Suggestions for off-roaders needed

[mikeyb1987]

Hi all,

I have recently started beating for a local shoot and I’m in need of a 4x4! I’m hoping you all can give me some guidance on suitable vehicles.

For reference, the first few shoots we used my girlfriend’s Q5, which managed fine. If we were to keep it, I would buy a second set of wheels and put some A/T tyres on for the shoot season. I’m fully aware of the importance of having the right tyres for the job. However, she recently sold this as she missed having a sporty car, so I’m on the look out for an off-roader. I have a dog, so the car would be used for (local) days out with the dog, along with other local runs to family as well as for beating days. Ideally, I’d find a car that could do a minimum of 30mpg. I do like a V8 so I sometimes think ‘to hell with it’ and find one and suffer the <20mpg economy

At present I’m in two minds:
1) Buy a cheap 4x4 (around £5k or less) to cover the above duties only
2) Spend more (between £5k-15k)) to cover the above plus also use it for business/seeing clients (the aim being to keep the miles off my other car) and full time winter use.

For the first scenario, I was thinking:
- Suzuki Grand Vitara
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ)
- Toyota RAV4
- VW Tiguan
- Toyota Land Cruiser
- Subaru Legacy Outback
- Subaru Forrester

For the second scenario:
- VW Toureg T3 (2010 -)
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK)
- LR Freelander 2



I’ve discounted the following cars:
- Suzuki Jimny (too small – I’m 6’3”!)
- VW Touareg T1/T2 (reliability)
- LR Disco 3 or 4 (reliability)
- Shogun (economy)

On the last shoot day, we needed to cross a muddy/boggy field entrance and then a climb up the wet grassy field to a meeting point (I was passenger-ing in a Rav4 which struggled with the mud, but it wasn’t on great tyres) and I know access to one drive is via a rutted lane with small rocks. Other than this slight bit of off-roading, all the vehicle will need to cope with is snow in winter. Most of it’s time will be spent on road.

I’m a big fan of the Touaregs, but I’ve read there can be a few electric issues and gearbox with the T1/T2s. The propshaft bearing as a consumable doesn’t bother me. If I decide to go down the route of option 2, I’d probably end up buying a Touareg T3. A Shogun/Land Cruiser are probably overkill for my needs and too compromised for on-road duties.

So, I need help in respect of:
- Have I missed any potential options?
- Have I wrongly discounted some cars?

Thanks

Mike

[PugwasHDJ80]

IF you go with option 2) have a look at WK2 Grand Cherokees- they are just getting to about £!5k ish now (well mine is...)

the overland has air suspension,takes 32 All terrains, has a proper low range, and even has a rear diff lock in addition to traction control (welll it has terrain control like a land rover)

It has proven considerably more reliable than the Disco it replaced, as well as the other 9 landrover products we've owned.

It's a very impressive vehicle.

[Terzo123]

You can get a decent first gen WK grand Cherokee for 5k.

In V8 flavour

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...

3.0 Diesel which performance wise isn't far behind the V8

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2018...

Anything younger than March 06 will also be cheaper to tax.

Edited by Terzo123 on Thursday 24th January 14:55

[300bhp/ton]

mikeyb1987 said:

Hi all,

I have recently started beating for a local shoot and I’m in need of a 4x4! I’m hoping you all can give me some guidance on suitable vehicles.

For reference, the first few shoots we used my girlfriend’s Q5, which managed fine. If we were to keep it, I would buy a second set of wheels and put some A/T tyres on for the shoot season. I’m fully aware of the importance of having the right tyres for the job. However, she recently sold this as she missed having a sporty car, so I’m on the look out for an off-roader. I have a dog, so the car would be used for (local) days out with the dog, along with other local runs to family as well as for beating days. Ideally, I’d find a car that could do a minimum of 30mpg. I do like a V8 so I sometimes think ‘to hell with it’ and find one and suffer the <20mpg economy

At present I’m in two minds:
1) Buy a cheap 4x4 (around £5k or less) to cover the above duties only
2) Spend more (between £5k-15k)) to cover the above plus also use it for business/seeing clients (the aim being to keep the miles off my other car) and full time winter use.

For the first scenario, I was thinking:
- Suzuki Grand Vitara
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ)
- Toyota RAV4
- VW Tiguan
- Toyota Land Cruiser
- Subaru Legacy Outback
- Subaru Forrester

For the second scenario:
- VW Toureg T3 (2010 -)
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK)
- LR Freelander 2



I’ve discounted the following cars:
- Suzuki Jimny (too small – I’m 6’3”!)
- VW Touareg T1/T2 (reliability)
- LR Disco 3 or 4 (reliability)
- Shogun (economy)

On the last shoot day, we needed to cross a muddy/boggy field entrance and then a climb up the wet grassy field to a meeting point (I was passenger-ing in a Rav4 which struggled with the mud, but it wasn’t on great tyres) and I know access to one drive is via a rutted lane with small rocks. Other than this slight bit of off-roading, all the vehicle will need to cope with is snow in winter. Most of it’s time will be spent on road.

I’m a big fan of the Touaregs, but I’ve read there can be a few electric issues and gearbox with the T1/T2s. The propshaft bearing as a consumable doesn’t bother me. If I decide to go down the route of option 2, I’d probably end up buying a Touareg T3. A Shogun/Land Cruiser are probably overkill for my needs and too compromised for on-road duties.

So, I need help in respect of:
- Have I missed any potential options?
- Have I wrongly discounted some cars?

Thanks

Mike

Almost all proper 4x4's will be 25-30mpg cars in diesel trim. V8's or petrols no where close. Some of the small lightweight petrols might be mid 30's.

Having said all that, if you only going to be doing 3000-4000 miles a year in it. The actual fuel cost difference between a V8 and a diesel might be pretty insignificant, so well worth number crunching.



I would say, if you are in the UK, you really ought to consider a Land Rover of some kind while mulling over your choice. There is always great choice in the used market because they are so popular. And this leads to a fantastic independent network of parts suppliers and specialists. Few, if any of the other marques can boast this.



As for which vehicles to look at.


You may want to consider some other points:


-towing, will you want to use it for this?
-hauling, same q
-comfort
-seating capability
-actual amount of off roading



Something like a Gen 1 Rav 4 on some mild AT's would be upto the job of driving into and out of a field. Fairly economical and not a bad steer on the road. But a bit basic, all are pretty old these days, small booth and small back seats. No real towing capability.

Jimny is similar but less good on road, slower and much more off road potential.


At the other end of the scale something like a 5.7 Hemi Jeep Grand Cherokee. Fairly big, good towing, superb off road, comfy, good seating. But not as frugal, and you may be less wanting to get it muddy inside.


There are simply loads of choices however.

[Walter Sobchak]

I’ve had a Landcruiser and various Land Rover models over the years, the Landcruiser never put a foot wrong, built really well, very capable, Range Rovers were hit and miss, had 2 good ones and one terrible one.
If you want a cheap one I do know of an early L322 Range Rover going very cheap-it is a petrol though.
Mk1 Touareg or Cayenne has to be worth a shout too, they’re both very capable off road.
Mk3 Shoguns are pretty good and very cheap too, although they have issues with fuel pumps.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Terzo123 said:

You can get a decent first gen WK grand Cherokee for 5k.

In V8 flavour

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...



Anything younger than March 06 will also be cheaper to tax.

Edited by Terzo123 on Thursday 24th January 14:55

Sorry, you cannot have that one, I am picking it up on Saturday

[Terzo123]

Nice one. If it wasn't for my current V8 I'd have been tempted myself.

I ran a 3.0 CRD for 2 and a half years and it was a great big thing.

[mikeyb1987]

Thanks for the replies/comments.

I didnt realise the WK2s were that cheap and definitely somehting I'll look into if I decide to go down option 2.

To answer 300's questions, I've got no plans/need for towing and the majority of the time, it will be me, my GF and my dog in the car, so don't need a seven seater. A five seater would be handy as both of our other cars are Minis Some creature comforts would be handy and are a factor. I appreciate your comments re economy too. I do like Land Rovers and have many fond memories of dad's Discoveries when I was younger, but reliability horror stories put me off. If I had a good specialist close by, I'd maybe contemplate one, but I don't.

Are Mk1 Touaregs not too bad reliability-wise then? Other than gearboxes and prop shaft centre bearings, are they pretty reliable?

ETA: At around £5k , is a WK Grand Cherokee a better bet than a mk1 Touareg for reliability?

[SlowStig]

Bit of a curveball but have you looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander?

The Mk2 is fitted with the VW PD140 engine (same as the tiguan) but a mitsubishi-derived awd system and is surprisingly good off road (our instructor at a Land Rover experience day raved about them).

A top spec (Elegance) is around 5-6k which has full leather, sat nav, 650w Sound system etc. They do have 7 seats but the rear two fold flat into the floor and give a big load bay, made bigger if you fold the middle row of seats forwards as well.

[blueg33]

We had a Legacy Outback 3.0 petrol. It was pretty good for work on shoots, even better with a tyres marked for mud and snow.

It was also quickish on the road, comfy, well made and thirsty.

Ours making short work of a little snow [the wheel tracks its parked across are ones I made

Edited by blueg33 on Friday 25th January 13:23

[mikeyb1987]

SlowStig said:

Bit of a curveball but have you looked at the Mitsubishi Outlander?

The Mk2 is fitted with the VW PD140 engine (same as the tiguan) but a mitsubishi-derived awd system and is surprisingly good off road (our instructor at a Land Rover experience day raved about them).

A top spec (Elegance) is around 5-6k which has full leather, sat nav, 650w Sound system etc. They do have 7 seats but the rear two fold flat into the floor and give a big load bay, made bigger if you fold the middle row of seats forwards as well.

That is a good curveball! I'll look into them.

Cheers

[mikeyb1987]

blueg33 said:

We had a Legacy Outback 3.0 petrol. It was pretty good for work on shoots, even better with a tyres marked for mud and snow.

It was also quickish on the road, comfy, well made and thirsty.

I do like these. They have deceptively good ground clearance too.

[blueg33]

mikeyb1987 said:

I do like these. They have deceptively good ground clearance too.

Just added a pic of it in the snow. Ours had the fitted plastic boot liner so you could easily take that out and hose it down, ideal for a shoot and muddy dogs

[LimaDelta]

The Outbacks are good, but also thirsty (at least our petrol/auto one was). You are right about the Shogun, mpg low 20's and road manners leave a little to be desired but they really do come into their own in the rougher stuff. More of an old-school 4x4 with a definite off-road bias.

If you are involved in shooting then BASC do some good discounts - I have recently picked up a Hilux and absolutely love it. In no-frills farmer spec it is perfect for me. Quicker and, dare I say it, more refined than her Shogun, half decent OEM rubber on steelies (smooth ride with the smaller wheels too), keeps the dogs and dirty stuff out of the cab, not too thirsty and decent residuals.

[SlowStig]

mikeyb1987 said:

That is a good curveball! I'll look into them.

Cheers

I forgot to add earlier, they do around 35-45mpg depending on driving conditions too.

[300bhp/ton]

mikeyb1987 said:

Thanks for the replies/comments.

I didnt realise the WK2s were that cheap and definitely somehting I'll look into if I decide to go down option 2.

To answer 300's questions, I've got no plans/need for towing and the majority of the time, it will be me, my GF and my dog in the car, so don't need a seven seater. A five seater would be handy as both of our other cars are Minis Some creature comforts would be handy and are a factor. I appreciate your comments re economy too. I do like Land Rovers and have many fond memories of dad's Discoveries when I was younger, but reliability horror stories put me off. If I had a good specialist close by, I'd maybe contemplate one, but I don't.

Are Mk1 Touaregs not too bad reliability-wise then? Other than gearboxes and prop shaft centre bearings, are they pretty reliable?

ETA: At around £5k , is a WK Grand Cherokee a better bet than a mk1 Touareg for reliability?

TBH I quite like the Touaregs, but I'd only want a 5.0 V10 one personally.

Off road they have traction systems which are good, independent suspension all round means they won't be as capable as some others. But for muddy field use they would be fine. Tyres will be important, some mild MT's or aggressive AT's are what you'll be wanting.

As for reliability, I think it's horses for courses really. All cars can and do go wrong. While LR's get a bad rap, I've been around them all my life. My Uncle has a D2 on a Y plate, bought new (2001) and it's only nearly 200,000 miles now. Used on the farm and as a main form of transport. A little scruffy now, but still going strong. Also have friends with a Disco4, L322 Range Rover's, L405 Range Rover Sports. In fact I must know at least 20 people who run Land Rover products and most have done for 20-30 years + and I honestly don't recall any real horror stories at all.

That said, for what you can pick a Jeep Grand Cherokee up for, I'd probably be looking at one of those tbh. V8 for preference, but diesel if not. The latter is still fairly pokey and gives genuinely good economy.

If you want something cheap to try out, have a look at the Jeep KJ Cherokee. Not as plush as a Grand nor as good to drive, but highly capable and practical without being too common.

I'd probably avoid the crossovers or car based stuff. Don't get me wrong I'm a big Subaru fan, but having a proper low range, sensible overhangs and good ground clearance is such a huge advantage off the road.

[ninjag]

mikeyb1987 said:

Are Mk1 Touaregs not too bad reliability-wise then? Other than gearboxes and prop shaft centre bearings, are they pretty reliable?

I was thinking about one of these when I was looking for a new car and it ticked lots of boxes. Reported drive train issues were a bit of a concern for me though. I'm sure to get locking rear diff was an optional extra for the extra off road ability, but easy enough to know by looking at a photo of the centre console.

[Walter Sobchak]

If you’re not too concerned about the fuel economy I can vouch for the mk1 Cayenne Turbo being pretty decent, both on and off road, but 12-14 MPG is all I’ve ever gotten out of it.

[aaron_2000]

The Touraeg is a reliable machine. As with any car, buy a good one and you shouldn't have an issue. The T3 is an absolute fantastic car, pulls hard, car like to drive but very comfy, wafts along nicely on the motorway getting high 30's with ease. Interior has aged very well and it takes punishment. We've got the Escape (base model) but it's got the locking diffs and low range. As standard it has heated seats, sat nav (still very usable today), electric folding mirrors, climate control and DAB. It was £10k with 95k on the clock. Every car has it's faults to look out for, don't dismiss a very good car for that.

[Lofty999]

Don't laugh,but go and try a Dacia duster,they're amazingly good off road and more than adequate on it! I laughed when a mate bought one to use for shooting but it truly goes anywhere.