What 4x4 for upto 4k? XC90 despite poor reliability?
Discussion
Howdy,
A very long-term PH lurker, approx. 15 years, making a first post looking for advice on a full-size 4x4. I have been thinking about this for months, but getting increasingly stuck.
I have tried to lay this out clearly, but it is pretty rambling. Any comments welcome and appreciated!
The goal!
Is the safety of the XC90 so substantially better than the others that it is worth getting despite its questionable reliability?
Context
My big interest in cars is in older stuff. Have grown up around my father's collection: Daimlers, Astons, Heallys, Rileys - Volvos, and Lexuses. I have a TR6 and an 840 Ci, and dream of building a vintage special for VSCC events. Ideally something american-based to really piss them off.
My everyday cars have been Mercedes diesel estates, including around 100k on vegoil. I would love to be swapping my W210 E320 for a BMW 530/535d Touring, but that simply doesn't make sense with our road conditions. And would probably make the 840 redundant.
Original contenders for the 4x4 were a RR Classic - hugely expensive now - or a Jeep Cherokee (XJ) - too old and small to crash.
A very long-term PH lurker, approx. 15 years, making a first post looking for advice on a full-size 4x4. I have been thinking about this for months, but getting increasingly stuck.
I have tried to lay this out clearly, but it is pretty rambling. Any comments welcome and appreciated!
The goal!
- Budget - Upto 4k, and ideally closer to 2.5k. For something automatic and probably diesel.
- Safety - I know enough physics to appreciate that the higher centre of gravity ultimately constrains this, but i am hoping that technology now means there is at least a chance of staying upright if forced to change lane on a motorway at speeds of up to 85mph. A decent chance of surviving contact with the scenery would also be good, and i am open-minded to the possibility that NCAP measures something important; active safety must be better than cars that don't crumple to absorb energy.
- Reliability - I have several other fun cars and am happy working on them. This one, i want simply to work, and live without fear of a horrible garage bill.
- Usage - Will be used by my partner and our newborn to travel around seriously pot-holed country-lanes in Devon, which are often underwater too; bodywork will take a beating on hedges. Will also do slow journeys of up to 200 miles on the motorway. Whilst we currently have snow, this is pretty rare. Around 15k per year, strongly suggesting diesel is best. 7 seats would be good, but are not essential. We aren't driving across fields deep in mud, though could be tempted to get into this!
- Volvo XC90: Makes the greatest claims for safety, and is most popular with my partner. However, i wonder whether these claims are made redundant by the 50:50 chance of the AWD working on a pre-06, thus meaning much of the stability stuff is disabled. This, at least, was the result of a bit poll on the Volvo Owner forum. (And checking prop rotation doesnt guarantee that it is.) Newer ones are considerably more expensive and, given the conditions of our roads, i find the concept of £500 road tax hard to accept.
- Mitsubishi Shogun (V60): How safe is it? Reliability seems good enough to try and overlook the rather down-market image.
- Nissan Patrol (Y61): How safe is it? In old-terms of being strong, it must be. But do stability programmes and crumple zones matter more? (I know they are slow, and that there are some dud 3.0s.)
- Discovery: Only a Disco 2 is in price range - and they always look like they are about to fall over to me. Does the computer programme introduced with these compared to the first generation really get round the laws of physics? Everyone seems to have very different opinions about their reliability.....
- Range Rover: Would be bottom feeding for an L322, especially a diesel. Figure a P38 is too old.
- Toureg: Interior looks nice, but watched one spin in the snow yesterday at about 15mph!
- Landcruiser: I think the Colorado is a bit funny looking, and the Amazon seriously expensive. I know people will say that's because it's what they are worth, but i don't need to tow a JCB. Thus, not convinced they are 2-3x better than the Mitsu or Nissan.
- Korean things: Terracan etc. An almost indefensible emotional disklike - too cheap feeling.
- American things: cheap, but hideous safety.
- Little things: I cannot face driving an HRV, or the other things the those with elderly attitudes park outside bungalows.
- Vulgar things: X5 (though i know it is good). The appalling Cayenne etc are out of price anyway. Worried that the RR is in this category, even if old and dirty and not a sport.
Is the safety of the XC90 so substantially better than the others that it is worth getting despite its questionable reliability?
Context
My big interest in cars is in older stuff. Have grown up around my father's collection: Daimlers, Astons, Heallys, Rileys - Volvos, and Lexuses. I have a TR6 and an 840 Ci, and dream of building a vintage special for VSCC events. Ideally something american-based to really piss them off.
My everyday cars have been Mercedes diesel estates, including around 100k on vegoil. I would love to be swapping my W210 E320 for a BMW 530/535d Touring, but that simply doesn't make sense with our road conditions. And would probably make the 840 redundant.
Original contenders for the 4x4 were a RR Classic - hugely expensive now - or a Jeep Cherokee (XJ) - too old and small to crash.
Honestly if it were me I’d get the Shogun, if you get one in a sensible colour like silver/green/blue without blacked out windows and chrome I don’t think their image is that bad, it just looks like a workhorse 4x4, they’re capable off road, reliable and pretty well equipped as standard, the 3.2 Diesel isn’t the smoothest or fastest thing out there but it works well.
I know what you mean about the Colarado, I’ve got the later shape 120 series Landcruiser which is a bit over your budget and it’s been great, can’t fault it.
P38s are rubbish from my own experience with a family members one.
I’ve had a couple of L322s and I like them, in honesty they’re a nicer place to be than my Landcruiser is but they do have the potential to be a complete moneypit, if you were going to get one I’d go for a 4.4 V8 petrol with an LPG conversion, the BMW V8 runs fine on LPG and it has a much more robust gearbox that doesn’t tend to go wrong than the TD6.
It also isn’t woefully underpowered like the TD6 is, also the difference in fuel economy isn’t that great, you’d get 17/18 out of the petrol and 22/23 out of the diesel.
I know what you mean about the Colarado, I’ve got the later shape 120 series Landcruiser which is a bit over your budget and it’s been great, can’t fault it.
P38s are rubbish from my own experience with a family members one.
I’ve had a couple of L322s and I like them, in honesty they’re a nicer place to be than my Landcruiser is but they do have the potential to be a complete moneypit, if you were going to get one I’d go for a 4.4 V8 petrol with an LPG conversion, the BMW V8 runs fine on LPG and it has a much more robust gearbox that doesn’t tend to go wrong than the TD6.
It also isn’t woefully underpowered like the TD6 is, also the difference in fuel economy isn’t that great, you’d get 17/18 out of the petrol and 22/23 out of the diesel.
Shogun appeals, as reliability sounds really good. However, i can't find anything about their safety. Gonna get an old Autocar to at least look at their stopping distances.
X3 seems a bit small, X5 better value - but worried it would end up being used instead of the 840!
Wondering about a Touareg now - they have problems with propshaft mountings, but that is a cheap fix. The scarier one is the valve chest, but can't find out how common that is....
X3 seems a bit small, X5 better value - but worried it would end up being used instead of the 840!
Wondering about a Touareg now - they have problems with propshaft mountings, but that is a cheap fix. The scarier one is the valve chest, but can't find out how common that is....
Got to be honest, I wouldn’t touch a £2.5-£4K XC90.
You’ve identified the prop shaft issue. You’re also into 163bhp territory, which although is DPF free is a rather underpowered unit for a 2.3t car.
Lots and lots of potential for big bills.
My money would go on a Colorado to be honest with the Shogun a close second. The Patrol is always a good shout too if you can go with the gorky looks. All suitably reliable and rugged.
You’ve identified the prop shaft issue. You’re also into 163bhp territory, which although is DPF free is a rather underpowered unit for a 2.3t car.
Lots and lots of potential for big bills.
My money would go on a Colorado to be honest with the Shogun a close second. The Patrol is always a good shout too if you can go with the gorky looks. All suitably reliable and rugged.
I sell such cars for a living so have a good working knowledge of most of the cars that you mention.
In my opinion if you are really looking at something sub £4K and want to avoid any big bills the most likely candidate would surely be the Land Cruiser Colorado and don't discount the Jap import version badged as a Prado. They really are so well screwed together with no real vices to mention. The shogun would probably come in second for me but honestly they are not in the sale ballpark as Toyota
I have lost a chunk of money on two cars in the last 6 months and both of them were XC90's with auto gearbox issues. It's not even as if they are nice things to drive and at this price point you really would be taking your life in your hands with one of these.
In my opinion if you are really looking at something sub £4K and want to avoid any big bills the most likely candidate would surely be the Land Cruiser Colorado and don't discount the Jap import version badged as a Prado. They really are so well screwed together with no real vices to mention. The shogun would probably come in second for me but honestly they are not in the sale ballpark as Toyota
I have lost a chunk of money on two cars in the last 6 months and both of them were XC90's with auto gearbox issues. It's not even as if they are nice things to drive and at this price point you really would be taking your life in your hands with one of these.
Thanks for all the replies.
Is a Colorado decent? I know they are considerably lighter duty than the (too expensive) Amazon, and thought the Shogun was pretty similar to the Colorado - and slightly newer.
Thinking that this might spend most of its time on wet country lanes and motorways, rather than ploughing fields, i wonder if these might actually be overkill: perhaps the answer is a BMW X5?
Been struck to see that these are actually cheaper than the Volvo. However, do these have a hideous ride? Perhaps not ones with smaller wheels?
Certainly seems that people don't rate the XC90!
Again, thanks for your comments!
Is a Colorado decent? I know they are considerably lighter duty than the (too expensive) Amazon, and thought the Shogun was pretty similar to the Colorado - and slightly newer.
Thinking that this might spend most of its time on wet country lanes and motorways, rather than ploughing fields, i wonder if these might actually be overkill: perhaps the answer is a BMW X5?
Been struck to see that these are actually cheaper than the Volvo. However, do these have a hideous ride? Perhaps not ones with smaller wheels?
Certainly seems that people don't rate the XC90!
Again, thanks for your comments!
I was looking at similar about 2 years ago - similar budget as well. I ruled out the XC90 at the time as I could only find higher mileage examples, same with the Range Rover Sport and the Disco 3.
I had a Disco 2 before (bought on 220000miles for £1k and I had some issues but it also drove us to scotland and back in the snow from the south coast! It had the ACE (active cornering) which works very well and off road is excellent but I fancied something a bit faster.
Despite always saying I hated them and never wanted one - I got a 2005 X5 4.4i and its excellent. Not as good off road as the Disco but can manage a simple lane, is pretty good in the snow and excellent on the road.25000 miles in and nothing major has gone wrong!
I had a Disco 2 before (bought on 220000miles for £1k and I had some issues but it also drove us to scotland and back in the snow from the south coast! It had the ACE (active cornering) which works very well and off road is excellent but I fancied something a bit faster.
Despite always saying I hated them and never wanted one - I got a 2005 X5 4.4i and its excellent. Not as good off road as the Disco but can manage a simple lane, is pretty good in the snow and excellent on the road.25000 miles in and nothing major has gone wrong!
Im being slightly biased because I have one, and you seem to have dissmissed this vehicle already for very vague reasons but the Grand Cherokee 2.7crd is a decent 4x4. £2.5K should buy you a very good example of a WJ, full size automatic with a diesel lump to boot !
6 years ownership, with over 100K on the clock and apart from servicing it has cost me £12 for a packet of O-rings for the fuel lines, £90 for the blender door fix and another £100 for a rebuilt alternator.
I think I need new glow plugs now (£30 for the set) as in the cold weather it took a few turns to start.
It could go bang tommorow, but I feel Ive had my moneys worth out of it so Id have no complaints.
Im not aware of any full size true 4x4 that switches lanes at 85mph like a Porsche, cause they were never designed for that. Well at least one you can buy for under £4K anyway !
WJ's do handle fast motorways better with a bigger ARB at the rear and Bilstien shocks all around which mine has.
Build qulality ? Built when MB owned Jeep at their Damiler factory in Austria I understand. Mines holding up very well, galvinsed body with no signs of rust. I have no compalints against the way they screwed the car together, and I do all the servicing myself.
Like all old cars, the trick is to find a decent example that has been looked after and still expect to spend a little on it each year.
When this Jeep goes, I'll be replacing it with a newer Grand Cherokee.
6 years ownership, with over 100K on the clock and apart from servicing it has cost me £12 for a packet of O-rings for the fuel lines, £90 for the blender door fix and another £100 for a rebuilt alternator.
I think I need new glow plugs now (£30 for the set) as in the cold weather it took a few turns to start.
It could go bang tommorow, but I feel Ive had my moneys worth out of it so Id have no complaints.
Im not aware of any full size true 4x4 that switches lanes at 85mph like a Porsche, cause they were never designed for that. Well at least one you can buy for under £4K anyway !
WJ's do handle fast motorways better with a bigger ARB at the rear and Bilstien shocks all around which mine has.
Build qulality ? Built when MB owned Jeep at their Damiler factory in Austria I understand. Mines holding up very well, galvinsed body with no signs of rust. I have no compalints against the way they screwed the car together, and I do all the servicing myself.
Like all old cars, the trick is to find a decent example that has been looked after and still expect to spend a little on it each year.
When this Jeep goes, I'll be replacing it with a newer Grand Cherokee.
Hi,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'd be tempted by the Jeep myself, but my partner isn't a fan based on their NCAP scores. I've tried to emphasize that this is simply one aspect of things, but will have to compromise on this one. Otherwise she'll notice that the 840 and TR6 probaby wouldn't do terribly well.....
Hope that doesn't offend - or alarm!
Thought i was closing in on the X5, then started looking at "what goes wrong". Seems everything has a long list of people saying "XXXX is the worst thing i ever bought". Shows how people only write on the internet for best of things/worst of things reasons!
Thanks for the suggestion. I'd be tempted by the Jeep myself, but my partner isn't a fan based on their NCAP scores. I've tried to emphasize that this is simply one aspect of things, but will have to compromise on this one. Otherwise she'll notice that the 840 and TR6 probaby wouldn't do terribly well.....
Hope that doesn't offend - or alarm!
Thought i was closing in on the X5, then started looking at "what goes wrong". Seems everything has a long list of people saying "XXXX is the worst thing i ever bought". Shows how people only write on the internet for best of things/worst of things reasons!
At that age and size of vehicle something will always go wrong. I had an 53 plate XC90 which cost a fortune to run (full service history) in its later years. Injectors, glow plugs, alternator, starter motor, 4x4 failure and then it caught fire and died (never found out the cause). Great car when young, but as with all these heavy cars, bits wear out quicker and are more costly to repair/replace and you are in the high mileage diesels and all the inherent problems that go with that. Any big 4x4 of that age will cost you regular big chunks of money to keep roadworthy.
Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff