Off-Roading vs Track Days
Discussion
I appreciate it's a bit of a, 'how long is a piece of string' type question but I have been day dreaming recently of getting a vehicle purely for a bit of off-roading. There are a couple of relatively local places and even my other half said it would be fun, something the kids would enjoy too. Obvious once Covid restrictions lift!
I like the idea of a track car but in my mind it seems potentially expensive if you're looking at worn tyres, brakes, servicing let alone risk of crashing I suppose. Maybe I'm being naive but is relatively soft-off-roading as much of a strain on a car? I'm not thinking of winches and hardcore stuff but just a bit of fun.
I definitely need to do my homework on the subject. My other half has an ML350cdi but no chance I'll be taking that off road but the old ML270/320cdi seem like a decent and familiar prospect.
Anyone off-road on the cheap or experiences they can share?
I like the idea of a track car but in my mind it seems potentially expensive if you're looking at worn tyres, brakes, servicing let alone risk of crashing I suppose. Maybe I'm being naive but is relatively soft-off-roading as much of a strain on a car? I'm not thinking of winches and hardcore stuff but just a bit of fun.
I definitely need to do my homework on the subject. My other half has an ML350cdi but no chance I'll be taking that off road but the old ML270/320cdi seem like a decent and familiar prospect.
Anyone off-road on the cheap or experiences they can share?
I must admit I do like the look of the Jimny, small fun and light. They look surprisingly capable.
Interestingly I've been on track days albeit as a passenger. I wouldn't want to put the cars I have round a track but a cheap hot hatch would do it. It was a lot of fun I admit. That said, I did an off-roading experience in an L200 and was really impressed. Plus it's technical and methodical which I found really enjoyable. It's certainly not something to be ham fisted about!
Interestingly I've been on track days albeit as a passenger. I wouldn't want to put the cars I have round a track but a cheap hot hatch would do it. It was a lot of fun I admit. That said, I did an off-roading experience in an L200 and was really impressed. Plus it's technical and methodical which I found really enjoyable. It's certainly not something to be ham fisted about!
I'm a recent convert into off roading having come from a trackday background.
I love the throwing a car around a track, the feeling of being on the limit of grip, etc etc. I built my Clio to a good spec with good buckets seats, full roll cage and all that kind of thing. But it is expensive to do and doesn't get any cheaper, certainly not whilst lockdowns keep shoving trackdays further and further back. Then throw in maintenance of the car as well.
Last summer one of my colleagues decided to start off roading again and suggested I join him. I bought my self a standard Freelander 1 knowing it wouldn't be the best but better than nothing. I chucked a decent set of mud tires on and have done a few pay and play days. It's been phenomenal fun, my wife enjoys it a lot more than trackdays and it's much cheaper.
Where a trackday would have been £130+ to even be allowed on it, the pay and play days I've done have been £30. Even throwing in some repairs on the car (a new driveshaft and some filters) and I have still come out paying less than to even book on a trackday.
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
I love the throwing a car around a track, the feeling of being on the limit of grip, etc etc. I built my Clio to a good spec with good buckets seats, full roll cage and all that kind of thing. But it is expensive to do and doesn't get any cheaper, certainly not whilst lockdowns keep shoving trackdays further and further back. Then throw in maintenance of the car as well.
Last summer one of my colleagues decided to start off roading again and suggested I join him. I bought my self a standard Freelander 1 knowing it wouldn't be the best but better than nothing. I chucked a decent set of mud tires on and have done a few pay and play days. It's been phenomenal fun, my wife enjoys it a lot more than trackdays and it's much cheaper.
Where a trackday would have been £130+ to even be allowed on it, the pay and play days I've done have been £30. Even throwing in some repairs on the car (a new driveshaft and some filters) and I have still come out paying less than to even book on a trackday.
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
sideshowfred said:
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
I'd suggest it's more fun and more rewarding, off-roading in something that _isn't_ more capable. It'll teach you more about reading the terrain, gear selection, momentum, etc. 
M
I have an ML270 with big Goodrich AT2s on and it’s surprisingly capable off-road. My local off road centre has different colour runs like a ski slope and it manages quite a few of the black runs, but not the most extreme ones.
The automatic + low range format really does make it a breeze. It’s biggest floor is the lack of ground clearance compared to the more custom made off roaders with lift kits. I had a look into lift kits but there doesn’t seem to be much available for an ML.
They are cheap enough to get into as well that if you slide into a tree it’s not the end of the world, although I’d still rather not do that if possible.
The automatic + low range format really does make it a breeze. It’s biggest floor is the lack of ground clearance compared to the more custom made off roaders with lift kits. I had a look into lift kits but there doesn’t seem to be much available for an ML.
They are cheap enough to get into as well that if you slide into a tree it’s not the end of the world, although I’d still rather not do that if possible.
camel_landy said:
sideshowfred said:
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
I'd suggest it's more fun and more rewarding, off-roading in something that _isn't_ more capable. It'll teach you more about reading the terrain, gear selection, momentum, etc. M
It really has surprised me how capable it is though with some good tyres on it. I've had to take back all the things I said about them over the years! The problem is k find myself wanting to do more extreme pay and play days where I know it will be well out of it's depth
Thanks for all the helpful replies so far.
You have reiterated what I'd been thinking. Trackdays aren't cheap to do as like you say well over £100 just to be on the track, then you have the wear on the car which is to be expected of course. I'd expect you get through tyres and brake pads as well. I love the idea of it but to enjoy something car related purely for the sake of enjoying it, off-roading seemed more wallet friendly. Muddy but less aggressive on the cars you're using.
The local place to me charges £25 a year membership and then opens one weekend a month for pay and play type days. Seems like fun for the kids and what not, especially in the summer.
sideshowfred said:
I'm a recent convert into off roading having come from a trackday background.
I love the throwing a car around a track, the feeling of being on the limit of grip, etc etc. I built my Clio to a good spec with good buckets seats, full roll cage and all that kind of thing. But it is expensive to do and doesn't get any cheaper, certainly not whilst lockdowns keep shoving trackdays further and further back. Then throw in maintenance of the car as well.
Last summer one of my colleagues decided to start off roading again and suggested I join him. I bought my self a standard Freelander 1 knowing it wouldn't be the best but better than nothing. I chucked a decent set of mud tires on and have done a few pay and play days. It's been phenomenal fun, my wife enjoys it a lot more than trackdays and it's much cheaper.
Where a trackday would have been £130+ to even be allowed on it, the pay and play days I've done have been £30. Even throwing in some repairs on the car (a new driveshaft and some filters) and I have still come out paying less than to even book on a trackday.
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
That's really interesting to read. Funnily enough I had a Clio 172 that I modified with a view to doing track days but kids came along and the car had to go sadly. But if I were tracking a car I'd be back in one in a heartbeat. I love the throwing a car around a track, the feeling of being on the limit of grip, etc etc. I built my Clio to a good spec with good buckets seats, full roll cage and all that kind of thing. But it is expensive to do and doesn't get any cheaper, certainly not whilst lockdowns keep shoving trackdays further and further back. Then throw in maintenance of the car as well.
Last summer one of my colleagues decided to start off roading again and suggested I join him. I bought my self a standard Freelander 1 knowing it wouldn't be the best but better than nothing. I chucked a decent set of mud tires on and have done a few pay and play days. It's been phenomenal fun, my wife enjoys it a lot more than trackdays and it's much cheaper.
Where a trackday would have been £130+ to even be allowed on it, the pay and play days I've done have been £30. Even throwing in some repairs on the car (a new driveshaft and some filters) and I have still come out paying less than to even book on a trackday.
It's been souchh fun my track car is now up for sale and I'm planning on getting something much more capable than the Freelander. Add into that grrenlaning and it's hard to go wrong in my eyes.
You have reiterated what I'd been thinking. Trackdays aren't cheap to do as like you say well over £100 just to be on the track, then you have the wear on the car which is to be expected of course. I'd expect you get through tyres and brake pads as well. I love the idea of it but to enjoy something car related purely for the sake of enjoying it, off-roading seemed more wallet friendly. Muddy but less aggressive on the cars you're using.
The local place to me charges £25 a year membership and then opens one weekend a month for pay and play type days. Seems like fun for the kids and what not, especially in the summer.
itz_baseline said:
I have an ML270 with big Goodrich AT2s on and it’s surprisingly capable off-road. My local off road centre has different colour runs like a ski slope and it manages quite a few of the black runs, but not the most extreme ones.
The automatic + low range format really does make it a breeze. It’s biggest floor is the lack of ground clearance compared to the more custom made off roaders with lift kits. I had a look into lift kits but there doesn’t seem to be much available for an ML.
They are cheap enough to get into as well that if you slide into a tree it’s not the end of the world, although I’d still rather not do that if possible.
The first MLs aren’t bad at all to give them their due, like you say with good tyres it’s only really ground clearance that limits them, and lack of locking diffs a little but they are quite capable, a Disco/Range Rover/ Landcruiser/Patrol etc are more capable than one overall but in reality an early ML is going to handle everything most people will throw at it as well as the others and they are good value too.The automatic + low range format really does make it a breeze. It’s biggest floor is the lack of ground clearance compared to the more custom made off roaders with lift kits. I had a look into lift kits but there doesn’t seem to be much available for an ML.
They are cheap enough to get into as well that if you slide into a tree it’s not the end of the world, although I’d still rather not do that if possible.
The later W164s I think is the right designation for the mk2?, aren’t nearly as good without the optional off road pack but the ones with it are very capable too, same goes for the GL except their sheer size!.
I've had a lot of experience at both and honestly, I find off-roading way more nerve-racking. I always have a constant worry that I'm either going to break down in the arse end of nowhere or suffer a nasty rollover.
At track days I am far more relaxed, I don't worry about breakdowns, but I'm more concerned about someone crashing into something I've spent a lot of money on.
If I have to choose a preference, I would go with off-roading. Mainly because my favourite car is a Defender TD5 and getting muddy is a lot of fun.
At track days I am far more relaxed, I don't worry about breakdowns, but I'm more concerned about someone crashing into something I've spent a lot of money on.
If I have to choose a preference, I would go with off-roading. Mainly because my favourite car is a Defender TD5 and getting muddy is a lot of fun.
Alex_225 said:
I appreciate it's a bit of a, 'how long is a piece of string' type question but I have been day dreaming recently of getting a vehicle purely for a bit of off-roading. There are a couple of relatively local places and even my other half said it would be fun, something the kids would enjoy too. Obvious once Covid restrictions lift!
I like the idea of a track car but in my mind it seems potentially expensive if you're looking at worn tyres, brakes, servicing let alone risk of crashing I suppose. Maybe I'm being naive but is relatively soft-off-roading as much of a strain on a car? I'm not thinking of winches and hardcore stuff but just a bit of fun.
I definitely need to do my homework on the subject. My other half has an ML350cdi but no chance I'll be taking that off road but the old ML270/320cdi seem like a decent and familiar prospect.
Anyone off-road on the cheap or experiences they can share?
The thing with track cars is, well what is the point?I like the idea of a track car but in my mind it seems potentially expensive if you're looking at worn tyres, brakes, servicing let alone risk of crashing I suppose. Maybe I'm being naive but is relatively soft-off-roading as much of a strain on a car? I'm not thinking of winches and hardcore stuff but just a bit of fun.
I definitely need to do my homework on the subject. My other half has an ML350cdi but no chance I'll be taking that off road but the old ML270/320cdi seem like a decent and familiar prospect.
Anyone off-road on the cheap or experiences they can share?
Not knocking them at all. But people seem to spend fortunes to drive nowhere but in circles and for no reason. There is no podium and no prize money for track days. Being the slowest could well be as much fun as the fastest, possible more so depending on what you are driving.
I've always preferred competition. If you plan to enter things like auto solos, targa rallies, sprints, climbs, autotest, etc. Then I can see the point in spending on a track car.
As for off roading, there are a few different types.
- Green laning, which technically is ON roading, but we'll call if off road for now. This is more adventure stuff, getting out and seeing places. Making a day or a weekend of it with mates. Map reading and route planning. Pretty much every green lane in the UK should be driveable in a standard 4x4 with nothing more than All Terrain tyres. If it isn't, chances are you shouldn't be were you are. There will be nothing extreme green laning, but it can be very enjoyable.
- Pay & Play (or prick & prat) sites. These are a bit akin to track days really. Can be fun, but after a while you have to consider if it is worth it, as there is no point to them apart from messing about. In the UK all of these sites are relatively small, either in a quarry or at the back of a farm (maybe a couple of exceptions). In places like the USA this isn't the case so much, as they have vastly more room and it may take you several days to see everything at a 4wd Park. Also wheeling in the USA can be a lot more extreme than laning in the UK.
- Competitions. This is the true grass roots motorsports arena. There are lots of different types of off road competition, most common are trials events. These are skill based, rather than speed. And cater for completely standard vehicles, right up to purpose built machines. We have had quite a few people attend over the years who have gone away saying they found it more fun than driving fast cars. But it isn't for everyone, so best to come and see and get a feel.
Off road competitions extend to more extreme activities as well as time based events at the top you get the speed events such as time trials, comp safari and hill rallies. The cost of competing in these is moderately low as an entry threshold, but the risk of breaking stuff is higher. Also if you want to be competitive you'll have to spend the money. Off road racing can be brutal on the body however.
As for vehicle choice. It will largely depend on what you want to do with it. As an extension of the green laning you might find interest in overlanding too.
If you are in the UK, you really should consider Land Rover as a good place to start. Large choice of different vehicle types, huge and accessible parts and specialist. And lots of after market upgrades. More than any other marque by a long way.
There is also the fact that Land Rovers have the largest one make club and run lots of off road events all across the country. In normal times expect there to be a trial or similar at least twice a month locally.
If you go non Land Rover there is the All Wheel Drive Club which allow any makes to compete. But you may find you need something very specific to be competitive, while the Land Rover club cater well for standard vehicles as well as modified.
Here is a trials event setup. You maybe get anything from a standard Discovery to a purpose built machine competing.
Contrast to what green laning is like:
I almost got a dedicated off roader but having done a full day greenlaning with 90 Dirty Adventures (check them on insta, Ian the owner is great) I realised it isn’t for me as a hobby and I prefer track days.
I’d like a new Defender with a set of ATs for a bit of light green laning in the future though, I still have an interest in the over landing.
I’d like a new Defender with a set of ATs for a bit of light green laning in the future though, I still have an interest in the over landing.
I've done a few trackdays in my own cars, and lots on corporate events over the years.
The cost of trackdays put me off a bit, and I got slowly into offroading. I now have a site vehicle (still sensible on the road, V8 Discovery 2) and a Disco 3 which does greenlanes, and also can tow the D2 on longer journeys (seven sisters twice this year is booked).
I have more fun at 3mph, hanging off the steering wheel, wandering if Ill get up/around something than I ever have on track
The cost of trackdays put me off a bit, and I got slowly into offroading. I now have a site vehicle (still sensible on the road, V8 Discovery 2) and a Disco 3 which does greenlanes, and also can tow the D2 on longer journeys (seven sisters twice this year is booked).
I have more fun at 3mph, hanging off the steering wheel, wandering if Ill get up/around something than I ever have on track
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