Hilux auto vs manual
Poll: Hilux auto vs manual
Total Members Polled: 11
Discussion
Potentially getting a new Hilux work ute soon (currently chugging around in a 2014 Hilux) and tossing up whether to angle for manual or auto (though it may depend on availability too).
For the most part I'm a manual guy through and through, most autos end up irritating me to varying degrees. I live in small-town rural NZ so I have minimal city traffic driving, lots of twisty hilly roads and gravel, and a bit of proper off-road use (for both work and play). Only occasional towing.
So in general manual suits my use best and I enjoy it more, I prefer the direct control rather than waiting for a computer to second-guess what I want to do.
But the current Hilux has a substantial torque difference between the auto and manual, 500Nm (369lbft) auto vs 420Nm (309lbft) manual. I'm guessing the manual is detuned/torque limited to protect the gearbox, and can't help wondering if everything is just optimised more for the auto with the manual as an afterthought option for traditionalists.
Have any of you fine folk driven both manual and auto versions of the current model Hilux to give some feedback on how they drive, how much you can feel the difference in torque etc?
For the most part I'm a manual guy through and through, most autos end up irritating me to varying degrees. I live in small-town rural NZ so I have minimal city traffic driving, lots of twisty hilly roads and gravel, and a bit of proper off-road use (for both work and play). Only occasional towing.
So in general manual suits my use best and I enjoy it more, I prefer the direct control rather than waiting for a computer to second-guess what I want to do.
But the current Hilux has a substantial torque difference between the auto and manual, 500Nm (369lbft) auto vs 420Nm (309lbft) manual. I'm guessing the manual is detuned/torque limited to protect the gearbox, and can't help wondering if everything is just optimised more for the auto with the manual as an afterthought option for traditionalists.
Have any of you fine folk driven both manual and auto versions of the current model Hilux to give some feedback on how they drive, how much you can feel the difference in torque etc?
How much of that extra torque makes it through the auto box to the final drive? You might find the auto trans losses suck so much, there is the sweet sum of nothing between the two models. What do the figures on papers suggest? Are the final drive ratios the same on both models? Etc etc!
I haven't driven a 2.8 but I did drive both manual and auto versions of the 2.4 before I bought my manual version.
The auto was OK but seemed quite keen to rev the engine rather than rely on the torque. I found it a bit annoying that hills, speeding up or overtaking caused it to downshift when it didn't really need to and I imagine towing something heavy would mean a lot of time with the engine roaring away at 3000+ rpm. In the manual, even though it's quite slow, there's a big slug of torque between 1500rpm and 2500rpm so you can make decent progress without feeling like you're thrashing it. The extra power of the 2.8 might be enough to mask this but I would definitely have a decent drive of one to be sure.
Overall great truck though - completely reliable as expected, in 120k and 8 years it's had one set of tyres, a set of wiper blades, a set of front brake pads and a headlight bulb. Cheapest thing I've ever run even at low thirties mpg.
It happily plods along at 60 with 3.5T on the back, is comically high geared in 6th so will cruise quietly at 85 and despite being the cheapskate active version is easily comfortable enough that I've driven from Amsterdam to Aberdeenshire in one go stopping only for fuel and ferry. Only complaints are the crap stereo and jiggly ride at low speed if it's empty.
The auto was OK but seemed quite keen to rev the engine rather than rely on the torque. I found it a bit annoying that hills, speeding up or overtaking caused it to downshift when it didn't really need to and I imagine towing something heavy would mean a lot of time with the engine roaring away at 3000+ rpm. In the manual, even though it's quite slow, there's a big slug of torque between 1500rpm and 2500rpm so you can make decent progress without feeling like you're thrashing it. The extra power of the 2.8 might be enough to mask this but I would definitely have a decent drive of one to be sure.
Overall great truck though - completely reliable as expected, in 120k and 8 years it's had one set of tyres, a set of wiper blades, a set of front brake pads and a headlight bulb. Cheapest thing I've ever run even at low thirties mpg.
It happily plods along at 60 with 3.5T on the back, is comically high geared in 6th so will cruise quietly at 85 and despite being the cheapskate active version is easily comfortable enough that I've driven from Amsterdam to Aberdeenshire in one go stopping only for fuel and ferry. Only complaints are the crap stereo and jiggly ride at low speed if it's empty.
Thanks for the thoughts.
They don't even sell the 2.4 here as far as I can see but I'd still go for the 2.8 if they did!
They do say the manual 2.8 has a wider band of peak torque than the auto so maybe its tuned for a bit more flexibility where the auto tries to stay in a narrower but higher powerband. They also quote better fuel economy for the manual.
Still have to wait for company directors approval (sounding positive but they may yet decide to get a new vehicle themselves and give me a hand-me-down instead) so I'm waiting for that before talking to the local dealer about availability etc.
They don't even sell the 2.4 here as far as I can see but I'd still go for the 2.8 if they did!
They do say the manual 2.8 has a wider band of peak torque than the auto so maybe its tuned for a bit more flexibility where the auto tries to stay in a narrower but higher powerband. They also quote better fuel economy for the manual.
Still have to wait for company directors approval (sounding positive but they may yet decide to get a new vehicle themselves and give me a hand-me-down instead) so I'm waiting for that before talking to the local dealer about availability etc.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 12th February 21:15
GravelBen said:
Thanks for the thoughts.
They don't even sell the 2.4 here as far as I can see but I'd still go for the 2.8 if they did!
As would I! Mine is an early mk8 when the 2.4 was the only option. In fairness it's actually perfectly fine, even coming from a 4.2TD Land Cruiser but there are a few times when a bit more oomph would be good - mostly for "enthusiastic" uphill overtaking! They don't even sell the 2.4 here as far as I can see but I'd still go for the 2.8 if they did!
Pretty much every time I have to overtake someone in my current 2014 3.0 Hilux I miss my old Legacy GTB... I reckon the 2014 feels slower than the 2007 Hilux I had before it, and slower than my old '96 3.2td Nissan Terrano as well!
At least I still have an MX5 for fun driving.
At least I still have an MX5 for fun driving.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 12th February 23:24
GravelBen said:
Pretty much every time I have to overtake someone in my current 2014 3.0 Hilux I miss my old Legacy GTB... I reckon the 2014 feels slower than the 2007 Hilux I had before it, and slower than my old '96 3.2td Nissan Terrano as well!
At least I still have an MX5 for fun driving.
The only Hilux I have had was a 2000 2.4, around 90-100 bhp. That was slow!At least I still have an MX5 for fun driving.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 12th February 23:24
I have had 2 of the latest model here (only 2.4l available)
both around 150bhp drives great the auto makes all driving easy the car is not fast but great for all the conditions we use it for
on a run around 8.5l per 100km around town 10-11l per 100km.
The first one (2021 model) we did 55k KM we did not have a single issue with the car, nothing requiring a dealer visit, other than the servicing.
the later model (2023) has some better features so we changed ours out , the new one had a vibrating noise behind the dash from day one
this was dealt with buy the dealer at the 1k check.
It is the air box pipe through the inner wing (as found on YT)
Ours is the Invicible model we had the tinted front side windows and the PPF added from new,
Switching to The Toyota from Land Rovers was the best choice/decision we made.
The 2.4 can be chipped to take it to 200BHP I believe but we have not bothered.
I would have opted for the 2.8 if I had the choice.
Lastly there are some good YT videos from AUS with them showing the new Hilux is all terrains and all the features, may be worth viewing to help you decide?
both around 150bhp drives great the auto makes all driving easy the car is not fast but great for all the conditions we use it for
on a run around 8.5l per 100km around town 10-11l per 100km.
The first one (2021 model) we did 55k KM we did not have a single issue with the car, nothing requiring a dealer visit, other than the servicing.
the later model (2023) has some better features so we changed ours out , the new one had a vibrating noise behind the dash from day one
this was dealt with buy the dealer at the 1k check.
It is the air box pipe through the inner wing (as found on YT)
Ours is the Invicible model we had the tinted front side windows and the PPF added from new,
Switching to The Toyota from Land Rovers was the best choice/decision we made.
The 2.4 can be chipped to take it to 200BHP I believe but we have not bothered.
I would have opted for the 2.8 if I had the choice.
Lastly there are some good YT videos from AUS with them showing the new Hilux is all terrains and all the features, may be worth viewing to help you decide?
I have little experience of the modern Hilux, but I do have a 2018 1.9 AT35 D-Max manual. Being on larger tyres than standard, but with unchanged gearing you end up with a proper cruisy motorway gear; but then down changes to 5th are necessary on hills with a load.
One feature that is lovely that many D-Max buyers don't spot is that the manual has an anti-stall feature. What this means is that if you find yourself in stop start traffic you can edge along in first gear feet off all the pedals with no worries just like an auto - which is quite pleasant!
You can use the same trick to climb hills off-road at a steady rate, again with feet off all the pedals.
I'm not sure if the Hilux has it, but it would be a useful question to ask and maybe test on a demo drive. Toyota and Isuzu have strong links and I was once told that there was a connecting door between D-Max & Hilux factories, which I haven't been able to verify.
I was leant a 2023 D-Max for a few days while mine was in for service. It has a more car like driving position and locking diff, but aside from that I liked mine more. HTH.
One feature that is lovely that many D-Max buyers don't spot is that the manual has an anti-stall feature. What this means is that if you find yourself in stop start traffic you can edge along in first gear feet off all the pedals with no worries just like an auto - which is quite pleasant!
You can use the same trick to climb hills off-road at a steady rate, again with feet off all the pedals.
I'm not sure if the Hilux has it, but it would be a useful question to ask and maybe test on a demo drive. Toyota and Isuzu have strong links and I was once told that there was a connecting door between D-Max & Hilux factories, which I haven't been able to verify.
I was leant a 2023 D-Max for a few days while mine was in for service. It has a more car like driving position and locking diff, but aside from that I liked mine more. HTH.
My automatic assumption is the auto has more torque to compensate for the loss through the gearbox, theyre probably very similar to the ground. I have nothing to base that on though.
My dad was a hill farmer regularly towing floats of 30-50 sheep or half a dozen cows, he always used a manual for towing. When he did get a courtesy truck while his was in it was an auto Ranger, more power but in auto mode he hated it. Ended up using it in the 'manual' mode of the auto box.
My dad was a hill farmer regularly towing floats of 30-50 sheep or half a dozen cows, he always used a manual for towing. When he did get a courtesy truck while his was in it was an auto Ranger, more power but in auto mode he hated it. Ended up using it in the 'manual' mode of the auto box.
sassthathoopie said:
I have little experience of the modern Hilux, but I do have a 2018 1.9 AT35 D-Max manual. Being on larger tyres than standard, but with unchanged gearing you end up with a proper cruisy motorway gear; but then down changes to 5th are necessary on hills with a load.
One feature that is lovely that many D-Max buyers don't spot is that the manual has an anti-stall feature. What this means is that if you find yourself in stop start traffic you can edge along in first gear feet off all the pedals with no worries just like an auto - which is quite pleasant!
You can use the same trick to climb hills off-road at a steady rate, again with feet off all the pedals.
I'm not sure if the Hilux has it, but it would be a useful question to ask and maybe test on a demo drive. Toyota and Isuzu have strong links and I was once told that there was a connecting door between D-Max & Hilux factories, which I haven't been able to verify.
I was leant a 2023 D-Max for a few days while mine was in for service. It has a more car like driving position and locking diff, but aside from that I liked mine more. HTH.
Yep, same anti stall features in the mk8 Hilux. 6th is really high even on standard tyres and you need to be bowling along at 65 before it's sensible to use but it does make it surprisingly refined at 75mph+ on a long fast run. One feature that is lovely that many D-Max buyers don't spot is that the manual has an anti-stall feature. What this means is that if you find yourself in stop start traffic you can edge along in first gear feet off all the pedals with no worries just like an auto - which is quite pleasant!
You can use the same trick to climb hills off-road at a steady rate, again with feet off all the pedals.
I'm not sure if the Hilux has it, but it would be a useful question to ask and maybe test on a demo drive. Toyota and Isuzu have strong links and I was once told that there was a connecting door between D-Max & Hilux factories, which I haven't been able to verify.
I was leant a 2023 D-Max for a few days while mine was in for service. It has a more car like driving position and locking diff, but aside from that I liked mine more. HTH.
Janluke said:
I was looking at the Dmax the other day. Salesman said approx 60% of sales are autos, the local farmers(Scotland) especially. Obviously salesman talk should be taken with a pinch of salt
First gear ratio in the manual dmax is too high for pulling away from stationary with 3.5t on the rear, be it a loaded livestock trailer or something else. You end up slipping the clutch, hence most dmax used by farmers are autos.Update: test drove an auto, local dealer didn't have a new manual in stock for a back-to-back test but I've driven a 2018-ish manual one which has most of the same bits.
The auto wasn't bad but it still had just enough of that traditional autobox delay while it thinks about things for a moment before responding. Not a huge deal but enough to bug me a little. I'm sure you get used it and drive around the delay (and it might be clever enough to learn your driving style over time), but I'd rather have the simplicity and directness of a manual.
The auto test drive combined with being able to get the higher spec SR5 manual for the same price as the base spec SR auto made it a fairly easy decision to go with the manual.
The manual also has 2mpg better fuel economy figures, though that's not much of an issue for a work vehicle.
Now I just have to wait a week or two for before ordering because the company wants to push it into the next financial year, and then probably another 2 or 3 months for it to actually arrive in stock...
The auto wasn't bad but it still had just enough of that traditional autobox delay while it thinks about things for a moment before responding. Not a huge deal but enough to bug me a little. I'm sure you get used it and drive around the delay (and it might be clever enough to learn your driving style over time), but I'd rather have the simplicity and directness of a manual.
The auto test drive combined with being able to get the higher spec SR5 manual for the same price as the base spec SR auto made it a fairly easy decision to go with the manual.
The manual also has 2mpg better fuel economy figures, though that's not much of an issue for a work vehicle.
Now I just have to wait a week or two for before ordering because the company wants to push it into the next financial year, and then probably another 2 or 3 months for it to actually arrive in stock...
Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 23 March 00:41
LimaDelta said:
I had the 2.4 manual, then the 2.8 auto, so not a direct comparison, but I much preferred the auto, and the extra 50 bhp. Light estate work, no heavy towing, no 'competitive/deliberate' off-roading.
Out of interest, did you notice much increase in fuel consumption?The figures I see reported on various Facebook groups seem terrible compared to what I'm getting in my manual 2.4 Active - low to mid thirties all day long despite all terrain tyres and my driving definitely being on the enthusiastic side. The only time it drops far into the the 20s is if I spend much time cruising at 80+ or stick 3.5T on the back.
Forgot to update this thread! I've had it a few weeks now and happy that manual was the right choice for me, no regrets on that decision.
The gear ratios with the 6-speed seem a bit better judged in general than the old 2014 Hilux 5-speed, 1st is lower and doesn't tend to bog down pulling away the way the 2014 did. 6th is definitely a cruising gear, for undulating winding roads in the 50-60mph speed range its happier if you stay in 5th.
The 2.8 is noticeably torquier than the old 3.0 as well as being much smoother and quieter, the power band feels a bit wider and more flexible low down.
Overall compared to the 2014 it's pretty much as you expect for 10 years newer model - smoother, quieter, more civilised, less body roll. Lighter controls but less feel.
Pedal spacing is a bit awkward for H&T shifting unfortunately, but it does have an 'intelligent manual' option that automatically rev-matches gearshifts.
I'm a bit unaccustomed to most of the electronic nanny driver aids, but that would be the case with any new car - at least most of them you can adjust the sensitivity/intrusiveness or turn them off when you need to.
Its averaging around 28mpg so far, a bit better than the 2014 did with the same AT tyres (and the same enthusiastic driver). I imagine that will improve a bit as it runs in.
The gear ratios with the 6-speed seem a bit better judged in general than the old 2014 Hilux 5-speed, 1st is lower and doesn't tend to bog down pulling away the way the 2014 did. 6th is definitely a cruising gear, for undulating winding roads in the 50-60mph speed range its happier if you stay in 5th.
The 2.8 is noticeably torquier than the old 3.0 as well as being much smoother and quieter, the power band feels a bit wider and more flexible low down.
Overall compared to the 2014 it's pretty much as you expect for 10 years newer model - smoother, quieter, more civilised, less body roll. Lighter controls but less feel.
Pedal spacing is a bit awkward for H&T shifting unfortunately, but it does have an 'intelligent manual' option that automatically rev-matches gearshifts.
I'm a bit unaccustomed to most of the electronic nanny driver aids, but that would be the case with any new car - at least most of them you can adjust the sensitivity/intrusiveness or turn them off when you need to.
Its averaging around 28mpg so far, a bit better than the 2014 did with the same AT tyres (and the same enthusiastic driver). I imagine that will improve a bit as it runs in.
Edited by GravelBen on Wednesday 12th June 07:20
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