eye out for a reasonably priced diff, but need to renew my rear shocks first.
Your point about lack of load on the wheel if the spring is fully unloaded makes sense.
I'll keep an eye out for a reasonably priced diff, but need to renew my rear shocks first.
JimexPL said:
I've already got a milemarker hydraulic winch linked up to an uprated power steering pump. Pulls really well (as long as the engine is still running...)
Your point about lack of load on the wheel if the spring is fully unloaded makes sense.
I'll keep an eye out for a reasonably priced diff, but need to renew my rear shocks first.
good man- a hydraulic boy-they're the way to go Your point about lack of load on the wheel if the spring is fully unloaded makes sense.
I'll keep an eye out for a reasonably priced diff, but need to renew my rear shocks first.
i have a custom PTO setup running an uprated milemarker- pulls about 50ft/min at 12,000lb in low range. That's about 25 times quicker than a standard 8274, and its roughly six times as fast as an 8274 on respool- not much good for drive assisting though!
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