Crossing the Pyrenees East to West

Crossing the Pyrenees East to West

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blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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There was a bit of interest in this in the overlanding thread the other week, so thought I'd post some pics and words about our traverse of the Pyrenees. I don't pretend to be the most seasoned explorer, we've done a bit, and I've tried to explain things here for those who might want to consider doing similar but don't know where to start. I know there are people on this forum that have crossed Africa and probably further than that, which is a whole level up from this.



In June 2019 we took our Defender down to the Pyrenees to do some off-tarmac exploring and to try to recapture the sense of remoteness and adventure we had the previous year when we drove down to the Moroccan Sahara. The Pyrenees are criss-crossed with tracks that were originally pilgrim or smugglers routes or used by cattle herders (and still are), that are now a popular destination for hikers, MTBs, motorbikes, quads and 4x4s. They are mostly open for anyone to drive unless sign-posted otherwise or gated off and there are various rules relating to courteous use of the tracks, prevention of wild-fires and to limit vehicle group sizes, but as we are not re-enacting a rally raid and are travelling as a single vehicles, nothing much to worry about. Despite the popularity, it is still entirely possible to go an entire day of driving and not see another soul and on many days you might only pass 1 or 2 other people, so the feeling of remoteness is there despite only being an hour or 2 from the nearest town most of the time. There were a couple of tracks where, judging by the ground conditions, were the first (or very nearly) vehicle to drive them that year.




There are lots of options from just a day out on the tracks, to multi day trip which we were looking for. Having done a fair bit of Google research we decided it would be a bit of fun to attempt a traverse of the Pyrenees from Mediterranean to Atlantic which apparently could be done in around 10 days consisting of roughly 700km off road and 600km on tarmac. Camping in a different place each night. We drove there and back as swiftly as possible on the French Peage, which is really tedious in a Defender at 65mph, especially going home, and it's not cheap either, a Defender is in a more expensive toll category than a standard car. Next time I'd get the ferry to Santander or Bilbao.




Navigation for these types of trips can be a bit daunting at first as your usual TomTom type road systems are generally no use once you leave the tarmac. Ideally you'll want a map based GPS navigation app that shows something akin to an OS map for the area you are going to. You don't need to spend a fortune. A smart phone or cheap GPS enabled tablet is all you need in terms of hardware. I use an Android App called Locus Maps which I run on a small tablet mounted on the dashboard. The app has a built-in map store where you can buy all manner of digital maps for just about anywhere in the world.



Once you've got the navigation system sorted, you need a route to follow. You can either manually plot a route on the map in Locus Maps, or you can download routes created by others as .gpx files and follow those. The way you follow routes off road is not the same as turn based navigation on road. Your route will consist of a load of waypoints (many hundreds for long trips) each representing a junction or other landmark you want to pass through. The nav app then simply joins these up with straight lines like a dot-to-dot, in a sort of as the crow flies path overlaid onto your map of choice. It won't tell you which way to turn at a junction and as the tracks wind and twist between waypoints you may at times look to be a long way from the marked route and wondering where on earth you are going. But this is what makes the journey fun and gives a sense of adventure, especially if you can get your passenger (Wife in my case) involved as a navigator. There is a job to be done in looking ahead at the waypoints and detail of the map to ensure you stay on the right path and know which way to go at a fork in the road.



In the end we were provided with the GPS route when we also purchased a road book of the route from a small French company (www.vibraction.org), consisting of hundreds and hundreds of tulip diagrams corresponding to the GPS waypoints with information on the exact distance between each one and which way to go when you get there. With the roadbook it is theoretically possible to navigate the entire route without a map at all. All you need is a trip meter (I use a free Android App). Again this is great to try with your passenger as it gets them involved with the route and where you are going. The tulip diagrams are a good fall back when there is a mistake in the GPS waypoints, of which we encountered a couple. Our route began briefly in Collioure on the French Med coast, crossing almost immediately into Spain for the bulk of the trip.




Vehicle prep is another big uncertainty for a trip like this if you haven’t done it before, but very little is actually needed. Reliability is the main thing. Pretty much any standard 4x4 is more than adequate for pyrenees in the summer. A low range transfer box is good to have but you could probably manage without one in something like a Discovery Sport. I would say some proper all terrain tyres with a sensible profile are essential in any case as it would be easy to cut a sidewall on a rock and be stranded with a flat, especially if you like to let some air out off road. I don’t bother with a winch, but I do take a quick deflator, heavy duty 12v air compressor, puncture repair kit, hi-lift jack and recovery kit (which can be used as a makeshift winch if the need ever arises).

Tracks are mostly dry and hard packed in summer, with some rocky sections that require a bit of extra care and thought. It would be worth doing a bit of off road driving closer to home before you go, just so you get a feeling for what obstacles can be tackled, how to tackle them in your car and how it behaves on loose climbs and descents. In the wet or snow it would be a different story with mud and/or snow drifts being a major challenge even for a well prepared vehicle. There was plenty of evidence of prior washouts and snow drifts.




For accommodation, we always camp, we go quite basic, no glamping here! I use a Oztent ground tent which is very very quick to put up and down and it’s big enough to accommodate us and the dog and you can stand up in it easily. You don’t want to be mauling with some monstrosity of a tent when you are moving to a new place every day. The down size to the Oztent is that it is over 2m long when folded so has to go up on the roof bars for transport. A lot of folk use roof tents, but they don’t appeal to us. The only real luxury we have is a proper 12v compressor fridge that can keep everything ice cold no matter how hot it is outside. I’ve had those 12v coolers in the past and they are junk by comparison.




To find campsites, we didn’t book anything in advance, we would just pull over around lunch time (or when we could get a signal) on the day and do some Googling for campsites. The roadbook we used also had some suggestions for campsites in it if we were struggling to choose. There are usually at least a couple near most towns and we never once were wondering if we would find somewhere. If you did this trip during school holidays it might be prudent to plan a bit more in advance than we did. I would think it would be almost as easy to do this type of trip staying in B&Bs if you aren't the camping type.

The whole thing was a great experience up in stunning mountains, finding abandoned villages, seeing soaring vultures etc. The highest point we reached was just over 2000m and the vistas are trust jaw dropping. You'd never get tired of seeing this type of scenery.








We particularly enjoyed the feeling of solitude from the abandoned vehicles, buildings, churches, castles and even whole villages you find along the way. It's had to believe you are still in Western Europe at times.






Something completely novel to me was the Spanish take on cattle grids, dodgy looking electrified gates across the track with some insulating foam on the tip of each half. You just driving through them hoping the pin stripes they leave down your bodywork are not too deep!




Edited by blueST on Friday 6th August 16:45

walamai

457 posts

214 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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This is a great write up, cheers! I'm one of 'those people' having driven to Sydney from London, taken a black cab around India and a few other less intrepid type things, but it never occurred to me that you could properly get off the tarmac in Europe like this.

Definitely on my 'must do' list now!

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Friday 6th August 2021
quotequote all
walamai said:
This is a great write up, cheers! I'm one of 'those people' having driven to Sydney from London, taken a black cab around India and a few other less intrepid type things, but it never occurred to me that you could properly get off the tarmac in Europe like this.

Definitely on my 'must do' list now!
We dream of doing a long overland trip like you have one day, but can't see a way out of the daily grind that wouldn't lead to us being destitute! The great thing about the Pyrenees is you can get there and enjoy it from the uk in a normal holiday length break.

Desiderata

2,575 posts

61 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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Brilliant, I didn't know you could do so much of it in a vehicle. I've done about 30 days over a few years on foot with the aim of it all adding up to the full length albeit a bit out of order. I've now got a long term leg injury which may or may not allow me to resume the journey some time. I'd love to fill in some of the gaps in a vehicle if not.
It looks like a lot of what you did was on the Spanish side. Was that easier to find a route? I've done most of my walking on the French Grand Randonnes and to be honest, wouldn't like to try that route in a vehicle.

Bill

54,242 posts

262 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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Thanks for posting this up. beer I used to reckon the hardest part of travelling was giving up a perfectly good job, but now with a house etc it's even more complicated!

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Friday 6th August 2021
quotequote all
Desiderata said:
Brilliant, I didn't know you could do so much of it in a vehicle. I've done about 30 days over a few years on foot with the aim of it all adding up to the full length albeit a bit out of order. I've now got a long term leg injury which may or may not allow me to resume the journey some time. I'd love to fill in some of the gaps in a vehicle if not.
It looks like a lot of what you did was on the Spanish side. Was that easier to find a route? I've done most of my walking on the French Grand Randonnes and to be honest, wouldn't like to try that route in a vehicle.
We started in France at Collioure and climbed up from there into Spain by afternoon on the first day. It a bit weird as there are no indications when crossing into Spain, no signs, buildings, nothing. I just noticed that the design of road signs was slightly different then realised for certain at the next village. From there it was all in Spain for 10 or so days then drop down to St Jean Pied de Port in France at the very end.

From what I gather there are tracks on French side that can be driven, but not as many and they are busier.

Gnits

941 posts

208 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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That looks excellent, was looking to do this before the Covid issue.
I always avoid the peage and just take back roads, it does not take much longer and is far cheaper and more interesting

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Friday 6th August 2021
quotequote all
Gnits said:
That looks excellent, was looking to do this before the Covid issue.
I always avoid the peage and just take back roads, it does not take much longer and is far cheaper and more interesting
I have tried staying off the peage in the past, but my experience is that it does add a lot of time. You go from a straight-ish route averaging say 60mph, to a more meandering route where it’s difficult to average 40 ( in a Defender at least).

camel_landy

5,084 posts

190 months

Friday 6th August 2021
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Thanks for writing this up. It's a trip that looks really interesting and I like the option of the road book. smile

As for those who might be considering getting into Overlanding, the hardest part is getting that first date in the diary. Everyone says "I'd love to do that" but there's usually a reason why... Kids, mortgage, promotion, etc. If you really want to do a big trip, pick a date (12-18mths away), stick it in the diary and then make it happen.

M

Ranger 6

7,184 posts

256 months

Saturday 7th August 2021
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Many thanks for posting this - I did mention in the other thread that I'd PM, however you've included a good amount of detail including the Vibraction road book. That's well promoted on other forums including the Land Rover ones.

I've had experience on the tracks a while ago on an organised trip. We landed at Toulouse and picked up some trucks - 4-Runners, Patrols etc and went into the mountains. Staying at lodges and mountain refuges we had a stunning time in the hills canyoning, dinghy down rapids and bridge swinging, ending up in Andorra City before heading home. Three days of adventure and cross country exploits was great.

I'm now in the position where I've got a 90 and would like to go back. We were all ready to go by ferry in 2020 however the lockdown in March stopped us booking and we have put the trip on hold ever since. There's 3 of us, a 90, Shogun and a D4. Out plan is to ferry to northern Spain, a week out in the hills on the trails and then home again. That's because I simply don't have the time to do the coast to coast.

I'd be interested to know which trails would be a 'must do' - we'd be happy to bypass the less interesting ones by road and then circle le back to the ferry.

If you were doing just a few trails, would the vibraction road book be an essential? We've all got rallying experience so tulips are comfortably familiar.

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Saturday 7th August 2021
quotequote all
For me, if I had only had a few days, I’d concentrate on the East or Central Pyrenees. I thought the scenery more spectacular, the tracks more interesting to drive and a greater feeling of remoteness. I’d try to avoid July and August as fires can be a big problem and tracks get closed. We went early June and still had day time temps over 40c (which the Defender didn’t like). Also the campsites will be busy then.

In terms of finding routes, you’ve got three main options really.

1) Just look at a map, see what grabs your fancy and go and explore. All of the tracks we used were shown on the digital map we used, so this perfectly possible, but unless you know the area it’s pot luck what you’ll find and you may end up disappointed and tuning back, or discover the greatest off-road drive of your life.

2) Get on the Wikiloc app and download some routes in the area you want to explore. Probably your best option for a short break. definitely handy if you want to base yourself in one place and radiate out each day somewhere different. Just read the reviews and comments to get a feel for the nature of the route and that it is definitely legal.

3) Buy one of the Vibraction road books. Probably the priciest option, but not ridiculous if you split amongst a few of you. They have quite a bit of choice of shorter routes than than the one we did. Best suited if you want to travel and stay somewhere different each night. The main advantage is you know it’s a well research route and will see some good stuff. Be aware that the road books are entirely in French. Doesn’t affect the tulip diagrams, but all the tourist information in there that you've paid for will take some translating. Also, check that the book you want comes with .gpx file for your navigation. I think they all do, but not 100% certain.




mikeiow

6,222 posts

137 months

Sunday 8th August 2021
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That looks awesome!
Out of idle curiosity (I don't have a landie, but do have a reasonably capable XC60 FWD) - the shots you posted look eminently possible in a non-4WD/AWD motor - how much of your route would you say required 4WD/AWD?

I do appreciate you may not have taken shots of the trickier parts (the second day of my LEJoG included 50mph gales and pi$$ing rain - as well as almost 6,000ft climbing - I didn't get much in the way of photos that day!!)


blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Sunday 8th August 2021
quotequote all
As long as you have a bit of ground clearance, much of it is possible in a road biased SUV in the summer. Maybe 50%+ is accessible. The problem is when you get to a little bit you don’t like the look of. The tracks are mostly fairly smooth. It comes down to how much abuse you are happy to give your tyres and clutch (torque converter auto would be a help) and if you don’t mind scraping the under tray or the nose every now and again. You can imagine a tight steep uphill gravel hairpin, which are common, 2wd is going to spinning wheels trying the claw it’s way up. The main problem is when you are driving all day on loose stones and gravel your tyres do pick up a lot of little cuts and chunks on the tread and sidewalls which I think could cause problems on low profile road tyres. A decent height tyre, preferably an AT. We quite often saw local shepherds razzing up the tracks in ancient little fwd Renault vans.

I don’t really take pics of 4x4 element of the trips but this is an example of the sort of thing you might come across fairly often on an otherwise easy track. The Defender will just drive up that, but I wouldn’t fancy it in fwd XC60.



Edited by blueST on Sunday 8th August 12:51


Edited by blueST on Sunday 8th August 20:28

Ranger 6

7,184 posts

256 months

Monday 9th August 2021
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Thanks thumbup

Fonzo

152 posts

66 months

Monday 9th August 2021
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This thread has got me pretty interested in doing something like this. Thanks for posting it.

mikeiow

6,222 posts

137 months

Monday 9th August 2021
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blueST said:
As long as you have a bit of ground clearance, much of it is possible in a road biased SUV in the summer. Maybe 50%+ is accessible. The problem is when you get to a little bit you don’t like the look of. The tracks are mostly fairly smooth. It comes down to how much abuse you are happy to give your tyres and clutch (torque converter auto would be a help) and if you don’t mind scraping the under tray or the nose every now and again. You can imagine a tight steep uphill gravel hairpin, which are common, 2wd is going to spinning wheels trying the claw it’s way up. The main problem is when you are driving all day on loose stones and gravel your tyres do pick up a lot of little cuts and chunks on the tread and sidewalls which I think could cause problems on low profile road tyres. A decent height tyre, preferably an AT. We quite often saw local shepherds razzing up the tracks in ancient little fwd Renault vans.

I don’t really take pics of 4x4 element of the trips but this is an example of the sort of thing you might come across fairly often on an otherwise easy track. The Defender will just drive up that, but I wouldn’t fancy it in fwd XC60.

Cool, thanks....indeed, a tad optimistic for me!
Mind you....I did once take our SMax up to Arc2000 on winter tyres when everyone else was parked up in the mini-blizzard, wrestling their chains on, so I must be a driving god...hmmmmm hehe


Walter Sobchak

5,725 posts

231 months

Tuesday 10th August 2021
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This looks great!, how long was the trip?.
I’d love to do something like this, I’ve got two vehicles that would be up to the task, an L322 TDV8 and a 3 door Landcruiser Colorado on ATs, I’d probably air on the side of caution if I were going to be in the middle of nowhere and take the Toyota!, but then you’re limited on how much you can carry.

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Tuesday 10th August 2021
quotequote all
Walter Sobchak said:
This looks great!, how long was the trip?.
I’d love to do something like this, I’ve got two vehicles that would be up to the task, an L322 TDV8 and a 3 door Landcruiser Colorado on ATs, I’d probably air on the side of caution if I were going to be in the middle of nowhere and take the Toyota!, but then you’re limited on how much you can carry.
I think we were 11 days on the route in the end, and we had to skip about half a days worth of it on the last day as we were due to meet family in San Sebastián. You could easily shave a day or 2 off that, but we like to get to camp early, get set up and enjoy the evenings. We would try to be packed and on the move by 9am each morning.

The Colorado is probably the most popular car you see on the trails with other travellers down therethumbup

Walter Sobchak

5,725 posts

231 months

Tuesday 10th August 2021
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blueST said:
I think we were 11 days on the route in the end, and we had to skip about half a days worth of it on the last day as we were due to meet family in San Sebastián. You could easily shave a day or 2 off that, but we like to get to camp early, get set up and enjoy the evenings. We would try to be packed and on the move by 9am each morning.

The Colorado is probably the most popular car you see on the trails with other travellers down therethumbup
That’s not too bad time wise, I might look into doing something similar in the next couple of years, it looks and sounds like a really interesting trip.
Was getting fuel etc easy enough?.
I think comfort wise I’d rather do it in the Rangie but I’d worry about something going wrong, I can imagine it being less than ideal if an air strut, turbo etc were to fail in the arse end of nowhere and having to wait for parts whereas I’d not be too worried in the Toyota, my only worry would be lack of boot space as it’s the short wheelbase but it would probably be ok for carrying enough with the rear seats down or removed.


Edited by Walter Sobchak on Tuesday 10th August 14:20

blueST

Original Poster:

4,477 posts

223 months

Tuesday 10th August 2021
quotequote all
Fuel’s no problem and it’s cheaper than Uk by a good margin. Every town pretty much has a Repsol station and they are usually attendant service too. Because the speed on the trails is low, usually sub-30mph you aren’t doing big miles and so you can go a couple of days in a tank.